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Primal diet - Pros and Cons?

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  • #16
    Looking like a jackass from preaching paleo gospal to everyone around me (thank god i didnt start a blog).
    Huh, since when? All I've ever seen you preaching is the anti-Paleo "gospal".

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    • #17
      Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
      Maybe the other negatives could be blamed on you, but the binging seems to be a recurring pattern with people, and I think it's down to the body screaming for what it needs. I started binging when I became veggie (when I was 18). I thought it would get better with Primal but it got worse. My body stopped screaming for protein and starting screaming for carbs. I think if you're binging it's a sign you're missing some macronutrient.
      Yes, it seems to be recurring behavior in a lot of Paleo folks.
      For me personally, I believe it has more to do with the fact that I've always had a huge appetite and is seems to me that my binge eating is triggered by the fact that I still restrict my calories somewhat. Maybe I should experiment with allotting myself 2000 - 2200 calories a day for a while and see how that goes.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Graycat View Post
        Huh, since when? All I've ever seen you preaching is the anti-Paleo "gospal".
        Maybe its just the "looking like a jackass" part that he can't get over, regardless of what he's preaching

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        • #19
          I meant in real life. I will still say whatever i want on the interwebs.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Zach View Post
            Cons:

            Severe debilitating inflammation, beginning of gout.

            Worst sleep of my life, waking up multiple times to pee.

            Gaining fat on a lower calorie diet.

            Alienating myself from social gatherings.

            Looking like a jackass from preaching paleo gospal to everyone around me (thank god i didnt start a blog).

            Screwing up my view on foods and diet.

            Inducing subclinical hypothyroid and all the symptoms that come along with that.

            Pros:

            None come to mind.

            You wont find many lists like mine but that is not because there are none. Most just become disillusioned and dont come back.
            Zach - I know you seem to want to 'show people the light', but seriously? You got all those things from eating whole, healthy foods? No way you can convince me you went from a healthy person to one with hypothyroidism, gout, inflammation, insomnia, etc... from switching from SAD to Primal Blueprint. NO WAY.

            I agree with you on one point: Primal/Paleo doesn't have to be low carb. For people trying to lose lots of weight, low carb is a good tool, and if one wants to get into ketosis for whatever reason low carb is required, but for normal healthy living, low carb is not required.

            I'm only replying here to you because I sense the genuine-ness in you posts. I have seen your posts at 180 Health and maybe somewhere else, you seem to like their approach and that's cool. But to come here and say that following Mark's Primal Blueprint will lead one to hypothyroidism, gout, inflammation, insomnia, etc... is just pure BS.

            Maybe if you started what you considered "Paleo" and ate just meat and eggs for a long stretch of time, over-trained, and ate lots of fried foods--I did all these things in the 80's on Atkins, and was in the worst shape of my life.

            Basically Primal Blueprint and Paleo boil down to a really simple solution: Eliminate most sugar, all seed oils, and refined grains. Everything else is up to the individual to tweak and find what works. Context is so important! Primal Blueprint can work for those coming from fat, skinny, skinny-fat, old, young, healthy but weak, strong but wanting to be stronger, seriously ill, or any other condition...it's not a one-size-fits-all approach.

            I feel bad for you if you tried Primal Blueprint and crashed--but get real, no one is buying your story.

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            • #21
              Leida, I'm totally with you on pretty much all you wrote. Binging - body crying for what it needs. insomnia - I think it's a nutrition thing, not a weight thing. I've been thinner and sleeping better. I'm trying more carbs at night for it. The depression issue - I'm finding fructose and sucrose aren't helping - but white rice is!
              Thank you for this insight - that's encouraging. I am keeping fingers crossed that sleep disruption was low carb rather than lower BF connection.

              About binges - I think that binges are more commonly triggered by Primal eating in people who do not have the happy fat switch. I don't know why. That could be the reason why IF and VLC impact people so drastically different.

              Some people will go without food for 20+ hours and feel no compulsion to eat, and have happy reaction to eating bacon with eggs. I think that showcases right away when they take the diet on. Basically, it's the group that goes: I can eat bacon?! RIGHT ON!!! The other group is the one that asks: "I can eat bacon... erm, Okay. How many apples a day exactly can I eat?"

              So, when some folks try the VLC and fasting, they experience a negative body response most often resulting in binges or increased cravings. For a while I thought that the more drastic departure one takes from a natural inclination, the better the results will be, because you will be shocking the body, and body reacts well to shock. But after initial response the body seem to adapt somewhat, but the mind (or something else?) doesn't.

              As a result fat loss stagnate, but eating behavior becomes disorderly. There is that hunger that cannot be sated, so matter how much fat one consumes - contrary to the other folks' experience I might add! There is fatigue that doesn't go away. Finally, there is depression. I feel bad when people come in with their concerns and get a simplistic response: Eat more fat.

