Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Resistant Starches

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Thanks, will try the silver noodles in my attempt at Pho etc. My recipes say to cook noodles separately so the soup doesn't get cloudy, seems like that would be leaving some good starch in the throwaway water.

    Also, what a great site! Love their selection of spices too.

    In fact, just looking at their gluten free flour mix. Looks like it might fit into this RS plan:

    Garbanzo Bean Flour
    Potato Starch
    Tapioca Flour
    Sorghum Flour
    Fava Bean Flour

    What do you think?
    Last edited by dancermom09; 11-16-2013, 03:33 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dancermom09 View Post
      Thanks, will try the silver noodles in my attempt at Pho etc. My recipes say to cook noodles separately so the soup doesn't get cloudy, seems like that would be leaving some good starch in the throwaway water.

      Also, what a great site! Love their selection of spices too.

      In fact, just looking at their gluten free flour mix. Looks like it might fit into this RS plan:

      Garbanzo Bean Flour
      Potato Starch
      Tapioca Flour
      Sorghum Flour
      Fava Bean Flour

      What do you think?
      A mixture of several of those would be cool. I think it's nice to change things up every once in a while.
      Find me on Facebook!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tatertot View Post
        I like to try to get 40g of RS from all sources most days. If I'm eating a lot of dried plantains, beans, and potatoes, then I figure I'm good to go. On days when I maybe only have a green salad and a serving of rice, I will take 4TBS of potato starch.
        Would you care to take us through a couple days or meals you would commonly have? I guess it sounds to me like people are eating tons of plantain chips and raw beans and potatoes.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RittenRemedy View Post
          Would you care to take us through a couple days or meals you would commonly have? I guess it sounds to me like people are eating tons of plantain chips and raw beans and potatoes.
          Almost every day I eat beans, rice and/or potatoes. There are ways of preparing these that really increases the RS value. I pre-cook rice and beans in big batches and freeze them in serving-size packages. Potatoes I boil up about 3 pounds every weekend and use for dinners during the week.

          So, today I had some fresh, grated homegrown purple potato hash browns for breakfast/lunch (cooked in bacon fat), and some mung-bean starch noodles with dinner. The hashbrowns were cooked fast and still somewhat raw in the center to preserve a bit of RS. The mung-bean noodles are a good source of RS on their own, not sure of the exact content.

          In addition to that, I ate about 1/2 a dried plaintain and 2 of my no-bake cookies that have about 1/2TBS of potato starch per and a few raw oats.

          I normally make dried plantains about once every two months, I use 5 or 6 big plantains and they last me maybe 2 weeks. I'd make them more often, but the commissary where I shop rarely has them. Same for the no-bake cookies, we make a batch once a every couple months just for something different.

          I keep a jar of potato starch at work, and several days a week I will have a cup of yogurt with 2-3TBS of potato starch mixed in for lunch.

          I keep a jar of potato starch (labelled 'FLOUR' lol) on the kitchen counter. Sometimes I'll make a mashed banana/blueberry/cocoa powder/coconut milk concoction and put some potato starch in there as well. In the summer, we make batches of home made ice cream with added potato starch.

          I don't track RS intake obsessively, just like I don't count carbs or calories...I just make getting RS easy. If I go a day or two without, it's no big deal. If I go on vacation, I don't bring potato starch, but try to look for food that is high in RS. We went to Hawaii last year and I bought a beautiful bunch of green apple-bananas at a road-side stand and ate a couple every morning on the lanai watching the sunrise and drinking Kona coffee.

          Hope that helps.
          Find me on Facebook!

          Comment


          • Perfect thanks. Spuds a lot easier... Ironic spell check... Sounds a lot easier when translated to actual meals.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tatertot View Post
              There are no real guidelines. In every study that looked at it, they found that nobody could process much over 40g at one time. Anything over that amount gets passed out undigested. So there is no reason to ever take more than 40g (roughly 4TBS) at one time.

