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  • Originally posted by tatertot View Post
    WOW! You are kicking this thing's ass...good job! I'd say on the probiotics, it all depends on how you feel and your gut. If you have generally great digestion, no heartburn, good stools, and all that, then just take probiotics sparingly if at all. Switch over to fermented foods instead. If you like the idea of probiotics, just take them like every 2-3 days instead of every day. Once your gut is populated with good species and well-fed with RS, the probiotics will stick around on their own if they are supposed to. Some will never stay and grow, but are still beneficial as transients.
    Thanks Tatertot, yeah I'm giving it my best shot mate! Will probably add another probiotic supplement at some point but the fermented kefir/sauerkraut along with the RS and other prebiotic foods seem to be enough at the moment to maintain/continue the improvements I've so far experienced. I've recently added an inulin powder supplement (Now Foods) to take along side the potato starch & Plantain starch, taking approx 20g of it daily with 2Tbsp of PS and 2Tbsp of PL/S, possibly overkill as I get plenty of Inulin from the green bananas/onion/garlic etc, just thought I'd give it a go though, noticed increased gas on starting it but seems to have settled down now. Cheers again for all your help Tater! Will keep you posted on progress.

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    • Originally posted by endless View Post
      I bought Barry Farms :-)
      endless, how do you use the Barry Farms Flour, where do you purchase it and how much RS does it have?
      “Let no barrier you face stop you from acting to optimal.” Dr. Jack Kruse

      "People who lack the clarity, courage, or determination to follow their own dreams will often find ways to discourage yours. When you change for the better, the people around you will be inspired to change also….but only after doing their best to make you stop." Dr. Jack Kruse

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      • I'm on my phone or I would post the link... Just Google www.barryfarms.com. I bought it directly through them, but I think you can also buy it on Amazon.

        I use it only in raw things, like the cookie dough or a tbsp in my smoothie or something. Cooking with it reduces or eliminates the RS from my understanding.

        As far as what is the RS content, that's a question for Tim...he had a chart with RS contents of various foods. I think the banana flour us in the higher side.

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        • Hi guys what do you think of binging one snack a month that is forbidden for paleo and primal? I really love waffles and love to stick to the plan but make an exception of once a month (would that harm)? PS: Ive seen a lovely project for the wafflelovers here, the Dutch waffles really is the best!: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/d...s-food-trailer

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          • Originally posted by kmarie View Post
            Hey Tim,
            If eating green bananas and plantains is adding in some Jarrow FOS/inulin powder overkill?
            Is the FOS/ inulin more of a supplement if using the PS?
            Thx
            K


            Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum
            I don't think there is any problem with going absolutely ape-shit wild with prebiotics. About the only thing that's a waste of money is too much at once, about 50g is all that we seem to be able to handle, more than that and it's passed in poop.

            I spent a couple months recently taking 6g Larch Arabinogalactin, 6g pectin, 15g Inulin, 15g glucomannan, 15g potato starch, eating dried plantains and reheated rice/potatoes/beans. Everything was split up into three meals. Probably 100g of prebiotics/day. At the end, I did a Metametrix GI FX 2200 stool sample and just got the results back yesterday. Not sure how to post the results here is a way you can see them, but they were stellar for everything..pH, SCFA, no parasites, no yeast, all the health markers were perfect. The doc who ordered the test said it's the first one she's seen that came back with no parasites or yeast.