              Sorry, just rambling.
              Last edited by Leida; 12-21-2012, 11:46 AM.
              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Leida View Post
                Thank you for this insight - that's encouraging. I am keeping fingers crossed that sleep disruption was low carb rather than lower BF connection.

                About binges - I think that binges are more commonly triggered by Primal eating in people who do not have the happy fat switch. I don't know why. That could be the reason why IF and VLC impact people so drastically different.

                Some people will go without food for 20+ hours and feel no compulsion to eat, and have happy reaction to eating bacon with eggs.
                I agree - I think everyone's marconutrient needs are unique, and for people who are intolerant to carbs the fat thing is probably a huge metabolic relief, so they actually end up eating less. For others who don't have issues with carbs, a diet lacking in carbs means that they are still craving something.

                I've observed that the people who are less into "dieting" don't have binging issues because they just feed their body what it craves. This is a positive or negative thing - positive if they are in touch with their body's needs; negative if they have food addictions (which mess up your body signals).

                Speaking of which - another great thing about Primal for me is that I'm now in tune with my body, and I trust what it is telling me it needs. Before Primal I would just eat the same thing, every day! (Lentils and rice...!)

                I'll keep you posted on teh sleep thing...
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

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                • #23
                  Otzi, i didnt say that this would happen to everyone, i simply posted my cons from a paleo diet and yes my story is very real. Go check out Matt Stones book "How to live better then a caveman". There are over fifty real life experiences just like mine, all of whom read and followed MDA.

                  And to say that it wasnt the diet, it was the way i implemented it is correct but the reason i am here is to show people the dangers of blindly following advice from gurus and random people who are so enamored with a diet that thy will say anything to protect it.

                  I did this diet years ago when low carb was the holy grail so no i didnt know i could just up my carbs. It was also a time when meat, fat and veg was it and i didnt know i could limit those and eat more starch or fruit. Infact all the guru's specifically said otherwise. I know now exactly what ruined my health and no amount of tweaking an already failed diet would have brought me back. What did bring me back was the supposed neolithic agents of diseases (laff) and avoiding the three pillors of paleo (fat, meat, plant).

                  If mine was just a complete anomaly then i wouldnt be here, but in the years since i have come across literal hundreds of others just like me.

                  In closing, i could care less if the hardcore primals of this forum dont believe me, think im a troll or whatever, i will continue to give advice how i see it. Almost all of my posts are trying to be helpful, im not hating on anyones success, i only offer help to people who seem to not be doing well and are only getting one sided advice.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Zach View Post
                    ...all of whom read and followed MDA.
                    MDA as written by Mark and MDA as spouted off in the forums are two entirely different things.

                    And to say that it wasnt the diet, it was the way i implemented it is correct So???? What are you waiting for? Implement it correctly instead of bashing on it.

                    I did this diet years ago when low carb was the holy grail so no i didnt know i could just up my carbs. It was also a time when meat, fat and veg was it and i didnt know i could limit those and eat more starch or fruit. Infact all the guru's specifically said otherwise. What did bring me back was the supposed neolithic agents of diseases (laff) and avoiding the three pillors of paleo (fat, meat, plant).
                    First if you want to bash on the NAD idea, go bash on Kurt Harris' door.

                    So, you didn't know you could up your carbs and eat some fruit. Now you do. To come here and say that soda, candy, milkshakes and pizza are good for you is still bunk and I think you know it. You just don't want to give in and say, "I did it wrong and I need to start over and do it right." It's easier just to be a bitter troll.

                    Also, it is OK to question forum "wisdom". I questioned it about the prevailing theme at the time I joined which was that your can eat all you want and some magical metabolic advantage is going to make the extra calories go poof. I stood up against that long enough and the "prevailing wisdom" has shifted.

                    Standing there saying, "But I didn't know" is a cop out.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                      First if you want to bash on the NAD idea, go bash on Kurt Harris' door.

                      So, you didn't know you could up your carbs and eat some fruit. Now you do. To come here and say that soda, candy, milkshakes and pizza are good for you is still bunk and I think you know it. You just don't want to give in and say, "I did it wrong and I need to start over and do it right." It's easier just to be a bitter troll.

                      Also, it is OK to question forum "wisdom". I questioned it about the prevailing theme at the time I joined which was that your can eat all you want and some magical metabolic advantage is going to make the extra calories go poof. I stood up against that long enough and the "prevailing wisdom" has shifted.

                      Standing there saying, "But I didn't know" is a cop out.
                      I know you dont like me and my views but you need to lay off the defense and quit twisting my words.

