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Primal diet - Pros and Cons?

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  • #91
    Thank you. Good post.

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    • #92
      My Personal Pros/Cons/Nons:

      Pros:
      -Clearer skin
      -Some weight loss
      -Able to enjoy simple, quality foods
      -More willing to try new foods
      -Able to handle not eating for several hours

      Cons:
      -Increase in hair loss the in shower
      -Increase in visible wrinkles
      -New issues with menorrhea (never had a problem with regularity before primal)
      -Lower libido
      -Increase in binging activity (I'm working on that though, and I think it's a personal problem I've simply ignored in the past. Primal has made me more aware of it)
      -Developed an unhealthy relationship with food and constant stress over what I was eating. I'm working on getting over that and doing what it manageable for me, but it was a hard couple of months of eating-disorder behavior for a while.
      -Constant analysis of weight and diet by others. Seriously, why does weight loss give others the right to critique your body and eating habits? It's like if you lose weight, then you are automatically damaging your body and health. Never mind actually looking at what I eat and the fact that I should be losing weight because I'm an unhealthy size! So ridiculous. Where do people get off telling me I should stop losing weight and eating weird? I'm still slightly overweight, and they should mind their own dang business. Ok, rant over. Sorry. I just hate that. You do your thing and I'll do mine, OK?

      Nons:
      -No change in sleep patterns or amount of sleep
      -No change in how often I get sick (it's still never though, my immune system has always been pretty tough)
      -No change in energy level
      -Basically if I didn't mention it in either list, it didn't change.

      As you can see, my results have been more mixed then others. However, I do fiercely believe in the policy of eating natural foods and balancing meat and veg. It was a while before I understood that not everyone on this forum is a completely reliable source of information, and that what some preach as perfect does not work for others. Took me a long time to learn that, but I'm making progress. Sifting through all of the info out there and deciding what makes sense and works for you personally is key, I think. I'm still tweaking my own eating habits, and I learn something new every day. But I think primal is a wonderful place to start.
      Last edited by fresa; 12-24-2012, 10:13 AM. Reason: repeated myself like a numbskull

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Zach View Post
        Canuck,

        My health declined over several years and several variations of paleo so i cant really give you a typical day. I can give you a timeline of diets and the trends that happened.

        Started out with The Zone because of Crossfit. The Zone actually wasnt to bad and i learned a lot about food quantity from it.
        Started Paleo/Zone after Robb Wolf came on the scene.
        Removed zone aspect and started real Paleo after Wolf left crossfit and stopped pimping Zone.
        Added in fasting, leangains and warrior diet
        Went to VLC paleo because that was THE thing for health and fat loss
        Did strict carnivore for a bit until i felt like i was gunna die.

        That was the general timeline although there were other variations and times where i binged. Also tried a more relaxed paleo like PB afterwords but nothing helped until i abandoned it altogether.

        The general theme was gradually removing carbs, replacing them with LOTS of protein and fat.
        Got it, thanks. So I guess where we were different is that although I experimented with a couple of dips into VLC, I was primarily low to medium carb (75 to 125 gms/day) and as a result did not experience the basically straight protein and fat diet. I couldn't have done the VLC-Straight carnivore thing either, but based on my research that approach does not simulate the current understanding of a paleolithic diet (latest research I've seen indicates paleolithic diets averaged 35% of calories in fat, 35% in carbohydrates and 30% in protein - with seasonal variations). What is your typical diet like now?
        Last edited by canuck416; 12-24-2012, 12:18 AM.
        Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

        https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
          Paleo does have wide room for variety and there is some credence to genetic variance. I think the most easily ascertained information to determine your particular macro predisposition would be to have a look at your amylase copy number:

          Diet and the evolution of human amylase gene copy ... [Nat Genet. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

          So looking at this..... "Starch consumption is a prominent characteristic of agricultural societies and hunter-gatherers in arid environments. In contrast, rainforest and circum-arctic hunter-gatherers and some pastoralists consume much less starch.".....may give you indication of your personal disposition.
          THat's really interesting... And I imagine it would even apply to different families within tribes / societies - depending on what their role was, they probably would have eaten slightly different foods.

          I actually just got a DNA test done, which will tell me exactly what illnesses I'm predisposed to, and what diet I should be on to work with that.

          Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
          Got it, thanks. So I guess where we were different is that although I experimented with a couple of dips into VLC, I was primarily low to medium carb (75 to 125 gms/day) and as a result did not experience the basically straight protein and fat diet. I couldn't have done the VLC-Straight carnivore thing either, but based on my research that approach does not simulate the current understanding of a paleolithic diet (latest research I've seen indicates paleolithic diets averaged 35% of calories in fat, 35% in carbohydrates and 30% in protein - with seasonal variations). What is your typical diet like now?
          Thanks for posting that info Canuck - it was well put. In relation to my own personal diet - I don;t count macros or calories, but I'm currently veering towards a bit of everything: starch, fruit, dairy, meat, fat, and a tiny bit of sugar. Not Paleo as per your definition but I like the forum here
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
            Canuck, the conclusion I'm coming to is that the genetic factor is massive. Each person responds differently to foodstuffs, depending on what they're genetically predisposed to. This is why the Food Pyramid has been such a disaster for people - the one size fits all approach doesn't work, no matter how much "science" there is to back up certain claims.

            It seems to me that people who do best on Primal are those who have issues with glucose metabolism, whereas those who have a genetic predisposition to thyroid problems can't handle low carb.

            I'd love to do a whole separate thread on this...
            Do you think "metabolic typing" tests like this can be used then?
            Metabolic Typing Test, Free Metabolic Type Test, Find out What is Your Metabolic type
            Take a walk on the wild side.

            Comment


            • #96
              Pros:

              It agrees with my philosophy Ė one which took years of reading and living to create. An emphasis on non-polluted foods, especially meat, fruit, and veggies. A de-emphasis on grains, beans, and other foods only necessary in high quantities in parts of the world where people are starving.

              A lower carb approach as compared with SAD. Not necessarily VLC or living in ketosis, but also not consuming 60% of oneís food as carbs.

              Introducing some fat back into oneís diet. My hair looks better.

              A broad approach. Sunlight, exercise, sleep, etc.

              A simple logical approach. Though some people try to make it difficult, itís not rocket science: stop eating processed shit and start eating real food. If youíre not a farmer, 90% of your grocery shopping should come from the outer part of the store (produce, meat, fish, cheese, etc.), and rarely from the aisles where food comes in boxes, bags, plastic bottles, and cans.

              Confirmation that eating one meal a day doesnít make one a freakazoid. Even got a fancy name for it: intermittent fasting.


              Cons:

              Emphasis on eating fat. Since many here come to lose weight, I think the emphasis on fat can cause too much failure. In with this is the idea (which is starting to turn), telling someone (especially someone overweight) that they can eat as much as they want doesnít address the emotional component of eating from an overweight personís perspective. (Note: eventually people do end up reading Markís post on why weight loss isnít happening, and eating too much is mentioned there.)

              Not enough emphasis on the differences between the physiology of men and women. Also, on the differences between the physiology of obese people and that of healthy weight people. Iím not going to be sad if I never do a pull-up. Why? Because as a woman, my upper body strength is less than that of a man, and my weight is distributed lower on my body. Kudos to those that do it, but Iím not going to sweat it. OTOH, I should be able to beat out a man of my weight on a leg press machine.

              The obsession (not Markís, but some postersí) with every macro, vitamin, etc., they put in.

              The attraction the forum has for sugar trolls.


              Nons: I was feeling pretty good anyway, so my health is about the same, though that is observational as I havenít had blood work done in years. I sleep a little bit more, but not because Iíve been able to sleep eight hours in one stretch, but because I take naps.
              "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

              B*tch-lite

              Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

              Comment


              • #97
                I don't see any cons once you understand it. The initial expense is paid back by better health. Sure it can be a social bummer but any restriction is.
                -Transform!

                Groktimus Primal's Experience

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
                  Got it, thanks. So I guess where we were different is that although I experimented with a couple of dips into VLC, I was primarily low to medium carb (75 to 125 gms/day) and as a result did not experience the basically straight protein and fat diet. I couldn't have done the VLC-Straight carnivore thing either, but based on my research that approach does not simulate the current understanding of a paleolithic diet (latest research I've seen indicates paleolithic diets averaged 35% of calories in fat, 35% in carbohydrates and 30% in protein - with seasonal variations). What is your typical diet like now?
                  Yes i think that gradually replacing carbs with fat/pro exacerbated the problem but even from the very beginning i was having inflammation and joint problems that i never had on my previous SAD diet. And these problems didnt go away until i completely dumped most aspects of what makes a paleo diet paleo and reverted to a cleaned up version of SAD.

