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Primal diet - Pros and Cons?

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  • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post

    *This 150-300 grams/day is the range I have been eating in the past 6 months to lose the extra fat I gained on Primal, as well as to heal the other health problems I developed eating that way.



    I don't follow the PHD exactly either; neither they or Mark advocates sugar, which I use liberally. However, PHD suggests eating a POUND of safe starches and a pound of fruits and sugary vegetables. That is VASTLY different than Mark's approach, which instills fear and phobia of insulin spikes.
    Interesting, so you eat a lot of sugar and have increased your carbs significantly, are you working out a lot? How are you getting your sugar - candies, white sugar, honey? Are you eating potato chips, popcorn, pasta, rice? Obviously everyone is quite different and its fascinating that you are getting good body fat reductions on a higher carb diet. Do you track calories and keep your calorie count in the fat loss range? It would be interesting to see what you eat in a typical day, perhaps you could take a few moments and outline your daily diet...Thanks
    Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

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    • Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
      Interesting, so you eat a lot of sugar and have increased your carbs significantly, are you working out a lot? How are you getting your sugar - candies, white sugar, honey? Are you eating potato chips, popcorn, pasta, rice? Obviously everyone is quite different and its fascinating that you are getting good body fat reductions on a higher carb diet. Do you track calories and keep your calorie count in the fat loss range? It would be interesting to see what you eat in a typical day, perhaps you could take a few moments and outline your daily diet...Thanks
      Sugar is probably the best fat loss supplement you could use. Nothing ramps up metabolism better. The problem is usually it is combined with fat if the form of something tasty, sugary foods alone can get pretty boring, like an all fruit diet.

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      • The problem you are going to encounter here is that a healthy SAD diet IS high carb (sugar) and low fat. Most if not all of the people here have had problems losing weight or some kind of health issue because of that kind of diet.
        Depression Lies

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        • Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
          The problem you are going to encounter here is that a healthy SAD diet IS high carb (sugar) and low fat. Most if not all of the people here have had problems losing weight or some kind of health issue because of that kind of diet.
          You certainly dont have to eat a SAD diet to eat high sugar/low fat.

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          • Aaauuughhhh!

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            • Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
              The problem you are going to encounter here is that a healthy SAD diet IS high carb (sugar) and low fat. Most if not all of the people here have had problems losing weight or some kind of health issue because of that kind of diet.
              Unfortunately, most people here automatically equate "high carb" with a diet of mostly bread, oatmeal, beans and cake rather than potatoes, cassava, fruit, honey and rice. I hope people can see one is not like the other. Or I continue to hope, anyway.

              Whoops, wrong account.
              Last edited by Tinathetaco; 12-26-2012, 11:41 AM.

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              • Originally posted by canuck416 View Post
                Interesting, so you eat a lot of sugar and have increased your carbs significantly, are you working out a lot? How are you getting your sugar - candies, white sugar, honey? Are you eating potato chips, popcorn, pasta, rice? Obviously everyone is quite different and its fascinating that you are getting good body fat reductions on a higher carb diet. Do you track calories and keep your calorie count in the fat loss range? It would be interesting to see what you eat in a typical day, perhaps you could take a few moments and outline your daily diet...Thanks
                When I was eating low carb/high fat, when I was active I was often FORCING myself to go to the gym and take long walks because I knew I should. But sometimes I didn't even have the energy to get off the couch to make my meals.

                Now that I'm eating high carb, I do hot yoga 5x/week, do weights at the gym 2x/week, and try to take walks when I have the time. However, the big difference is that now I never feel like I'm forcing myself to move around, i have the energy and I don't feel completely depleted afterward. Likely, I have
                more spontaneous activity now, like I'll spontaneous do a sprint from my car to a store or have a dance party while I'm washing dishes; this increase in activity is difficult to quantify.

                No potato chips! My golden rules are: no gluten, no dairy, no soy/legumes, no HFCS, no omega 6 crap oils. As a result, it is almost impossible to ever eat most candy, junk food, processed food, etc... I use organic cane sugar and some honey.

