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  • Calcium, sugar and more

    I just read about 10 pages out of knifegill's post (about aging). A lot of stuff I had never heard before.
    I did know that carbs and sugar are necessary (when it comes from a safe source), but I didn't think that fat and meat should be limited (even if I eat a lot of veggies to balance it).

    Furthermore, I barely eat any cheese or milk, I have IBS and I usually don't tolerate milk products all that well, except goat cheese which I seem to tolerate quite well). Anyhow, I barely get any calcium in my diet, and I wonder how perilous that might be. How can I fix that without drinking tons of milk (raw milk is pretty much impossible to get).

    And yams (at least how they're named here: The Difference Between Yams and Sweet Potatoes | Mark's Daily Apple), containing problematic chemicals?, dangerous to the thyroid? I'd really like someone to elaborate on this issue.

  • #2
    Animal flesh is the most nutrient rich item on the plate. Its also quite self limiting (satiating), therefore there really is no need to consciously reduce your consumption. Just choose the fatty cuts and you will naturally tend towards the good fat/protein ratio of about 2/1 by calories. Fill in the rest of your plate with whatever other primal foods float your boat.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
      Animal flesh is the most nutrient rich item on the plate. Its also quite self limiting (satiating), therefore there really is no need to consciously reduce your consumption. Just choose the fatty cuts and you will naturally tend towards the good fat/protein ratio of about 2/1 by calories. Fill in the rest of your plate with whatever other primal foods float your boat.
      But, but, but, Neckhammer! That's just entirely too straightforward. We need to over-think things more than that!

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      • #4
        Drlove, you will probably have to look further then the MDA forums to get answers other then the above.

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        • #5
          Mark Sisson says:

          Ultimately, bone health depends on a number of factors – a constellation of nutrition, activity, and various hormone factors. Here are my nutrient and lifestyle recommendations to maximize calcium absorption and overall bone health…

          Get your calcium from alkaline-forming foods like leafy greens, nuts, broccoli, sweet potatoes and calcium-rich fish like wild salmon and sardines.

          Eat a diet high in antioxidant fruits and veggies. Go low to moderate on carbs to help maintain hormonal balance, and eliminate grains (phytates in grains can bind to calcium and decrease absorption). Reduce caffeine, which can encourage calcium excretion, and limit alcohol, which can decrease bone density and strength over time.

          Ensure adequate vitamin D primarily by spending quality time out in the sun and by taking a supplement containing D3 if need be.

          Do plenty of weight-bearing exercise to maintain bone density. I’d recommend a combination of resistance training and some impact interval activities like sprints.

          Avoid chronic stress. Excess cortisol messes you up. You know that. It also decreases calcium absorption. In my book (coming soon!), stress is a huge reason we see rampant osteoporosis in our society.

          If you’re still concerned about calcium intake, you can always consider a good supplement that includes not just calcium but vitamin D3 and magnesium. In terms of additional therapies for those at risk, research suggests that an aspirin regimen can help treat osteoporosis by balancing bone formation and resorption rates. Of course, talk to a trusted physician about these possibilities in your overall treatment plan.



          Read more: Calcium for Women | Mark's Daily Apple

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          • #6
            Thanks for the answers.
            I don't think I can get enough calcium from greens and such, I simply don't eat enough of those (And I assume you need a heck of a lot of those to get along). I don't know about supplementing, I usually try to avoid it, Especially because the calcium level in my blood tests seems normal, but maybe it doesn't give the whole picture.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              But, but, but, Neckhammer! That's just entirely too straightforward. We need to over-think things more than that!
              I know. Don't we always . Otzi does point out some of the good info from Mark

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Drlove View Post
                Thanks for the answers.
                I don't think I can get enough calcium from greens and such, I simply don't eat enough of those (And I assume you need a heck of a lot of those to get along). I don't know about supplementing, I usually try to avoid it, Especially because the calcium level in my blood tests seems normal, but maybe it doesn't give the whole picture.
                If your blood tests show normal I wouldn't worry. On primal you optimize your absorption of nutrients and how they are used. The k2 in all those yummy fats help direct calcium to where it needs to go. Not to mention what Otzi already stated about magnesium and d3. Then of course don't forget weight bearing exercise to keep bones strong.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Drlove View Post
                  Thanks for the answers.
                  I don't think I can get enough calcium from greens and such, I simply don't eat enough of those (And I assume you need a heck of a lot of those to get along). I don't know about supplementing, I usually try to avoid it, Especially because the calcium level in my blood tests seems normal, but maybe it doesn't give the whole picture.
                  You're right in a way - looking at calcium alone doesn't give the whole picture. The thing with calcium is that most easily get enough but because of insufficient vitamin D3, vitamin K2, magnesium, and zinc some of us don't use it well, leading to problems like osteoporosis or vascular disease
                  Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                  Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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                  • #10
                    Eggshell calcium is a possibility, but dairy intolerance is always a sign of something deeper going on. I recommend reading over Danny Roddy's series on lactose intolerance.
                    Lactose Intolerance: Milk Isn't The Problem, You're The Problem — The Danny Roddy Weblog

                    Muscle meat should be limited, and balanced out with gelatin, due to anti-metabolic amino acids.
                    Make America Great Again

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                    • #11
                      Derpamix, thank you for the link.