            Originally posted by smit View Post
            Thanks Tatertot, yeah I'm giving it my best shot mate! Will probably add another probiotic supplement at some point but the fermented kefir/sauerkraut along with the RS and other prebiotic foods seem to be enough at the moment to maintain/continue the improvements I've so far experienced. I've recently added an inulin powder supplement (Now Foods) to take along side the potato starch & Plantain starch, taking approx 20g of it daily with 2Tbsp of PS and 2Tbsp of PL/S, possibly overkill as I get plenty of Inulin from the green bananas/onion/garlic etc, just thought I'd give it a go though, noticed increased gas on starting it but seems to have settled down now. Cheers again for all your help Tater! Will keep you posted on progress.
            You are doing it perfectly. You are one of those that everyone will hate, you probably had a pretty healthy gut biome to start with and eating added RS and fermented foods is just making it even healthier. When I upped from about 30-40g/day to 100g/day farts were phenomenal for about 3-5 days, stool size was a bit 'bulkier' than I would be comfortable with long-term, but other than that I felt fine and once the gas subsided I couldn't really tell I was doing anything different (until the next morning, lol).

            Originally posted by Theta View Post
            endless, how do you use the Barry Farms Flour, where do you purchase it and how much RS does it have?
            It 'should' have about 50% RS by weight. I'd feel comfortable guessing somewhere between 30-50%.

            Originally posted by harun36 View Post
            Hi guys what do you think of binging one snack a month that is forbidden for paleo and primal? I really love waffles and love to stick to the plan but make an exception of once a month (would that harm)? PS: Ive seen a lovely project for the wafflelovers here, the Dutch waffles really is the best!: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/d...s-food-trailer
            If you've never had Dutch stroopwaffles, you owe it to yourself to try them. Then decide if it's something you want once a month. But, once you've had a real stroopwaffle fresh from the bakkerij, you won't want fake ones. I think a once-a-month pig-out is fine, just stay away from vegetable oil and wheat. About once a month I get a giant hunk of cheese and eat the whole thing. I just draw the line at bingeing on crap food like pizza, pringles, and KFC.
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            • Why do I feel SO TIRED after using Resistant Starch for two months??

              I'm curious. I started Bob's unmodified potato starch over two months ago. I don't have known digestive issues other than insulin resistance. I am hypothyroid but wonderfully treated.

              I had three obvious results: 1) Horrific gas!! But that ended when I started consuming the RS in the early evening about two weeks, ago 2) More bowel movements 3) Extremely odorous urine and bowels! Wow.

              But suddenly over a week ago, things changed in a terrible way. First thing I noticed were headaches, but only when I bent down or moved positions. After a good 5-6 days of those movement headaches, I started to become physically fatigued. That started four days ago now. I'm TIRED. And I notice a tad of depression and feeling slightly achey with the fatigue.

              Any ideas?? I stopped the RS 48 hours ago---no relief yet.

              Comment


              • Tatertot Tim, what are your thoughts on this:
                In westerners, Bifidumbacterium is a microbe that many nutrition scientists thought was essential to good gut health, but it is almost completely absent in the foragers. Likewise, high counts of the bacteria Treponema have been linked to maladies like Crohn’s disease and irritable bowel syndrome. Neither of these diseases exist among the Hadza, but their guts contain abundant Treponema. The Surprising Gut Microbes of African Hunter-Gatherers | Science | WIRED
                Originally posted by tatertot
                Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                Comment


                • Tatertot Tim, what are your thoughts on this:
                  In westerners, Bifidumbacterium is a microbe that many nutrition scientists thought was essential to good gut health, but it is almost completely absent in the foragers. Likewise, high counts of the bacteria Treponema have been linked to maladies like Crohn’s disease and irritable bowel syndrome. Neither of these diseases exist among the Hadza, but their guts contain abundant Treponema. The Surprising Gut Microbes of African Hunter-Gatherers | Science | WIRED
                  Grapes, I'm no Dr. and I'm not prescribing. So I'll say that if it were me, I would lay off the PS and get my GI microbiome tested. Your results don't sound good to me.

