Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Primal diet - Pros and Cons?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
    Clearly Italy isn't filled with a bunch of blood sugar crashing psychos.
    I don't know...this MIGHT explain Berlusconi!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
      I find it highly insulting that when someone says they ate high fat/low carb and that it didn't work for them, your response is 'no one ever said primal was supposed to be high fat' aftter starting a 1,000 page thread on how if primal isn't working for you, it's because you're not eating a high enough percentage of fat.
      Wow. Talk about taking things personally.

      So, it is OK for you to talk about your n=1 but not for me? That thread, if you had bothered to read it, is about how trying to do *ketosis* with too low a percentage of fat and too high protein doesn't work well. It was not about The Definitive Way to do Primal.

      The fact that the thread grew to 1000 pages is because people were interested. No one is stopping you from starting your own thread.

      Comment


      • My understanding is that Primal actually is high-fat by its very definition. Primal is a branch of Paleo that emphasizes fat over carbs, while, for example, Perfect Health Diet is Paleo that emphasizes addition of starches. So, while it is correct imo say that Paleo doesn't have to be high fat, Primal has to be high fat.

        On the other hand, I appreciate the importance of the information on protein vs fat ratio in a VLC.
        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Leida View Post
          My understanding is that Primal actually is high-fat by its very definition. Primal is a branch of Paleo that emphasizes fat over carbs, while, for example, Perfect Health Diet is Paleo that emphasizes addition of starches. So, while it is correct imo say that Paleo doesn't have to be high fat, Primal has to be high fat.

          On the other hand, I appreciate the importance of the information on protein vs fat ratio in a VLC.
          Yeah, I tend to agree. By definition it is a sufficient fat diet . Basically you are given hard numbers for protein and carbs and told to fill in the rest with fat. Then if you choose to ignore the advice on what sort and how often to exercise you might also have to recalibrate the carbs. So when he says "add another 100g of carbs for every hour of intense activity" it very well could be skewed to the moderate or lower fat zone. So it moves away from what we might consider the genetic starting point.

          And then I'm sure there are the outliers.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
            Eat real food with solid micronutrient density and low toxicity in whatever macronutrient ratios ACTUALLY work for you.
            This is a great summation.
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

            Comment


            • Originally posted by KevinM View Post
              Major digestion problems


              My transition was fairly abrupt - and simple. I was already eating my share of fresh or frozen fruits and veggies - carrots, broccoli, baby spinach, romaine lettuce, apples, strawberries, grapes. I continue to eat them. I am allegic to all nuts so I cannot eat any of them. My only real source of fat was canned pacific red salmon. I usually had it daily as a sandwich at work. My plan was to replace the grains (bread, snacks of pretzels, chips and popcorn, morning bowl of shredded wheat or raisen bran) with fats and protein (eggs, chicken, beef, avocadoes, yogurt).

              I am a 6'5" 49 year old man. I have a slender build. My body composition was mostly bones and blubber - I don't have much muscle. Since I am tall, I didn't look to be overweight - but I knew the blubber was there. When I started, I weighed about 215 lbs. 7 or 8 weeks into this program, I now weigh about 195 lbs. The weight came off easily - I also added walking about 5 hours per week.

              By far, the biggest problem for me has been digestion. Before I started the program, I always felt fine. I never get sick. For the first 4 or 5 weeks, I felt fine. Then, my stomach started to feel a bit queezy. It has since gotten worse - sometimes to the point of feeling nauseous. My bowel movements became very infrequent. I rarely felt hungry even when I hadn't eaten for many, many hours. However, when I did eat, I found I could still eat a big meal when I wanted to. My Christmas dinner was as big as any other year. So, even though my queezy stomach didn't feel hungry, it must have been near empty or I could not have eaten Christmas dinner.

