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  • #76
    Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
    Yep... FL, with it's diverse population is also very Carb diverse!

    I pop the sweet ripe plantains in the oven, no oil needed... Delicious.

    And yes... they do fit into my HFLC WOE just fine as occasional treats.
    LOVE them!
    I never thought to bake them! That sounds way easier than frying them. I'm making some tonight, I'll give the oven method a shot!

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Happy Paleo Girl View Post
      I never thought to bake them! That sounds way easier than frying them. I'm making some tonight, I'll give the oven method a shot!
      Just as a note, I do this on a lightly greased glass dish... they do become VERY sticky.
      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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      • #78
        I'm resurrecting an old thread here. I was recently at an immunology conference and saw a pretty amazing presentation showing that butyric acid is a (the?) major inducer of cells in the gut that control immune responses. The data they showed was that the effect was the result of specific bacteria in the gut producing the short chain fatty acids that caused induction of these cells.

        The data is not yet published or I would post a link. It was presented by one of the top immunologists in the world, so it was pretty exciting to see that butyric acids isn't just an essential food for the colonic cells, but for the immune cells in the gut as well.

        Now, the question remains, what is the best dietary source for bacterial production of SCFA and what happens if a person doesn't have the right bacteria for this?
        Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

        http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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        • #79
          Otzi, have you had any more findings regarding good vegetable sources?
          Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

          http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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          • #80
            That's interesting with regards to the immune connection, but does make sense.

            There has been a long term association between fibre intake and colon cancer, but that is ofcourse in the background of SAD diet types.

            I think everyone is too focussed on RS, there are manny different fibres in the process and I think the main point is that most of the primal foods contribute a good mix of fibre to maintain gut health, if your microbiota is balanced, but nevertheless increasing intake of a variety of fermented foods may be of significant value to ensure a healthy balance.

            Couple of papers I found, for those interested enough to read through discussiong various aspects of SFA's & fibre intake.
            http://www.bmj.sk/2007/10808-06.pdf
            http://physrev.physiology.org/content/81/3/1031.full
            http://arno.unimaas.nl/show.cgi?fid=16226
            The last one is a thesis and discusses some of the immune implications, it is 168 pages though.
            "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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            • #81
              Jammies - There are two awesome discussions of RS going on right now.

              Here: Resistant Starch - Friend or Foe? | Digestive Health InstituteDigestive Health Institute

              And here: Resistant Starch: 4-Letter Word? Nope. Goal: Create Mashed Potatoes A Diabetic Can Eat Every Day | Free The Animal

              I would LOVE to see you enter the conversations!

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              • #82
                I'll give you a brief description of what's going in these conversations, but I don't really want to get into it too deep here.

                Basically, people are supplementing RS, using things like green banana flour, buckwheat flour, and potato starch to get between 15-30g/day of RS. They are reporting exceptional blood glucose control, better cholesterol numbers, better sleep patterns, increased satiety, and relief of digestive problems like GERD.

                Some critiques and possible contraindications are for people with SIBO or SIBO-like conditions or other gut dysbiosis resulting in increased pathogenic gut microbes because the RS could inadvertantly feed the bad guys as well.

                Lots of self-experimenting and links being provided on both blogs every day.

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                • #83
                  These are all foods that reportedly can contain significant amounts of resistant starch, depending on how they are prepared (the RS content is higher the more raw the food). This is intended to be an inclusive, rather than exclusive list, so many are not considered "Paleo."

                  Banana, green (especially plantains)
                  Beans, (ex: white beans)
                  Breadfruit
                  Buckwheat Flour
                  Cattail root
                  Chickpeas
                  Corn
                  Konjac root
                  Lentils
                  Oats
                  Peanuts
                  Peas
                  Poi (taro)
                  Potato
                  Rice
                  Rye
                  Sago
                  Sweet potato
                  Tapioca (manioc, cassava)
                  Wheat
                  Yam (ex: lesser yam)

                  Any others?
                  Originally posted by tatertot
                  Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                  "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                  "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    This looks like another food likely rich in RS--the enset (ensete) or false banana plant:

                    "false banana" ... is a traditional staple crop in many parts of densely populated south and south-western Ethiopia. Records suggest that Enset has been grown in Ethiopia for more than 10,000 years. ... The root of the plant provides food in the form of starch, the stem is used to produce a coarse fibre, and the leaves are fed to cattle, whose manure is in turn used to fertilise the plant. Although Enset is a protein-poor crop, its deep roots give it a greater resilience to drought than other cereal crops and consequently, a greater degree of food security to those who grow it.

