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Primal diet - Pros and Cons?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    Oh, Choco. Your idea that Primal is carb-phobic is so 2009.
    I became afraid of carbs on Primal... waaay back in March 2012 To be fair, this forum is very progressive. If you just read The Primal Blueprint or read some of the blogs Mark promotes it's easy to develop fear of... insulin spikes.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      Oh, Choco. Your idea that Primal is carb-phobic is so 2009. Your list of the alleged ills that are sure to befall any low carbers is just flat out wrong but yet you keep repeating it.
      You're flat out wrong. This forum is very carbohydrate-fearing. I get PM's all the time about it. Just do a search. We've gone through this before. A simple 2 minute search pulled up dozens of recent threads of people scared of the insulin faeries that come to bite you when you eat a potato or fruit. I pasted a bunch in a post when you said the same thing a week or two ago, which you then ignored and never followed up on.

      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      Then you keep banging on the "eat whole real foods" drum as if anyone around here other than the candy and soda swillers even disagreed with you. That is not a new idea. It is the cornerstone of PB. Stop acting like you invented it.
      It's a new idea for a lot of the new members, which outnumber the regulars. Don't deny what is around you.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
        I became afraid of carbs on Primal... waaay back in March 2012 To be fair, this forum is very progressive. If you just read The Primal Blueprint or read some of the blogs Mark promotes it's easy to develop fear of... insulin spikes.
        Excellent.

        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
          Unrefined raw sugar is made from the juice from the sugar cane plant and has trace minerals and nutrients present. Refined sugar is devoid of all nutrients. Doesn't matter, I would recommend pure refined white sugar anyway. Since it doesn't contain iron and is incredibly pure. I thought by refined sugar you meant something else entirely.

          I don't tell people to drink coke, but there is nothing wrong with it. You have a diet soda thread on the first page.
          Pure white and Deadly as Yudkin would say.

          BTW, I don't have a diet soda thread anywhere. There is one on which I and the majority of other posters soundly trounced the idea of Primal including any kind of sodas, diet or otherwise.

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          • #50
            I would recommend someone get the majority of their carbs from fruit anyway. White sugar is just supplemental and medicinal for stress. Not really going to comment about that Yudkin quote.

            Too bad many people seem to have a phobia of fructose too
            Make America Great Again

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            • #51
              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
              Since dropping fatty meats for the most part (I've never really been a big fan) and eating leaner meats, trying to find more gelatinous cuts, eating a lot more eggs and a whole hell of a lot more fruit and starch, my lifts went through the roof, I don't have chills anymore after I eat, I've leaned out quite a bit, have a ton more energy, way stronger libido...it's a night and day difference. Research has pointed me that it's largely due to not enough carbohydrate to balance out all the protein I was eating from all the meat. Too much protein in the absence of carbohydrate promotes an overabundance of glucagon, and it also promotes gluconeogenesis. People act like gluconeogenesis is a good thing around here. It is you essentially forcing your body to break down muscle tissue to make glucose for your brain. It is very stressful and mimics starvation stress. Your body wants to function on its primary metabolic pathway, not be forced to tap into "reserves" and use a secondary metabolic process. In small doses, carbohydrate restriction and slipping into gluconeogenesis/ketosis can be very beneficial, but when it's a typical occurrence your body starts breaking down - which is why people feel great initially, then start feeling like shit 3-6 months in.

              Embrace all food. Eat some meat, vegetables, fruit and starch every day if you can. Just pick healthy, unprocessed, nutrient-dense, whole food sources. You'll drop the weight as long as your calories are under control, and you'll do it without generating tons of stress hormones.
              The first paragraph is great. It talks about what worked for you and I'm happy you found your balance.

              The second paragraph is prescriptive. What if that is not *my* optimal balance?

              And I am so glad that you eventually came around on the idea of calories.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                Pure white and Deadly as Yudkin would say.

                BTW, I don't have a diet soda thread anywhere. There is one on which I and the majority of other posters soundly trounced the idea of Primal including any kind of sodas, diet or otherwise.
                There's nothing deadly about white sugar. It's just empty calories. There isn't anything inherently toxic about it, unlike, say...wheat, corn, soy or canola oil. White sugar is only a problem when it's consumed in a chronic caloric excess - but anything in excess is a problem.

                Displacing whole food calories for white sugar is a bad idea because you're not getting any nutrition along with it. That's why it's better to eat fruit than sucrose - you're getting tons of nutrients with it. But a little here and there isn't harmful for the overwhelming majority, and can even be medicinal for those with metabolic issues or athletes.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  The first paragraph is great. It talks about what worked for you and I'm happy you found your balance.