              Also, the average intake for people on westernized diets is about 5g per day, and that is not enough to do any real maintenance of gut flora.

              I like to try to get 40g of RS from all sources most days. If I'm eating a lot of dried plantains, beans, and potatoes, then I figure I'm good to go. On days when I maybe only have a green salad and a serving of rice, I will take 4TBS of potato starch.

              I really don't have a definitive answer, but I am pretty confident that we should try to get 20-40g per day from all sources. I just look at it as keeping gut microbes gainfully employed while attempting to get the RS as far into the large intestine as possible.

              If you were to just eat very small amounts, like found on SAD, the RS gets burned up very fast as soon as it hits the large intestine. When you eat a whole bunch at once, it floods the intestine, forcing fermentation further down the path.

              One study I saw mixed psyllium husk with potato starch and found that combination to be more beneficial than either alone. So, I do that, too, sometimes. The psyllium holds lots of water and the fast burning potato starch allows the psyllium to travel even further than it normally would. Psyllium is not RS, but mucilage--a different type, but equally important prebiotic.

              Hope that helps! Bottom line--eat a lot of RS, but anything over 40g at one time is wasted.
              What would be the most noticeable difference / benefit with your guidelines?


              From London England UK

              Comment


              • No bake cookie recipe? I would like to get some RS into my kids
                Home birthing legal mama. Unschooler. Jewish Intactivist (step away from the foreskin!). Full-term breastfeeder. Kettlebell padawan.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by RittenRemedy View Post
                  Perfect thanks. Spuds a lot easier... Ironic spell check... Sounds a lot easier when translated to actual meals.
                  Eat lots of potatoes and rice, especially if it has been cooked and chilled before reheating and eating. It would still be hard to get more than 10g/day in this fashion, so if that's your only option, I'd add in some potato starch, too. 2-4TBS/day.

                  Originally posted by Ryancarter1986 View Post
                  What would be the most noticeable difference / benefit with your guidelines?


                  From London England UK
                  The benefits are at the gut microbe level. Almost everyone eating a Western Diet has poor gut flora which causes intestines to not work as well as they should. As far as RS in the diet, every human has a requirement for the short-chain fatty acids produced by gut microbes. Without SCFA in ample amounts, the gut uses different fuels and that starts a chain reaction that's hard to recover from. I think we are perfectly capable of running for a long time without RS, just like we can survive indefinitely on zero carb. But, to give ourselves the best possible chance of great health, we need to feed the gut microbes food that results in SCFA. A gut flooded with RS results in a pH and overall environment that favors the good microbes and not the bad. Once the good microbes are in control it sets the stage for long-term good health.

                  Some things that are supposed to happen in the gut, but often do not because these are all mediated by microbes living there:

                  - Conversion of T4 to T3
                  - Production of neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin
                  - Production of vitamins like K and B fractions
                  - Absorption of minerals and vitamins from food
                  - Elimination of heavy metals and toxins from food
                  - Other Stuff



                  Originally posted by Muppet View Post
                  No bake cookie recipe? I would like to get some RS into my kids
                  I know the feeling. I started making these to get RS into my wife! I know lots of people whose kids love these:

                  In sauce pan add:
                  1/4 cup of butter
                  1/4 cup of cocoa powder
                  1/2 cup of milk (or coconut/almond milk)
                  1 cup of sugar (I use coconut sugar)

                  Bring these to a boil for about 30 seconds while stirring, remove from heat.

                  Stir in:
                  1/2 cup peanut butter (I use almond butter)
                  1 cup raw oats
                  1 cup coconut flakes
                  Splash of vanilla

                  Stir until cooled to under 120 degrees (won't take long).

                  Sprinkle in 1/2 packet of unflavored gelatin (1tsp?) and 1 cup of potato starch.

                  Stir well. If it is still really gooey at this point, add more oats, coconut or potato starch until it is a firm dough-like consistency.