                  ---

                  On a slightly related note, I hope everyone knows by now that it's also possible to overdo it on butyrate, according to some research. My guess is that there would be a hormetic curve, with exceeding a certain level causing more harm than good. I think Tatertot suggested a maximum intake of RS around 40g per day, IIRC, and Richard Nikoley reported that he fares better when he has some days that he doesn't use any RS powders.
                  Last edited by Paleophil; 04-16-2014, 07:28 PM.
                  Originally posted by tatertot
                  Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
                  "our ancestors obtained resistant starch and other fermentable fibers by eating a diversity of wild plant foods, bulbs, corms, tubers, cattails, cactuses, and medicinal barks..." -Mark Sisson

                  "I've long ago tossed the idea that a particular macro ratio is poison, and am now starting to think that the EM2…is defined less by novel NADS…and more by the gut microbiome and environmental pseudocommensals ..." -Kurt Harris, MD

                  Comment


                  • [QUOTE=kmarie;1466013]Ps.... So nice about your sweet dreams, I love dreams like that
                    So far, mine are just like weird tv shoes, lots if detail and strange events but nothing sweet or exciting.

                    Thanks for the info kmarie. I'm looking forward to more dreams!

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                    • Originally posted by tatertot View Post


                      No RS, or very little, still, good food. Hope you liked it. Hopefully one day someone will test all these different foods and their different cooking methods and we'll know exact RS contents. But, I'd say that adding plantains to your rotation of starches is a very wise move, even if not exactly RS powerhouses when cooked. Have you tried drying them? I dry out 5-6 at a time on a large screen rack with fan blowing on them, then eat them like crackers for a couple weeks.
                      I still have my dehydrator from my raw vegan days. I'll get some green ones and try it.

                      I don't do well with potatoes because of nightshade issues so plantains are a great dietary addition to the Japanese sweet potatoes that i eat. I tried some cooked, then chilled overnight rice. I looked pregnant shortly after eating it. Doesn't seem to be a good starch for me.

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                      • Paleophil....funny that you mention GI microbiome testing, because I happen to have a ubiome.com kit right here in front of me for my spouse, but might do it for ME.

                        It just seems odd that I'd start having movement headaches and now bad fatigue--physical and sleepiness around the 10th week I'd been doing RS. It makes me wonder if the RS has been feeding bad bacteria?

                        Another person wondered if my problem is due to "toxicity from the oxidizing properties of RS, which makes it able to denaturate proteins and enzymes." What is your opinion on that? I'm not even sure what it means.

                        Another idea expressed was that I was experiencing the toxic effects from the glycoalkaloids in the potato starch. i.e. solanine and chaconine. Is that possible? And I have to wonder what I do about that?

                        It's very frustrating.

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                        • So my delivery of potato starch arrived today so I started my first experiment with it.

                          I thought I read somewhere that I should take 1 cup of the stuff? Why do I feel so lousy?!?!?!?







                          Srsly - I put 1 teaspoon in a smoothie. So far - so good.

                          What have you done today to make you feel Proud?

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                          • Originally posted by gdot View Post
                            So my delivery of potato starch arrived today so I started my first experiment with it.

                            I thought I read somewhere that I should take 1 cup of the stuff? Why do I feel so lousy?!?!?!?







                            Srsly - I put 1 teaspoon in a smoothie. So far - so good.

                            Hilarious!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by grapes View Post
                              Paleophil....funny that you mention GI microbiome testing, because I happen to have a ubiome.com kit right here in front of me for my spouse, but might do it for ME.

                              It just seems odd that I'd start having movement headaches and now bad fatigue--physical and sleepiness around the 10th week I'd been doing RS. It makes me wonder if the RS has been feeding bad bacteria?

                              Another person wondered if my problem is due to "toxicity from the oxidizing properties of RS, which makes it able to denaturate proteins and enzymes." What is your opinion on that? I'm not even sure what it means.

                              Another idea expressed was that I was experiencing the toxic effects from the glycoalkaloids in the potato starch. i.e. solanine and chaconine. Is that possible? And I have to wonder what I do about that?