                  My daily diet now looks like this..

                  Daily:
                  dairy from milk, cheese, butter, some yogart.
                  Fruit from fruit, fruit juice and dried fruit, jams, veggie fruits like tomatos
                  Wheat, white refined, mostly bread, bagels, pizza crust.
                  Eggs

                  Weekly: 3-5 days
                  Meat, red meat mostly, fish and pork occasionally
                  Beans, black, pinto, peas
                  Starches, potatoes all kinds, corn and corn flour, carrots
                  Sugar products, granulated sugar, maple sugar, honey, molasses

                  Avoid almost entirely
                  all other grains
                  nuts/seeds
                  Meats like chicken/turkey, seafood
                  Veggies
                  processed foods like pop tarts, bagel bits, etc anything in a box, can or bag.
                  Chemicals, corn/soy derivatives, gums, fillers, etc.

                  Macros i would guess to be about 50-60% Cho, 10-20% Pro, 20-30% Fat. Almost all my food is organic, pastured, breads contain only a few ingredients. So while from a paleo perspective my diet looks pretty bad, its actually much healthier for me then anything else i have done in the past. Im different from most however that start paleo. I was young and already in good shape. I used paleo to get sub 10% bf and hoped to build muscle but it ended up crippling me.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    The pros for me are numerous.
                    The biggest con for me is the opinionated advice given by those who think that their version, ie; very low carb, is the best approach for everyone.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ToldUzo View Post
                      Do you think "metabolic typing" tests like this can be used then?
                      Metabolic Typing Test, Free Metabolic Type Test, Find out What is Your Metabolic type
                      Interesting, thanks for posting. My responses indicated that I was what they call a "balanced oxidizer". I think the questionaire needs some fine tuning as I often felt my responses would have been inbetween some of the options. But it may well be useful in helping someone understand their personal experience with a Paleo styled diet. Here is the feedback I received:

                      "You are a Balanced Oxidiser of carbohydrates.

                      As a balanced-oxidizer, you can eat a diet which is somewhere in between those of fast and slow-oxidizers.
                      You can go with a mix of proteins, fats and carbohydrate diet. There is no need to strictly restrict your carbohydrate intake"
                      Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                      https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

                      Comment


                      • Interesting, pretty spot on.

                        "You are a Slow Oxidiser of carbohydrates.

                        As a slow-oxidizer, you will feel the best with a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet with low-purine protein sources such as eggs, milk, cheese and fish."

                        I will need to read a bit more, i wonder why they recommend those protein sources. That is exactly what makes me feel better and meats usually make me feel much worse.

                        Comment


                        • Well just googled purines and found this.. What Is Low Purine? | LIVESTRONG.COM

                          Amazingly enough even though i had never heard of this deit, just by trial and error over time i have gravitated to this diet almost exactly. Very interesting.

                          Comment


                          • The more I read and research the hunter gatherer diets, the more obvious it becomes that there was a tremendous variation and seasonality in the human experience depending on where you lived and the climate. This means to me that the human species, in order to survive, is genetically predispositioned to be able to adapt to a variety of food sources and macro nutrient percentages. Therefore variation is probably the key to Paleo success, at various times alternating between VLC,LC, HC and fasting.
                            Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                            https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ToldUzo View Post
                              Do you think "metabolic typing" tests like this can be used then?
                              Metabolic Typing Test, Free Metabolic Type Test, Find out What is Your Metabolic type
                              I got the balanced oxidiser aswell: the ones who should eat everything

                              I'm really interested to see what teh results of my DNA test say though, and whether the diet I'm now gravitating towards is actually the right one for me.

                              Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
                              The more I read and research the hunter gatherer diets, the more obvious it becomes that there was a tremendous variation and seasonality in the human experience depending on where you lived and the climate. This means to me that the human species, in order to survive, is genetically predispositioned to be able to adapt to a variety of food sources and macro nutrient percentages. Therefore variation is probably the key to Paleo success, at various times alternating between VLC,LC, HC and fasting.
                              Possibly. It might be that when you are eating a nutritious diet that is right for your type that you naturally start to make variations guided by how you feel. Some of the older hands are already reporting this, I'm not there at all yet.
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • [QUOTE=YogaBare;1041002

                                I'm really interested to see what teh results of my DNA test say though, and whether the diet I'm now gravitating towards is actually the right one for me.

                                [/QUOTE]

                                What did you take 23 and me?

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