                    ...

                    Manual processing using traditional bladed wooden instruments
                    The major food products obtained from the Enset plant are kocho, bulla and amicho, all of which are simple to produce once the plant is harvested, and can be stored for long periods without spoiling. Kocho is a bulky, chewy, fermented starch bread which is made from a mixture of the decorticated leaf sheaths and grated root. Combined with Ethiopia's spicy kitfo minced meat, it is now a required dish in virtually all restaurants in the country - Addis Ababa included. The best quality Enset food is bulla, obtained mainly from fully matured plants. Bulla can be prepared as a pancake, porridge and dumpling. Amicho is the boiled Enset root. The root is boiled and consumed in a manner similar to that of other root and tuber crops.

                    (Kocho (Qocho), borcham.com/?q=Kocho)
                    To serve ensete as food a woman first removes it from the pit, wraps the mash in a handful of the stringlike fibers from the stem of the plant, and squeezes out the liquid content. She then kneads and sifts it into a fine flour. Transformation from raw material to food is now complete, and the finished product is referred to as wasa. It may be served as raw, sour-tasting flour mixed with vegetables, made into small pancakes, or occasionally baked into bread."

                    (Humane Development: Participation and Change Among the Sadama of Ethiopia By John H. Hame, p. 18)
                    Originally posted by tatertot
                    Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                    "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                    "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Paleophil View Post
                      This looks like another food likely rich in RS--the enset (ensete) or false banana plant:
                      Uh-oh, we're talking about resistant starch again...somebody must be watching Dr. Oz! Just Kidding.

                      I have never heard of false banana before, but every time I turn around, there is another tropical fruit that is high in resistant starch. Breadfruit, palm, bananas, plantains, taro, cassava, macadamias, and yams to name a few.

                      I am pretty well convinced that resistant starch was an ancestral staple and modern diets provide none of it. When it's included in the diet, it is shown to increase beneficial gut microbes, which in turn produce things like serotonin and Vitamin K2. Maybe Weston Price was right about activator X, which turned out to be K2, but wrong about it's source (grass-fed butter).

                      I sometimes read the International Paleo Facebook page, and recently someone submitted this:

                      [R]esistant starch becomes fat (short-chain fatty acids), not glucose.

                      Resistant starch was likely also consumed by Paleolithic peoples via raw, and after the advent of cooking, briefly-cooked, tubers and legumes, such as the wild African tubers, legume tubers and groundnuts that some African semi-tribal peoples continue to eat to this day. RS is more Paleo than the allegedly “Paleo” demonizers of all starch. If they bothered to read the research, they would know this (see Sex Differences in Food Preferences of Hadza Hunter-Gatherers, link to epjournal.net and “Early Humans Skipped Fruit, Went For Nuts [and legumes, roots, insects and meat],” link to news.discovery.com).

                      As Paul Jaminet said, his Perfect Health Diet that includes certain starchy foods is more Paleo than “Paleo” (at least the most common conception of it). Heck, even the Inuit traditionally ate wild “Eskimo potatoes” (often raw) and even Loren Cordain allows people following his approach to eat tubers who are active and not trying to lose weight, and Boyd Eaton allows both tubers and legumes. Stefan Lindeberg has studied people who thrive on a tuber-rich diet (The Kitava Study, link to staffanlindeberg.com). Unfortunately, since the days when these early pioneers were most influential, an extreme anti-starch and often anti-carb fringe has formed. In contrast, even Jimmy Moore at times acknowledges that some people thrive on Kitavan-type diets rich in starchy foods.

                      I’m LC myself, yet resistant starch so far appears to have lowered my fasting, random and postprandial blood glucoses and I appear to handle it better than fruits (though I do eat some fruits too). Haven’t noticed any GI benefits yet, though.
                      I think that resistant starch seems to be a very important part of a good diet for it's prebiotic effects above and beyond those of the regular plant fibers we are used to hearing about.