                      1. No MDA as in Marks blog and book was and still is a very large part of it. Yes he has relaxed a bit on potatos, fruit and a few other things but his blog and book are still filled with misinformation and biased speculation. His carb chart and insidious fat gain bulls**t is still around even though he knows its not true. Hes here to sell books and supplements.

                      2. I can post wherever i want, you are not the forum gate keeper, stop acting like it.

                      3. I just said a primal diet would not have helped me get better, you cant add grains, dairy, sugar and call it primal.

                      4. I KNOW that candy, soda, milkshakes, pizza and any other "junk" food can be good for you. Its all about context.

                      5. You can keep calling me a troll but it wont make it so.

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                      • #26
                        Speaking of which - another great thing about Primal for me is that I'm now in tune with my body, and I trust what it is telling me it needs. Before Primal I would just eat the same thing, every day! (Lentils and rice...!)

                        I'll keep you posted on teh sleep thing...
                        Interesting. I think the variety is about the same with Primal for me, I always cooked, but I cook simpler things. But because Primal lead us to supplying meat directly from farms in the area by buying a whole animal, I for the first time in my life actually eat the cuts that I would have never bought in a CW life (taken on its own they are super-expensive). I have also learned to cook roasts, LOL! And dehydrate food. So, I would say I increased my cooking repertoire, even with losing baking for the most part.
                        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Zach View Post
                          I know you dont like me and my views but you need to lay off the defense and quit twisting my words.
                          Actually I'm disliking you less and coming to feel very sorry for you now that you have shared your history with us.

                          1. No MDA as in Marks blog and book was and still is a very large part of it. Yes he has relaxed a bit on potatos, fruit and a few other things but his blog and book are still filled with misinformation and biased speculation. His carb chart and insidious fat gain bulls**t is still around even though he knows its not true. Hes here to sell books and supplements.
                          The eat less carb message IS true for the vast majority of Mark's audience. It wasn't true for you. Again, don't bash. Customize.

                          2. I can post wherever i want, you are not the forum gate keeper, stop acting like it.
                          So there!

                          3. I just said a primal diet would not have helped me get better, you cant add grains, dairy, sugar and call it primal.
                          But you didn't try staying primal but with more carbs, fructose, dairy (which is not un-primal in the first place). You jumped right into, "It didn't work the way I did it so it must be BS."

                          4. I KNOW that candy, soda, milkshakes, pizza and any other "junk" food can be good for you. Its all about context.
                          Really? That's not what you have been saying around here. Repeatedly.

                          5. You can keep calling me a troll but it wont make it so.
                          If you want to have a discussion about HOW to make primal work for different individuals, fine, your input is welcome. If you just want to come around here with a bunch of childish rants about candy and soda being good for you, you are going to get treated like the troll you are being.

                          You decide. Be a voice in the discussion or be someone lobbing irrelevant insults in from outside.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            Actually I'm disliking you less and coming to feel very sorry for you now that you have shared your history with us.

                            Dont do that. I could be like Derp and point out ideas why your diet could be making you health worse but i wont attack you like that even though i know you suffer from some pretty serious stuff.

                            But you didn't try staying primal but with more carbs, fructose, dairy (which is not un-primal in the first place). You jumped right into, "It didn't work the way I did it so it must be BS."

                            Yes i did actually. Look at that, you dont know everything!

                            Really? That's not what you have been saying around here. Repeatedly.

                            Where? Again you are confusing me with Derp.

                            If you want to have a discussion about HOW to make primal work for different individuals, fine, your input is welcome. If you just want to come around here with a bunch of childish rants about candy and soda being good for you, you are going to get treated like the troll you are being.

                            Again, twisting words and ignoring many posts of mine that are sound advice.
                            Sigh.
                            Last edited by Zach; 12-21-2012, 02:18 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Well you and the Derpster have been tag team running buddies on so many threads lately saying, "right on!" to all each other's comments. It would be easy to get your ideas co-mingled.

                              As far as my diet hurting my health, PM me with any scientifically valid info you might have about ketosis being anything but helpful for either epilepsy control or cancer recurrence prevention. Hint. There isn't any.

                              I didn't mean to sound like I feel sorry for you as in, "you poor little thing". More like, now I understand where your anger and bitterness are coming from. So write up your story. Exactly what you did, how you revised it, what you still might have done differently, where and why you think the PB (not forum gurus but Mark) is wrong. People will listen to that kind of input.

                              You and Derpy running around going, "Soda and candy rock and you all are just stupid! Neener Neener Neener!" gets you called a troll for a reason.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                You twist words constantly to further your own agenda, no secret there. I talk about sugar being good for you(raw pure sugar, fruit, etc) yet suddenly I'm going around telling people to eat a bunch of candy.

                                I rarely, if ever, talk about what I personally eat as reference for things I post. You're the only one doing that.
                                Make America Great Again

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