                  Spoon the mix onto wax paper lined cookie sheets and chill. After a few hours, you can transfer them to a suitable container. I like to keep them in the fridge or freezer.

                  If you make these into 32 individual cookies, each cookie will have about 6g of resistant starch. No idea what calorie count is, but it wouldn't take much to figure out.

                  Also, the options are endless to modify this recipe: raisins, stevia instead of sugar, coconut oil instead of butter, sesame paste instead of peanut butter. More oats, more coconut, no oats, no coconut, no peanut butter. Make them however you like!

                  Anyone want my recipe for high RS rice pudding?
                  Last edited by tatertot; 11-17-2013, 11:45 AM.
                  Find me on Facebook!

                  Comment


                  • Thanks tatertot.

                    Still don't understand few things.

                    Regarding cooking / cooling / reheating potatoes & rice.

                    So I cook as normal , cool , in the fridge , next day , reheat.
                    Now I know I'm not getting high amounts but it's a start and bonus than just eating straight hot from oven ?

                    Then follow ur other protocols with green bananas/ plantains & PS .

                    What's the most common effects when starting with tbsp of PS ?


                    From London England UK

                    Comment


                    • Tater, My sister was turned off by the flatulence she got from 1 TBS of potato starch. I'm thinking of suggesting to her to try a one teaspoon dose and mix it with cultured buttermilk (which has been more tolerable for me than kefir or yogurt for some reason) or other probiotic of her choice.

                      I'm puzzled by my better luck with cultured buttermilk than kefir or yogurt. The only difference I'm aware of is that butter is removed from buttermilk, yet I haven't noticed significantly bad effects from butter, though maybe I haven't been paying enough attention to that possibility.

                      Lately I've been noticing that I need less P5P (a bioavailable form of B6) supplementation to achieve dream recall and keep the dreams pleasant and non-chaotic and maintain the improved levels of short-term memory recall, mental clarity, etc. that P5P has been providing. I also noticed that my urine color was looking better somewhow. I guessed that both of these phenomena might be due to increased production of B6 and other B vitamins and nutrients in my body by the bacteria that eat the RS. I did some googling and found you and others reporting similar things in the comments at Resistant Starch: 4-Letter Word? Nope. Goal: Create Mashed Potatoes A Diabetic Can Eat Every Day | Free The Animal

                      There was even a study linked to by Ilise that supports this connection:

                      B-group vitamin production by lactic acid bacteria--current knowledge and potential applications.

                      I suspect that RS-eating gut bacteria were an important evolutionarily advantage to our primate ancestors that shifted to the savanna from the jungle--enabling them to continue to obtain important nutrients from their gut bacteria during times of scarcity or intense competition when little beyond underground roots and tubers and scavenged brain and marrow was attainable and that these foods may have been important in supplying the necessary resources for the development of larger brains, particularly the butyrate. [Edit: some of the butyrate from RS is converted into beta-hydroxybutyrate (a ketone, not the same as butyrate, a fatty acid), as well as a Peatarian fave, CO2--see Resistant Starch Modulates In Vivo Colonic Butyrate Uptake and Its Oxidation in Rats with Dextran Sulfate Sodium-Induced Colitis ]

                      "During the early postnatal period, the ketones acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate are used instead of glucose as substrates for creation of phospholipids used in brain myelination."
                      - Jenny Thomas, MD, MPH, IBCLC, FAAP, FABM, A Composite of "Why Breastmilk is Not Just Food," the science of breastmilk

                      [Edit: Maybe the fact that RS produces the ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate will interest some ketogenic diet promoters and devotees, though some seem more interested in dismissing RS as a fad, instead of part of our evolutionary heritage with lots of scientific research behind it, before even looking into it.]

                      Your posts even got me to try garbanzo bean flour. I made a couple small pancakes with it and I didn't notice any bad effects from it like I get from whole legumes.