              I need to find a solution to this problem soon. Otherwise, I will have to abandon PB. I am assuming one or more of the new foods is not agreeing with me. I am now backing off on the new foods to see if I feel better. Then I will re-introduce each one slowly to gauge the effects on me. It is possible that it is not any specific food that's the problem but rather a diet higher in fat and protein than I am accustomed to. If that is the case, then I hope my body will adjust to this new diet fairly soon. Except for avocadoes, I have eaten all of my "new" foods in the past (as a kid or years ago). I like them all - although avocadoes take some getting used to. Hopefully, this will work out for me. The PB lifestyle makes so much sense to me that I can't believe it cannot work for me. After all, I think I have the same evolutionary history as Grok!!

              Has anyone else experienced my symptoms? If so, how did you address them?

              Regards,

              Kevin
              Hey Kevin,

              Welcome to the forum I also experienced major digestive issues on Primal: my gut couldn't handle the fat / protein / veggies combo. What worked for me was dialing back on the veggies and protein, and adding back in Greek yogurt and starch in the form of white potatoes and white rice. Before I could go four or five days without going to the loo, but now I'm going a couple of times a day.. phew

              If you do a quick search on here you'll find a lot of threads about the same topic - it's not an uncommon complaint when you're diet is centred around fat/protein, which yours seems to be. You'll get lots of suggestions like mg supplements, hot water with lemon, apple cider vinegar etc. Personally none of that worked for me and a few small dietary tweaks were all I needed. Might be the same for you, might not. Experiment and see what works.
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                I can't really argue against anecdotal experiences
                Yet you tried to anyway, and asserted that it was because of SAD vs paleo/healthy diets.

                I agree that teeth and bones are closely related in how they work/grow/function/etc. Good oral hygiene is also important, but in our household, we (sadly) have fluorinated water. We are working to get rid of that. I have no idea about which toothpastes normal people use, but ours is natural, xylitol since I can't find my natural, Nicco one (indian/ayurvedic, probably the best out there!). We also use coconut oil.

                Fluoride, it's a pickle.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                  Yet you tried to anyway, and asserted that it was because of SAD vs paleo/healthy diets.

                  I agree that teeth and bones are closely related in how they work/grow/function/etc. Good oral hygiene is also important, but in our household, we (sadly) have fluorinated water. We are working to get rid of that. I have no idea about which toothpastes normal people use, but ours is natural, xylitol since I can't find my natural, Nicco one (indian/ayurvedic, probably the best out there!). We also use coconut oil.

                  Fluoride, it's a pickle.
                  Just buy a RO system for your house. I bought a great one for under $400.

                  Fluoride in our drinking water is probably one of the most blatent and appalling things our government and big business is doing to "improve health" but is actually slowly killing us.

                  Comment


                  • I'll look into it, zach. I don't own the place, so big additions can't really be done, and it would probably cost more in NZ$. lol

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                      I'll look into it, zach. I don't own the place, so big additions can't really be done, and it would probably cost more in NZ$. lol
                      I dont know about the shipping to NZ but its actually a very simple and compact setup. It taps into any source of water, usually under a sink would be best. Just needs a cold water line and it does the rest. Instead of a regular filter that filters all water, it just sucks off the main line and fills a little 13 gallon barrel and then you can add another faucet for it. Pretty sweet.

                      Heres the one i have.

                      RO-45 Premium Reverse Osmosis System & Drinking Water Filters | APEC Water

                      Comment


                      • I hope you're feeling better soon, Kevin M. But if Primal Paleo doesn't work for you, well then it doesn't work for you and it's ok to tell the blog to go pound Himalayan pink salt.
                        5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

                        Comment


                        • Thanks for the link; I'll look around for one.

                          Comment


                          • Thank you everyone for your responses. I really appreciate it.


                            Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
                            Kevin, what "new foods" are you eating? Any coconut products?
                            I did start to use coconut oil when cooking eggs. Both are new for me. I like the taste of both. But I am leaning toward the eggs as the problem. I have stopped both for now to see how it goes.


                            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            What worked for me was dialing back on the veggies and protein, and adding back in Greek yogurt and starch in the form of white potatoes and white rice.

