Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Resistant Starches

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    I couldn't eat a green banana unless it was cooked thoroughly. They give me awful heartburn.

    Comment


    • #92
      I accidentally undercooked rice noodles once. I was more concerned about it causing gastric distress, but it turns out it was an RS hack. Sweet

      Comment


      • #93
        Does this mean that leftover rice (eaten the next day) is better than just-cooked rice?

        Comment


        • #94
          Cooked green plantains also contain some RS, just less than raw dried. Thoroughly cooked green Cavendish bananas probably don't contain much.

          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
          I accidentally undercooked rice noodles once. I was more concerned about it causing gastric distress, but it turns out it was an RS hack. Sweet
          And "al dente" (chewy) is the traditional way to cook noodles that every gourmet chef and mother in Italy seems to stress. Is it just coincidence that the traditional way has more RS?


          Leftover rice would contain more RS than just-cooked. Think of the old nursery rhyme that was mentioned earlier--pease porridge cold ... in the pot, nine days old -- why did they do that and even commit it to memory in a rhyme? Was everyone from more than a century or so ago crazy and we've since figured out better ways of doing things with our canned peas, limp noodles, refined breads, and crispy french fries and potato chips, or did they get something right before based on countless generations of experience and tradition?

          Even my own Irish grandparents never cooked their potatoes into French fries (though they did make potato pancakes), didn't eat potato chips (although the drying apparently boosts the RS of chips some), and didn't cook their bacon to a crisp (they left it limp). Instead, they usually boiled, simmered or baked their potatoes and my grandfather used to sample some raw slices of potatoes while they were being peeled for boiling or stewing. "Irish stew" (aka "stew" in Ireland LOL ) is a very traditional Irish way of cooking potatoes (since the introduction of the potato, before that it was parsnips, turnips, etc.). In just 3 generations, much of that tradition was lost. Now I'm restoring some of it (though I still occasionally have a small amount of fries or chips ) and so far benefiting as a result.


          I just remembered another way my grandfather showed me to cook a potato. The fireplace fire had gone low. He put in a raw potato and piled hot coals and ash over it. I thought that was gross, but didn't question it, because my grandfather was rarely wrong about anything. Some time later he took it out, brushed off the ash and gave me some to try. That was the best tasting baked potato I'd ever had, even though there was still a little ash on it. I should try that again some day when I have access to a fire.

          I just also realized that I've been falling asleep more easily and quickly lately, almost involuntarily (which can be a wee problem if I've got some things left to do, though it's probably good healthwise to go to sleep earlier). Otzi, is this one of the sleep improvements that people report from RS? If so, I find that it's a good sign when one experiences multiple improvements one wasn't even aiming for when trying a new therapy. The blogger Seth Roberts talks about this.
          Last edited by Paleophil; 08-14-2013, 05:23 AM.
          Originally posted by tatertot
          Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
          "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

          "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by picklepete View Post
            I know, these threads are dangerous. I just made some cassava pancakes for dinner.
            I am intrigued. What else goes into it other than yuca?

            Comment


            • #96
              I started experimenting with some potato starch and I'm adding it to my kefir now (2 table spoons) after a work-out. Hard to compare results as my sleep and libido were already very good! (been a PHD'er for a while now)

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by howardroark View Post
                I am intrigued. What else goes into it other than yuca?
                Not much. I blend half a medium root (boiled), 2 eggs, baking powder, salt, then after pouring the batter I sprinkle some other stuff (scallions, mushrooms, ginger). No idea if this has any RS though.
                37//6'3"/185

                My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by FlyingPig View Post
                  I started experimenting with some potato starch and I'm adding it to my kefir now (2 table spoons) after a work-out.
                  You realize you are putting these guys out of business, right? UCAN Fitness

                  A more optimal carbohydrate source for athletes would have a low osmolality with a slow “time-released” glucose profile and low insulin impact to avoid the spike and crash phenomena and extend maintenance of blood glucose.
                  SuperStarch represents an innovative solution that overcomes the negative qualities of existing carbohydrate sport drinks.
                  These guys made a sports drink with special high RS corn starch. It only costs $2 per serving and they recommend 2-3 servings a day. Potato starch, by comparison, costs $5 for a one month supply, and does the EXACT SAME THING.