                      The T4 to T3 conversion aspect of gut bacteria is also interesting. I've seen many VLCers report low levels of T3 and other symptoms of low levels of good gut bacteria (poor sleep, feeling cold, constipation, etc.). Some of them (like Dr. Rosedale) claim that the low T3 and some other symptoms are "normal," healthy and good for longevity and cite some studies to support their claims, but it smacks of confirmation bias and cherry picking. There's way more info pointing to all this being unnatural and I've seen many VLCers report improvement when they discard the LC dogma and try adding RS-containing foods back into their diet. Even if it turns out that low-RS VLC is good for longevity, I think I'd choose feeling and functioning better over living a few more years with lower quality of life.

                      Fascinating and encouraging stuff.
                      Last edited by Paleophil; 09-19-2014, 04:12 AM.
                      Originally posted by tatertot
                      Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                      "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                      "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ryancarter1986 View Post

                        Regarding cooking / cooling / reheating potatoes & rice.

                        So I cook as normal , cool , in the fridge , next day , reheat.
                        Now I know I'm not getting high amounts but it's a start and bonus than just eating straight hot from oven ?

                        Then follow ur other protocols with green bananas/ plantains & PS .

                        What's the most common effects when starting with tbsp of PS ?

                        The deal with heating and cooling is a bit of a complicated science.

                        We are dealing with two types of RS...RS2 and RS3.

                        RS2 is what is in a raw potato, green banana, and raw starches. It is resistant to digestion because of it's shape, size, and physical characteristics. If you look at it under an electron microscope, it appears to be built in layers of concentric circles, like a pearl around a grain of sand. This structure is impervious to digestive acids in the small intestine, but gut microbes readily attack it and ferment it into short-chain fatty acids in the large intestine. When heated above a certain threshold, these starch granules swell and burst, turning into readily digestible starches called amylose and amylopectin.

                        RS3 is formed when amylose starch (but not amylopectin) cools. It gels together under heat, and when it cools, it forms a crystalline structure known as retrograded starch. This retrograded starch is again in a form that stomach acid and normal digestive processes can't break down. It is also great food for gut microbes. When re-heated, the crystalline structure remains, even possibly gaining, in crystalline structure. This is especially true if the reheating is done in a very hot, dry manner, such as frying in hot oil or baking at a high temperature. Boiling in water or steaming will not produce these results. With each subsequent heating/cooling/reheating cycle, the RS3 value gets higher and higher, but never as much as in the first cycle--it produces diminishing returns.

                        Evolution-wise, this makes good sense. We evolved eating raw tubers/starchy plants and later when we learned to cook, we got even more RS. Both types of RS are fermented primarily by beneficial bacteria and produce SCFA, but each type of RS is fermented by different microbes which is why I think it's important to eat a variety of RS sources--raw starch AND RS-rich foods AND cooked and cooled starches.

                        This study looked at the habits of rural Africans who don't have colon problems:

                        Examination of a traditional African (low risk) diet shows that their dietary fibre consumption is actually lower than that of some high risk westernised diets. However, their diet contains more starch, largely as whole grain maize [45]. Whole grain starchy foods are generally higher in RS than refined ones through the physical barrier presented by the bran. However, cooking practices of the Africans seem to be more important as it favours the generation of RS through retrogradation [46]. Foods are cooked by heating in water, which leads to gelatinisation and greater digestibility in the small intestine. However, it is the African practice to store cooked porridge for some time, allowing the starch chains to reassociate (retrograde). This leads to the formation of starch that is not digested in the small intestine and that enters the large bowel, i.e., RS.
                        same study, also said:

                        A nutritional study with staled maize porridge (as consumed by native Africans) showed that it favoured large bowel bacterial butyrate production compared with fresh porridge [45]. This, plus a higher basal total SCFA and butyrate excretion, provides an explanation for the improved large bowel health in this population despite a lower fibre intake [46]. The Africans may have consumed a lot of Non Starch Polysaccharides, but as intakes of the fibre components decreased in modern Africans diets, those of RS appear to have been maintained. While native African cooking practice is unchanged, this does not appear to be so for African Americans who are at a very high risk of ColoRectal Cancer and also consume relatively little NSP and RS [50].
                        Find me on Facebook!