                  The second paragraph is prescriptive. What if that is not *my* optimal balance?

                  And I am so glad that you eventually came around on the idea of calories.
                  That's why I tell everyone to embrace all food - because they need to figure out how much of each works for them and which foods make them feel best. If they are skipping out on a food group, they have no idea what they're missing. I felt like crap avoiding carbs because I was missing out on 1/3 of the awesome foods on Earth. And a lot of people following a low fat diet are struggling with the same problem. Try everything and adjust accordingly over months or years to find that proper balance.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    I became afraid of carbs on Primal... waaay back in March 2012 To be fair, this forum is very progressive. If you just read The Primal Blueprint or read some of the blogs Mark promotes it's easy to develop fear of... insulin spikes.
                    Mark also wrote the forward for the PHD which is about equal thirds c/f/p.

                    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                    You're flat out wrong. This forum is very carbohydrate-fearing. I get PM's all the time about it. Just do a search. We've gone through this before. A simple 2 minute search pulled up dozens of recent threads of people scared of the insulin faeries that come to bite you when you eat a potato or fruit. I pasted a bunch in a post when you said the same thing a week or two ago, which you then ignored and never followed up on.
                    And a simple search of the front pages shows a half dozen devoted to potato worship. There are also threads about Libertarianism here, lots of them. Does that mean the PB and or Mark are Libertarians?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      That's why I tell everyone to embrace all food - because they need to figure out how much of each works for them and which foods make them feel best. If they are skipping out on a food group, they have no idea what they're missing. I felt like crap avoiding carbs because I was missing out on 1/3 of the awesome foods on Earth. And a lot of people following a low fat diet are struggling with the same problem. Try everything and adjust accordingly over months or years to find that proper balance.
                      But when someone has tried all foods and found the ones that work best *for them* and that doesn't happen to include starches you refer to them as having "disordered eating".

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                        There's nothing deadly about white sugar. It's just empty calories. There isn't anything inherently toxic about it, unlike, say...wheat, corn, soy or canola oil. White sugar is only a problem when it's consumed in a chronic caloric excess - but anything in excess is a problem.

                        Displacing whole food calories for white sugar is a bad idea because you're not getting any nutrition along with it. That's why it's better to eat fruit than sucrose - you're getting tons of nutrients with it. But a little here and there isn't harmful for the overwhelming majority, and can even be medicinal for those with metabolic issues or athletes.
                        Choco, absolutely no disagreement there about fruit. I was just goofing on Derpy's comment about white sugar being "so pure".

                        What is "excess" however varies from person to person. You can handle a substantial amount. Others can't.

                        And , if you are willing to wade through some fairly dense science, this is very interesting about why sugar is NOT benign.
                        Last edited by Paleobird; 12-21-2012, 03:42 PM.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          Mark also wrote the forward for the PHD which is about equal thirds c/f/p.
                          Nice! What PhD is this? I googled Mark Scisson PhD... and ironically, this came up: Low Carb Paleo with Mark Sisson - YouTube

                          Btw, in relation to Yudkin's "Pure, white and deadly" - I spoke to Yudkin's son a couple of months ago. Turns out his dad's book was ignored by the medical communities because his research didn't have enough case studies. I had been under the impression that it was because the sugar industry had spoken out against it.
                          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                          - Ray Peat

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            Nice! What PhD is this? I googled Mark Scisson PhD... and ironically, this came up: Low Carb Paleo with Mark Sisson - YouTube
                            The Perfect Health Diet, by Drs. Jaminet.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              Choco, absolutely no disagreement there about fruit. I was just goofing on Derpy's comment about white sugar being "so pure".

                              What is "excess" however varies from person to person. You can handle a substantial amount. Others can't.

                              And , if you are willing to wade through some fairly dense science, this is very interesting about why sugar is NOT benign.
                              Enjoying this video...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                                Nice! What PhD is this? I googled Mark Scisson PhD... and ironically, this came up: Low Carb Paleo with Mark Sisson - YouTube

                                Btw, in relation to Yudkin's "Pure, white and deadly" - I spoke to Yudkin's son a couple of months ago. Turns out his dad's book was ignored by the medical communities because his research didn't have enough case studies. I had been under the impression that it was because the sugar industry had spoken out against it.
                                Yes, PHD with a big H The video I inserted above is Dr Lustig who read Yudkin's work and set out to see if it was true or not. He does have the case studies to back it up. It's a pretty long vid but well worth it.

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