                  SuperStarch is not a sugar or fiber. Chemically it is a complex carbohydrate or starch that is completely absorbed. SuperStarch is an extremely large glucose polymer with a molecular weight between 500,000 and 700,000 g/mol. Since molecular weight and osmolality are inversely related, SuperStarch exerts a very low osmotic pressure in the gastrointestinal
                  tract and is rapidly emptied from the stomach into the intestines. Therefore SuperStarch is gentle on the stomach and highly palatable. In the intestines, SuperStarch is semi-resistant to digestion, but is eventually completely absorbed in to the bloodstream, thereby giving it a slow time-released absorption profile. Because of the low glycemic impact, there is also little
                  stimulation of the hormone insulin following ingestion.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Otzi, I haven't really followed the RS debates, so maybe I should just ask you: would adding RS after a work-out make me more sleepy than usual? I'm doing quite an intensive military press kettlebell programme ("Rite of Passage" with a 24kg bell), I'm making very good strength gains and today I actually fell asleep in the afternoon after drinking my kefir/potato starch shake. That was unexpected as I normally never sleep during the day. I'll see if the same thing happens on Saturday, when it's my "heavy" work-out, and check if there is a correlation with RS, which I have probably been lacking previously.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FlyingPig View Post
                      Otzi, I haven't really followed the RS debates, so maybe I should just ask you: would adding RS after a work-out make me more sleepy than usual? I'm doing quite an intensive military press kettlebell programme ("Rite of Passage" with a 24kg bell), I'm making very good strength gains and today I actually fell asleep in the afternoon after drinking my kefir/potato starch shake. That was unexpected as I normally never sleep during the day. I'll see if the same thing happens on Saturday, when it's my "heavy" work-out, and check if there is a correlation with RS, which I have probably been lacking previously.
                      That's hard to say. I think the connection with RS and sleep, for me at least, was a steady supply of glucose through the night. I was having this cycle of jolting awake at 3am every night. A plausible explanation was that I was running low on glucose and mechanisms were kicking in to supply glucose from liver stores which requires some adrenalin and other hormones. Since doing the RS thing for the past 6 months or so, I sleep like a baby. I can't say it ever makes me tired in any way.

                      Since you haven't been following the RS debates, I'll give you the Cliff Notes version:

                      RS acts mainly as a prebiotic, supplying gut flora with food and creating an environment more hospitable to beneficial bacteria, like the ones found in yogurt and fermented foods. RS also has the effect of regulating blood glucose, ie. taken alongside a high GI meal, it will blunt the effect of the high GI food and cause a much lessened spike in BG. Taken regularly it will lower FBG to a manageable level but not to the point of hypoglycemia.

                      RS can be found in real food, however, usually at quite a cost in calories and carbs. Supplemental RS can cheaply be found in the forms of potato starch, tapioca flour, plantain flour, dried green plantains, and green bananas. Potato starch and tapioca flour are nearly 80% RS by weight, making 1TBS equivalent to 8g of RS. A good target is 20g/day, but amounts more than 40g are still healthy but will cause excess fartage in most people.

                      The only real arguments are: Do I need RS if I'm on a low carb diet? Are gut microbes all they are cracked up to be?

                      Studies show increased vitamin uptake, glucose control, increased satiety, decreases in LDL and trigs, and a more robust colon; however, nearly all the studies use the words 'may' or 'possibly', so you can infer you what you want from the studies.

                      I think the reason that RS is undersold in health circles is because there isn't much money to be made...no artificial source of RS on the market is as potent or as cheap as the starches I mentioned earlier.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                        That's hard to say. I think the connection with RS and sleep, for me at least, was a steady supply of glucose through the night. I was having this cycle of jolting awake at 3am every night. A plausible explanation was that I was running low on glucose and mechanisms were kicking in to supply glucose from liver stores which requires some adrenalin and other hormones. Since doing the RS thing for the past 6 months or so, I sleep like a baby. I can't say it ever makes me tired in any way.
                        OK, was just wondering if you had heard of a RS/sleep connection during the day (sleepiness after a work-out). The RS was probably irrelevant and more to do with the fact that I had a massive PWO meal (pound of lamb, cabbage and pound of potatoes), was hungry again two hours later, then had the kefir/starch shake and then fell asleep Fasting and feasting, I love it.
                        Kefir was a big revelation to me and, together with potatoes, is a valuable addition to my primal diet. As I said I'll experiment a bit with the potato starch.

                        Comment


                        • @FlyingPig: Yes, eating a pound of cooked potatoes (containing lots more easily-digested starch than RS) is way more likely to cause short-term sleepiness than RS. RS is spoken of working in terms of overnight, rather than within a couple hours, because it has to descend all the way to the colon. One major reason I've been experimenting with RS is because more easily digestible "safe starch" tends to have that sort of deleterious effect on me too (daytime post-meal sleepiness, lethargy, aches and pains, lower extremity edema, etc.), whereas RS doesn't (instead, since consuming RS I have been getting daytime alertness and clear-headedness, easily falling asleep at night, sound sleep--though it seemed like I was already sleeping rather soundly--and improved blood glucose readings).