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                      • #12
                        No problem. I had a real problem digesting milk at first too, but the simple syrups helps a ton.
                        Make America Great Again

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                          Eggshell calcium is a possibility, but dairy intolerance is always a sign of something deeper going on. I recommend reading over Danny Roddy's series on lactose intolerance.
                          Lactose Intolerance: Milk Isn't The Problem, You're The Problem — The Danny Roddy Weblog

                          Muscle meat should be limited, and balanced out with gelatin, due to anti-metabolic amino acids.
                          I'm sorry, but why one earth would you force yourself to drink milk if it doesn't agree with you?? Lactose tolerance is a genetic mutation, and there is no need to force it. Milk has nothing that you can't get from other foods, even CW knows that. If you do dairy that's fine, but I simply don't understand why you'd force it. Around 75% of the world population is lactose intolerant, and they are all doing just fine. 1 cup of collards has more calcium than 8 ounces of milk, and I think 1 cup of greens a day is do-able. Why fiddle with something that doesn't need it? I just don't get it

                          http://www.pcrm.org/search/?cid=254
                          Last edited by fresa; 12-17-2012, 08:30 PM. Reason: added the link

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fresa View Post
                            I'm sorry, but why one earth would you force yourself to drink milk if it doesn't agree with you?? Lactose tolerance is a genetic mutation, and there is no need to force it. Milk has nothing that you can't get from other foods, even CW knows that. If you do dairy that's fine, but I simply don't understand why you'd force it. Around 75% of the world population is lactose intolerant, and they are all doing just fine. 1 cup of collards has more calcium than 8 ounces of milk, and I think 1 cup of greens a day is do-able. Why fiddle with something that doesn't need it? I just don't get it

                            PCRM | What is Lactose Intolerance?
                            I wont respond to the lactose argument but i would just like to point out that greens are a very poor source of calcium. First 1 cup of COOKED collared greens has roughly 25% rda. Thats a lot of greens. Second, only 40-60% is available. Third, minerals in vegetables are locked in cellulose and would need to be well cooked and chewed to get whats available. Fourth they contain oxalates which interfere with calcium absorption among other things.

                            So lets say you can stomach a cup of cooked greens a day, getting 250mg calcium, say %50 is available, 125mg, say after cooking, chewing and oxalates you get 100mg. Now you have 1/10th RDA. But wait, theres more! On a paleo type diet, the calcium to phosphorus ratio might be more important then just getting your RDA of calcium. Too much Phosphorus will leech calcium from your body. I just plugged in an average paleo day on a tracking site, 1lb of beef, a couple strips bacon, handful of nuts, a couple eggs, some potatoes. over 1500mg Phosphorus. So since the ratio is 1 or 1.5-1, you would need anywhere from 1500-2250mg of calcium.

                            Dont believe vegan (and paleo) propaganda, dairy calcium is among the best forms of dietary calcium along with bones. Plant calcium is not.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Zach View Post
                              I wont respond to the lactose argument but i would just like to point out that greens are a very poor source of calcium. First 1 cup of COOKED collared greens has roughly 25% rda. Thats a lot of greens. Second, only 40-60% is available. Third, minerals in vegetables are locked in cellulose and would need to be well cooked and chewed to get whats available. Fourth they contain oxalates which interfere with calcium absorption among other things.

                              So lets say you can stomach a cup of cooked greens a day, getting 250mg calcium, say %50 is available, 125mg, say after cooking, chewing and oxalates you get 100mg. Now you have 1/10th RDA. But wait, theres more! On a paleo type diet, the calcium to phosphorus ratio might be more important then just getting your RDA of calcium. Too much Phosphorus will leech calcium from your body. I just plugged in an average paleo day on a tracking site, 1lb of beef, a couple strips bacon, handful of nuts, a couple eggs, some potatoes. over 1500mg Phosphorus. So since the ratio is 1 or 1.5-1, you would need anywhere from 1500-2250mg of calcium.

                              Dont believe vegan (and paleo) propaganda, dairy calcium is among the best forms of dietary calcium along with bones. Plant calcium is not.
                              I don't deny that at all. I just tend to stray away from forcing your body to process something if it doesn't want to. I feel like if my body was telling me "don't eat that, it makes me sick" I'd look for other options rather than forcing it. But I also definitely don't get the RDA and I feel fine, so who knows? Maybe I'm completely messing myself for later in life. All I know is I feel like crap with dairy, and fantastic sans dairy. But I also do not eat nearly as much meat/protein as your example paleo person. I know if the OP feels anything like me on milk, especially if the bloodwork is fine, forcing yourself to choke some down and dealing with the repercussions when I could be feeling good isn't worth it. I don't think that dairy intolerance is at all a sign that something is wrong with the body, but maybe I'm wrong. I'll admit it, it happens ALL the time!

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