                        Comment


                        • yes to the rice pudding!

                          Comment


                          • Yes rice pudding recipe!

                            I am up to 3 tablespoons a day with no gas! I put it in my homemade kombucha along with 3 tablespoons of gelatin (the green can from Great Lakes) and three tablespoons of coconut cream. Blend it all for a second and it really is a complete meal
                            Home birthing legal mama. Unschooler. Jewish Intactivist (step away from the foreskin!). Full-term breastfeeder. Kettlebell padawan.

                            Comment


                            • Rice Pudding

                              Bowl full of cold rice
                              Milk (or coconut milk, kefir, whatever)
                              Sweetener of choice, I like coconut sugar
                              Dash of vanilla
                              1-4TBS of Potato Starch
                              Sprinkle cinnamon on top

                              Play with milk and sugar til you get consistency/sweetness you like
                              Find me on Facebook!

                              Comment


                              • TT wrote: "later when we learned to cook, we got even more RS"

                                I think you're probably right that RS intake likely somewhat increased coincident with cooking (though I haven't seen any evidence on it), not because reheating increases RS content, since reheating never generates as much RS as was in the original raw food, as you pointed out, but because roasting or baking tubers briefly (as African Bushmen report doing traditionally and have been observed doing), makes it easier to remove the skins, enabling faster consumption. Odd as it may seem, one Bushman I saw interviewed about this said taste had nothing to do with it, though that could have been an exaggeration or a minority opinion. Even if not so at first, taste eventually did become a factor, as more modernized peoples tend to prefer the taste of cooked tubers. Probably more importantly, there was the factor of increasing scarcity of alternatives, especially meats as megafauna were hunted to extinction or near extinction.

                                Even if we use the earliest estimates of cooking (such as Wrangham's controversial 1.9 mya), this doesn't guarantee that humans became optimally adapted to increasing intakes of and starchy cooked foods, nor cooking in general. The giant panda and its ancestors are an interesting example of animals that haven't become optimally adapted to a new plant-rich diet even millions of years after they shifted from a highly carnivorous diet. It seems to take longer to adapt to eating more plant foods than to eating more animal foods, especially difficult-to digest plant foods like fibrous bamboo. Plus, every traditional society held up as an examplar of good health included raw animal foods in its diet (including all the examples cited by Weston Price). It's anyone's guess as to how long it takes to optimally adapt to various cooked foods (though there is the offsetting factor of the "old friends" symbiotic organisms that lessen the negative effects of newer foods, which unfortunately have also became increasingly scarce in modernized humans).

                                My own experience and lots of research suggests to me that starchy foods that are edible raw (or raw fermented or raw bletted) and eaten this way have less negative effects healthwise (especially for people sensitive to starchy foods, like me) than those that require cooking (one example is that I find Peruvian purple fingerlings to be both more palatable raw and less of a problem healthwise than the newer Russet potatoes). Unfortunately, they are increasingly scarce as the newer varieties selected for cooking (and ability to survive shipping and lengthy shelf time, appealing and consistent appearance, and other factors not related to healthiness) edge out the older varieties.

                                It's interesting that the traditional African cooking methods of "heating in water" result in lower RS levels than hot, dry cooking, which suggests to me that the fermenting step after the cooking is particularly important in African cooking, which the last paragraph you quoted does suggest: "it is the African practice to store cooked porridge for some time, allowing the starch chains to reassociate (retrograde)."
                                Last edited by Paleophil; 11-17-2013, 08:23 PM.
                                Originally posted by tatertot
                                Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                                "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                                "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X