                          @Otzi:

                          Originally posted by otzi View Post
                          You realize you are putting these guys out of business, right? UCAN Fitness

                          These guys made a sports drink with special high RS corn starch. It only costs $2 per serving and they recommend 2-3 servings a day. Potato starch, by comparison, costs $5 for a one month supply, and does the EXACT SAME THING.
                          What about their claim that Superstarch is different from RS and is actually digested in the stomach, just slowly so that it doesn't spike the BG?

                          Originally posted by otzi View Post
                          That's hard to say. I think the connection with RS and sleep, for me at least, was a steady supply of glucose through the night.
                          But if RS is mostly converted to SCFA, then isn't it more likely due to a steady supply of anti-inflammatory SCFAs to the brain (via brain mitochondria), rather than glucose? Here's my speculative chain of causation, based on utterly bogus brief Googling (and inspired in part by my bizarre fascination with mitochondria, which Peter of the Hyperlipid blog seems to share, and he could probably put together a better chain of causation):

                          Mitochondria love SCFAs, which help keep them alive and promote mitochondrial biogenesis and also induce autophagy (repair mode) and inhibit inflammation, which keeps the little mitochondria beasties from dying:

                          > Mitochondrial Preference for Short Chain Fatty Acid Oxidation During Coronary Artery Constriction, 2002, http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/3/367.full.pdf

                          > Impact of Short- and Medium-Chain Fatty Acids on Mitochondrial Function in Severe Inflammation. - ResearchGate

                          > Short-chain fatty acids induced autophagy serves as an adaptive strategy for retarding mitochondria-mediated apoptotic cell death

                          > Autophagy promotes tumor cell survival and restr... [Cancer Cell. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

                          Healthy brain mitochondria break down glucose into energy for the brain:

                          > Glucose Oxidation by Brain Mitochondria, 1955, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00859-0091.pdf

                          Which tells the brain that all is well and it's OK to rest and repair as soon as needed and for as long as needed:

                          > The energy hypothesis of sleep revisited, 2008, The energy hypothesis of sleep revisited

                          > Stanford researchers suggest how sleep re-charges the brain, 1996, Stanford researchers suggest how sleep re-charges the brain

                          > The Top 6 Ways to Improve Your Sleep Using Food by Dave Asprey, The Top 6 Ways to Improve Your Sleep Using Food

                          When glycogen becomes depleted (such as via long-term excessively LC diets), "glycogen content falls first in areas with the highest metabolic rate," such as the brain. (Brain glycogen re-awakened, 2004, Brain glycogen re-awakened. [J Neurochem. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI) Thus, insomnia is one of the early problems that chronic LCers report: Low carb insomnia page, http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread92634.html

                          The brain and the brain mitochondria are saying "Wake up! Must get glucose (fruits/honey) or animal starch (liver, eggs, shellfish) or resistant starch (raw or low-cooked RS-rich tubers or legumes) so we can survive! Get out there, hunting and gathering to get it, or wake up your wife so she can get it! Why aren't you listening to us? Have you been listening to zero carb proponents again?"
                          Last edited by Paleophil; 08-14-2013, 04:26 PM.
                          Originally posted by tatertot
                          Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                          "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                          "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                          Comment


                          • Paleophil, I know exactly where you are coming from, it's what got me hooked on this subject, too. RS is such a convoluted subject, which is why it gets scant attention. Each of it's individual pieces are not that impressive, but when the dots are connected you really see the beauty in it.

                            SuperStarch, the miracle sports drink made from a proprietary blend of hydrothermally treated corn starch, is simply cornstarch that has been repeated heated and cooled forming retrograded RS at about 30-50% by weight. The reason it's packaged as a sports drink is the same reason we mix potato starch with cold liquids. If you've looked at their website, they never mention Resistant Starch. I think this is because they know it's a hot-button term. I did a bit of digging, and found that they are using the term SuperStarch through licensing with a German company called DFEPharma, the people that hold the trademark and patent for SuperStarch SuperStarch® 200 starch excipient SuperStarch was originally intended to be used in the drug-making industry as a binder in pills, and is sold in 50 pound bags. Read through the info on SuperStarch from DFEPharma and you see it is nothing more than pregelatinized cornstarch, but only partially pregelatined so it contains both RS and regular starch.