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                      • #86
                        This thread has made me crave potatoes with vinegar... Time to get some resistant starch!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Fried plantains are tasty but green bananas? Ugh. Ever have a red banana when it's not ripe yet? (Firm and still has tinge of green) Even worse! Astringent.



                          I think bananas taste best when they are going brown.…and then you freeze them. To each his own I guess…

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                          • #88
                            Yeah, this is definitely a "to each his own" kind of thing. I like a slightly green banana. Probably too "slight" to be really starchy, but it is a perfect balance of flavor and texture.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by otzi View Post
                              I sometimes read the International Paleo Facebook page, and recently someone submitted this:
                              That was a comment of mine at the Free the Animal blog, Otzi. If it was posted on Facebook, would you please share the direct link? I checked that IPM page and couldn't find it. I was curious if it generated any comment. The blog context is key and it might seem overly harsh outside of the context. It was in response to Richard reporting that an IPM Facebook comment about RS had been censored out. I hope it's not an indication of future IPM behavior.


                              Other varieties of green bananas (such as the common Cavendish) can also be fried (not just plantains), and in the Caribbean, Central America and Africa they often are (or boiled or added to soup/stew), though plantains tend to be preferred for cooking bananas (probably because of the high starch content).

                              In one way the fact that RS-rich foods like green plantains and green bananas are not super-tasty foods for many (though in cooked form they tend to be rather well liked by those who frequently eat them, but usually not the best of the best) actually makes the health claims more believable. It's easy to eat tasty foods and there's a big incentive to want to believe that our favorite super-yummy foods are healthy. One needs good reason to eat foods that one doesn't find particularly tasty. Many folks don't like liver, for example, but it's widely recognized in Paleo circles as especially healthy. Just because some think liver or other foods are yucky doesn't make them unhealthy or verboten.

                              Originally posted by StupidFatHobbit View Post
                              I think bananas taste best when they are going brown.…and then you freeze them. To each his own I guess…
                              Amen. My favorite banana for taste is a thoroughly blackened raw plantain (see How To Ripen Plantains Into Fruits Tastier Than Most Bananas - YouTube). Unfortunately, fully sweetened plantains/bananas spike my BG pretty badly. So most of the time I now eat thoroughly dried green plantains. Drying gets rid of the astringency and slippery coating. I let some of them ripen a bit for sweetness and variety. Someone recommended thinking of them as a cracker and I do find that helps. I even add sea salt or raw cheese at times (I know, both added salt and cheese are not regarded as "Paleo" or healthy by some--so sue me ). It's early in my experimentation with this, so I may decide not to eat them in the future. I don't know what the future holds.

                              Unmodified potato starch is rather tasteless (although I find it slightly sweet, oddly enough), so one can mix that into some liquids and foods without affecting taste. Some people use it as a gravy thickener instead of the more popular wheat flour or corn starch, but to minimize loss of RS to heat, one would add it after cooking, instead of during.

                              RS seems to be pretty ideal for a LCer like me, given that some sugary foods badly spike my BG and certain cooked "safe starches" tend to give me aches and pains and lower extremity edema (even when they don't spike my BG). I'm also hopeful that RS may some day help improve my insulin sensitivity and carb tolerance to the point that I can eat plenty of fully ripe plantains if I wish. Fingers crossed.

                              I see that there are some Ray Peat fans in this forum, and I do keep my eyes peeled for tips from Ray Peat, Danny Roddy, Denise Minger, raw vegans and others who report thriving on lots of sugary fruits/foods. I find that people who eat a lot of a certain type of food tend to know a lot of little-known information about it. For example, I learned from raw vegans that super-ripe raw plantains could be consumed and that they are very tasty. For whatever reason, RS so far seems to be helping me more with health metrics than tips from our fruit-loving friends have. Different things seem to work for different people.

                              To each his own indeed. YMMV and I'm not telling anyone what to do, just sharing and learning.
                              Last edited by Paleophil; 08-13-2013, 04:53 PM.
                              Originally posted by tatertot
                              Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                              "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                              "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by howardroark View Post
                                This thread has made me crave potatoes with vinegar... Time to get some resistant starch!
                                I know, these threads are dangerous. I just made some cassava pancakes for dinner.
                                37//6'3"/185

                                My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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