                              It's very frustrating.
                              I'm not saying it's not the potato starch or an issue with your gut, but since your issues didn't start for so long after starting RS, couldn't it be caused by something unrelated? A cold, allergies, etc.?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by grapes View Post
                                I'm curious. I started Bob's unmodified potato starch over two months ago. I don't have known digestive issues other than insulin resistance. I am hypothyroid but wonderfully treated.

                                I had three obvious results: 1) Horrific gas!! But that ended when I started consuming the RS in the early evening about two weeks, ago 2) More bowel movements 3) Extremely odorous urine and bowels! Wow.

                                But suddenly over a week ago, things changed in a terrible way. First thing I noticed were headaches, but only when I bent down or moved positions. After a good 5-6 days of those movement headaches, I started to become physically fatigued. That started four days ago now. I'm TIRED. And I notice a tad of depression and feeling slightly achey with the fatigue.

                                Any ideas?? I stopped the RS 48 hours ago---no relief yet.
                                No idea. Results 1 and 2 are somewhat par for the course. 3 is new to me. Also the headaches and tiredness seems strange to just appear out of nowhere. I'd personally think it's unrelated to PS, but certainly stop and see what happens.

                                Originally posted by Paleophil View Post
                                Tatertot Tim, what are your thoughts on this:
                                Very interesting, not sure it has any real implications other than pointing out gut biomes differ around the world. I'd be curious to see if the Hadza babies have bifido, do pregnant mothers have it, and when do they both lose it. Even in the US, a woman with no detectable bifidobacteria can get pregnant and all of a sudden she has bifido in her breastmilk about 1 week prior to delivery..where does it come from? Where does it go? I think on those Hadza/Italian samples, better to look at similarities than differences.

                                Originally posted by calee View Post
                                I still have my dehydrator from my raw vegan days. I'll get some green ones and try it.

                                I don't do well with potatoes because of nightshade issues so plantains are a great dietary addition to the Japanese sweet potatoes that i eat. I tried some cooked, then chilled overnight rice. I looked pregnant shortly after eating it. Doesn't seem to be a good starch for me.
                                If you are bound and determined to try prebiotics, there's also inulin, glucomannan, and pectin. Try 1TBS of one of those per day.

                                Originally posted by grapes View Post
                                It just seems odd that I'd start having movement headaches and now bad fatigue--physical and sleepiness around the 10th week I'd been doing RS. It makes me wonder if the RS has been feeding bad bacteria?

                                Another person wondered if my problem is due to "toxicity from the oxidizing properties of RS, which makes it able to denaturate proteins and enzymes." What is your opinion on that? I'm not even sure what it means.

                                Another idea expressed was that I was experiencing the toxic effects from the glycoalkaloids in the potato starch. i.e. solanine and chaconine. Is that possible? And I have to wonder what I do about that?

                                It's very frustrating.
                                The fact it took 10 weeks makes it unlikely to be related, gut biome changes very fast. 1-2 weeks for major changes that revert quickly back to baseline after just a few days.

                                The second point...no idea what any of that means. I've read hundreds of papers and studies, never come across words like that!

                                The third point, solanine and other chemicals are removed from potato starch with water during processing. If they were present and causing you problems I'd think you'd know right away. Most potato starch has between 2-20ppm of sulfur used to keep it bright white, but that amount is found in almost every processed food and lots more in most cases, again, if you were very sensitive to foods with sulfur, you'd know right away.

                                At any rate, just stop. Send in the uBiome test kit. It won't show any yeasts or parasites, and it takes a long time. better yet, find a Naturopath/Functional Medicine doc and have them order a Genova Labs/Metametrix GI FX 2200 stool test. $99. They may have some other tests available too, such as the ONE a urine test for all kinds of things.

                                Originally posted by gdot View Post
                                So my delivery of potato starch arrived today so I started my first experiment with it.

                                I thought I read somewhere that I should take 1 cup of the stuff? Why do I feel so lousy?!?!?!?

                                You got me!
                                Find me on Facebook!

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