                            Why is this important?

                            Resistant starch has the ability to lower the Glycemic Index, or Glycemic Load, of any carb it is eaten alongside if it is in a substantial percentage.

                            This contributes greatly to the glucose blunting effect and also second-meal effect. http://images.abbottnutrition.com/AN...on%20Table.pdf

                            The magic in second-meal effect is only now coming to light:
                            Originally, this effect was attributed solely to prolonged glucose absorption. However, according to a newer study, the improvement is a result of the physiological properties of the carbohydrates that are typically found in LGI foods, not simply a diminished glucose response.1 Two major properties of carbohydrates affecting glucose tolerance after a second meal are presented below:

                            Prolonged Glucose Absorption:
                            A possible mode of action is that slower postprandial carbohydrate absorption minimizes postprandial glycemia, which, in turn, minimizes postprandial insulin levels. Reduced insulin levels should decrease the likelihood of glucose falling to below fasting levels and triggering the formation of ketone bodies and the release of nonesterified fatty acids (NEFAs). The net result is enhanced glucose uptake by peripheral tissues.

                            Colonic Fermentation:
                            More recent data indicate that colonic fermentation, via short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs) can also play a major role in promoting the second-meal effect. Fermentable carbohydrates stimulate glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1). Although a direct connection between colonic fermentation and carbohydrate metabolism has been established, 12 a detailed mechanism is not yet available. Likely, such a link is mediated through SCFAs that are produced as a result of colonic fermentation. A growing body of animal data indicates that SCFAs mediate GLP-1, an incretin hormone that is secreted by enteroendocrine L cells located in the distal small intestine and colon in response to food intake.13 According to Drucker et al,13 this hormone plays a key role in the regulation of carbohydrate metabolism in three ways: 1) It promotes increased beta-cell mass in the pancreas by stimulating beta-cell proliferation and by inhibiting apoptosis. 2) It helps to control glycemia by acting on glucose sensors, inhibiting gastric emptying, reducing food intake, and decreasing glucagon secretion. And, 3) it strongly stimulates insulin secretion in patients with type 2 diabetes.

                            So, when I talk of potato starch being equal to SuperStarch, and RS helping with sleep due to increased glucose availabilty, it is by these mechanisms.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                              1) It promotes increased beta-cell mass in the pancreas by stimulating beta-cell proliferation and by inhibiting apoptosis. 2) It helps to control glycemia by acting on glucose sensors, inhibiting gastric emptying, reducing food intake, and decreasing glucagon secretion. And, 3) it strongly stimulates insulin secretion in patients with type 2 diabetes.

                              So, when I talk of potato starch being equal to SuperStarch, and RS helping with sleep due to increased glucose availabilty, it is by these mechanisms.
                              Optimal Health Cave • View topic - Resistant Starch
                              With SuperStarch, I assume it is about 50/50 RS and regular starch, meaning there is starch available and RS to attenuate it.
                              Resistant Starch
                              The difference between UCAN®, which is described as a superstarch, and resistant starch is that UCAN® does digest very slowly and therefore supplies a low and steady release of blood sugar over time. This allows increased energy and mental alertness, while still allowing fat burning, as was seen in the study on the cyclists. But it does contain some calories.
                              How this reads to me is that RS doesn't itself provide a steady supply of glucose to the brain through the night. Instead, other carbs must be consumed with the RS and the RS just slows the delivery of the glucose to the brain, stretching it through the night, so one doesn't burn through it quickly and wake up at 3AM when it's gone, with the brain signaling that it's time to go gather some more food.

                              Superstarch is not the same thing as RS, because SS apparently also contains more easily-digestible starch (your guess was 50/50). Thus, RS alone is not an alternative to SS unless you also add some easily-digestible starch (such as mixing some unmodified potato starch in a sports drink, fruit juice or honey).

                              Do I have that right?
                              Originally posted by tatertot
                              Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                              "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                              "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                              Comment


                              • LC diet book authors Volek and Phinney advocate some foods rich in resistant starch (and also ordinary starch):

                                "Once keto-adapted, depending on your metabolism and goals, you may be able to incorporate slow release sources of carbohydrate such as root vegetables, legumes, or UCAN's SuperStarchTM." (The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance: A Revolutionary Program to Extend Your Physical and Mental Performance Envelope, Chapter 6 - Carbohydrate, by Jeff S. Volek, Stephen D. Phinney)
                                Originally posted by tatertot
                                Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                                "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                                "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X