                In a typical day, I might eat something like this:

                Breakfast:
                3 rice cakes with jam (or gluten-free oatmeal with coconut milk, raisins, and 2 spoons of brown sugar)
                1 spoonful of raw, local honey
                1 Coffee or Tea with 2 spoons sugar

                Lunch:
                Pasta or Rice Dish (100-120 grams of either, dry, which comes to about 80-100 grams of carbs)

                Dinner:
                Boiled/Baked peeled potatoes
                Some type of meat or fish

                *I don't eat the same thing everyday. Some days I eat a lot of fruit, some days I eat more low-fiber vegetables in the form of squashes, onion, peppers. Some days I have liver or eggs or a can of sardines. Somedays I'm less hungry and might skip a meal.

                When I first switched to this macro breakdown, I made it a point to keep my calories consistently high (at least 2,000) so I could try to reset myself. At first I gained a few pounds, but they eventually disappeared without any intervention.

                When I had been eating lower calorie/low carb for a while, I noticed that the longer I did this, the more easily my body stored fat at lower and lower calorie levels. The more I decreased my calorie levels, the less energy I had and the less active I was. Having to measure everything on a scale really made me hyperaware of every calorie, and I really couldn't relax and enjoy my food because I was always trying to measure and limit it. At one point I couldn't eat over something like 1,200 without starting to gain fat, which was the breaking point for me.

                Now, I never think about calories, and I sometimes try to add some extra sugar or a spoon of coconut oil somewhere during the day if I'm worried my calories are too low for the day, because my appetite is actually much lower now than it used to be on primal.
                Last edited by BestBetter; 12-26-2012, 12:12 PM.

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                • Originally posted by Tinathetaco View Post
                  Unfortunately, most people here automatically equate "high carb" with a diet of mostly bread, oatmeal, beans and cake rather than potatoes, cassava, fruit, honey and rice. I hope people can see one is not like the other. Or I continue to hope, anyway.

                  Whoops, wrong account.
                  This is true. I admit, I am defensive because I get frustrated when people come around here claiming that refined sugar products (I do lump bread products in that category) are really not so bad. The "everything in moderation" bs is what got a lot of people here in trouble to begin with.

                  I ate higher carb (truth be told, mostly from cookies) over this past weekend and ended up leaning out. I am going to be experimenting with higher carbs in the forms of vegetable starches and fruit. Hopefully, fructose malabsorption is not an issue for me.
                  Depression Lies

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                  • Originally posted by Zach View Post
                    Sugar is probably the best fat loss supplement you could use. Nothing ramps up metabolism better. The problem is usually it is combined with fat if the form of something tasty, sugary foods alone can get pretty boring, like an all fruit diet.
                    I have found this to be true for me; by focusing on consuming actual sugar (and not HFCS, which is what's in almost all junk food and candy), the sweet taste of the sugar is not very appealing because it doesn't have the mouthfeel of say a candy bar or a piece of cake. I think it's really the rancid industrialized seed oils and processed GMO flours that often accompany sugar which are the real culprits in gaining fat and wrecking health.

                    When I made the switch to eating higher levels of sugar, I had a serious talk with myself that it wasn't an excuse to binge on a bunch of garbage. In the beginning, I was eating a whole container of Trader Joe's meringues, because I wanted to keep my calories high and that was one of the few things I could find with actual sugar and no HFCS.

                    But the appeal wore off quickly, and I have a box of them sitting in my kitchen cupboard that I really can't bear to think of eating because sugar by itself really isn't THAT enjoyable once the novelty of having something forbidden wears off.

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                    • See I've never understood the concept of ramping up your metabolism with extra sugar. Why? Wouldn't the most efficient metabolism be the most effective in an evolutionary sense? Why would you ramp up metabolism (and presumably metabolic waste). Do you really think getting your resting heart rate into the 90's is advisable....Ah, well.

                      Heck saw something just recently that the average American eats an additional 20 teaspoons of sugar a day! Thats just the white refined crap...not even counting fruits or veggies.