                            If you do a quick search on here you'll find a lot of threads about the same topic - it's not an uncommon complaint when you're diet is centred around fat/protein, which yours seems to be. You'll get lots of suggestions like mg supplements, hot water with lemon, apple cider vinegar etc. Personally none of that worked for me and a few small dietary tweaks were all I needed. Might be the same for you, might not. Experiment and see what works.
                            Yes, I have seen many others reporting the same problem. There doesn't seem to be any one fix that works for everyone. About a year ago, I tried going vegetarian - it lasted about 2 months. I didn't enjoy the meals too much but I never had any digestion problems. Therefore, I don't think the veggies / fruits are my problem. I think I will try treating fat/protein as a "side dish" with the veggies as the main course instead of the other way around. Fruits will be desert. That will reduce my fat/protein intake. I have never been a starch eater but I will keep this in mind if the problems persist. I did see others in this forum talking about full fat Fage yogurt. I have tried that and, with blueberries added, it is wonderful. I hope I can continue to eat that!!!


                            Originally posted by oxide View Post
                            I hope you're feeling better soon, Kevin M. But if Primal Paleo doesn't work for you, well then it doesn't work for you and it's ok to tell the blog to go pound Himalayan pink salt.
                            Thank you. But it is strange. Last night, I had left overs consisting of a hot turkey sandwich on bread with gravy, corn, stuffings and a small salad. I then had pie and ice cream for desert. Not exactly a primal meal!! I don't normally eat a meal like that. It was good - and I felt much better after eating it. It makes me think my ancestors did not evolve on Earth but were really visitors from Mars!! Even with this problem, I am not yet ready to give up PB. It makes too much sense and I do enjoy my meals more with additional fat/protien. Maybe I overdid it with fat / protein. I will reassess after another week to see how I feel with reduced fat / protein.

                            Comment


                            • Plenty of us, Earth-dwellers, feel much better when they eat more carbohydrates and starches than the PB specifically recommends. That is why even in the whole food movements there are so many various approaches: from whole foods proper to primal, paleo, perfect health diet, sonoma... you name it. The only thing all nutritionists and health gurus seem to (some extent) agree on is that it is not (very) harmful to eat (some) vegetables.
                              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by KevinM View Post
                                Thank you everyone for your responses. I really appreciate it.




                                I did start to use coconut oil when cooking eggs. Both are new for me. I like the taste of both. But I am leaning toward the eggs as the problem. I have stopped both for now to see how it goes.




                                Yes, I have seen many others reporting the same problem. There doesn't seem to be any one fix that works for everyone. About a year ago, I tried going vegetarian - it lasted about 2 months. I didn't enjoy the meals too much but I never had any digestion problems. Therefore, I don't think the veggies / fruits are my problem. I think I will try treating fat/protein as a "side dish" with the veggies as the main course instead of the other way around. Fruits will be desert. That will reduce my fat/protein intake. I have never been a starch eater but I will keep this in mind if the problems persist. I did see others in this forum talking about full fat Fage yogurt. I have tried that and, with blueberries added, it is wonderful. I hope I can continue to eat that!!!




                                Thank you. But it is strange. Last night, I had left overs consisting of a hot turkey sandwich on bread with gravy, corn, stuffings and a small salad. I then had pie and ice cream for desert. Not exactly a primal meal!! I don't normally eat a meal like that. It was good - and I felt much better after eating it. It makes me think my ancestors did not evolve on Earth but were really visitors from Mars!! Even with this problem, I am not yet ready to give up PB. It makes too much sense and I do enjoy my meals more with additional fat/protien. Maybe I overdid it with fat / protein. I will reassess after another week to see how I feel with reduced fat / protein.

                                Could be a gut flora issue. Including probiotics may help. Some people report "die off" symptoms when they eliminate detrimental items. Its along the lines of those little buggers don't like you taking away their food supply so they make life difficult until you kill them all! OK thats the metaphorical version, but it works.

                                Also when you eat mainly fat and protein its quite normal to not have as much waste. It's not that your guts slow down. Its actually that there isn't as much debris (soluble and insoluble fiber) for the bacteria to ferment and expel from your colon.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X