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                      • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        See I've never understood the concept of ramping up your metabolism with extra sugar. Why? Wouldn't the most efficient metabolism be the most effective in an evolutionary sense?
                        My guess to this is that calories were a scarcer commodity that required the majority of the day's work to obtain...so in that case, I could see why having a lower metabolism would be important for survival. But we live in a very different world, and this way of functioning doesn't apply anymore.

                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        Why would you ramp up metabolism (and presumably metabolic waste). Do you really think getting your resting heart rate into the 90's is advisable....Ah, well.
                        For me, ramping up my metabolism means more energy, not feeling cold all the time or having my hair fall out because my precious little energy is being redirected toward only the bodily processes that are needed for survival.

                        Personally, a resting heart rate in the 90s doesn't feel good to me, either. But as someone with chronic fatigue issues and low blood pressure/low resting pulse, having a resting heart beat in the 70s feels much better (which is what I have after ingesting starches/sugars. If I'm sitting around for a few hours and haven't eaten/drank anything, my pulse goes back to 60.)

                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        Heck saw something just recently that the average American eats an additional 20 teaspoons of sugar a day! Thats just the white refined crap...not even counting fruits or veggies.
                        Funny thing is that I bet of that 20 teaspoons, 18-19 is corn syrup and only 1-2 are actual real sugar. Imagine how much overly-processed rancid omega 6 seed oils and GMO monster flour they're probably eating along with it!

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                        • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                          Hmmm...this response seems hypocritical. One minute you're the queen of telling everybody to reduce protein, keep carbs low, and eat a huge percentage of calories from fat. When someone says this didn't work for them, you flip-flop and start pretending that no one ever said to eat high fat. Which is it?

                          You are joking, right? Even you can't be this ignorant.

                          I don't follow the PHD exactly either; neither they or Mark advocates sugar, which I use liberally. However, PHD suggests eating a POUND of safe starches and a pound of fruits and sugary vegetables. That is VASTLY different than Mark's approach, which instills fear and phobia of insulin spikes.
                          You're joking, right? Even you can't be this snotty.
                          In that thread I was relating my personal n=1. I think ketosis is awesome. It works for me. I never told anyone else that they should do it too. That does not Primal dogma make. You relate your n=1 of needing to eat higher carbs and not doing well on higher fat. Does that make Primal a place filled with fat fear and phobias and ruled by high carb dogma?

                          Yet Mark wrote the forward for the Jaminets. He obviously has no problem with their approach.

                          The fears and phobias may have been invented and fostered on the forums, but they are not in the PB. As Neckhammer pointed out, low(ER) carbs and high(ER) fat may indeed be the default setting for human diets. These levels are only low and high however as compared to the SAD.

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                          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            I never told anyone else that they should do it too.
                            Really? Come on, now!

                            Originally posted by Paleobird View Post

                            I think where a lot of Primals go wrong is in embracing all those yummy primal meats so much that we overdo the protein portion of the equation and thereby knock ourselves out of ketosis. Then, still trying to hold down the carbs, we get stuck in what Dr. Peter Attia of The Eating Academy calls the "Zone of Misery", not enough carbs to run on glucose but too much protein to allow for efficient metabolism of fat. Stuck in the middle and generally feeling like crap.

                            So, to Barbara and anyone else who wants to know "what works for weight loss", the answer is , "a lot of things can work including the lean protein, limited calorie approach that I took". If the question is what works while making you feel invincible, the answer is ketosis.
                            Even Mark doesn't advocate ketosis for more than a day or two, which makes your advice to people who were failing on Primal the most extreme advice on the forum.
                            Last edited by BestBetter; 12-26-2012, 01:13 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                              Really? Come on, now!
                              That was telling someone who wanted to do ketosis how to do it right without adverse effects. It was not saying it worked or was advisable for everyone.

                              Meanwhile you preach the gospel according to Ray Peat as if it were The Answer for Everyone. Talk about hypocrisy.

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                              • see? religion

                                i see methodists and baptists and CoC, maybe catholics, all fussing about how to get to heaven
                                beautiful
                                yeah you are

                                Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                                lol

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