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Danny Roddy slams Paleo on Matt Stone's Blog

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  • Danny Roddy slams Paleo on Matt Stone's Blog

    The Peat Whisperer Whispers Paleo – 180 Degree Health

    I really don't get Danny Roddy or Matt Stone. They seem to have a big gripe with paleo, but when pressed, they revert to "you are just playing caveman". They both want us to eat in a way that increases our metabolism, as judged by pulse rate and body temp, and the prescription to raise both is 'more sugar'.

    From the article:

    Matt’s ideas resonated with me due to my experiences with my own health; however, they are not popular amongst our peers in the Paleo community.

    Rather than discussing ways to support the metabolic rate, those that view health from an “evolutionary” lens are finding new exciting ways to slow the life process.

    For example:

    Have you ever filled your bathtub with ice to engage in “cold thermogenesis”?
    Have you ever “felt great” on a 24-hour “intermittent” fast?
    Have you ever added a stick of grass-fed butter to a cup of coffee?
    Have you ever called fructose “f#%ktose”?
    Have you ever nodded your head in agreement with anything Robert Lustig or Gary Taubes has ever said?

    If you answered, “yes” to any of the above, you may be an unknowing participant in a phenomenon I have dubbed, “The Race to Torpor!”
    ...
    A Paleo Template: The Best Way To Combat Adaptation?

    So, before I ask these questions, I would like to state that I’m not interested in getting everyone to eat like me; in fact, I want you to eat whatever you want.

    However, having gone through the wringer myself, I empathize with those who are stuck in a dietary paradigm that is not getting them to where they want to be.

    If you’re following a “Paleo template” and are still experiencing problems, I believe that ruminating on these questions is pertinent:

    Are pulse rate and body temperature meaningful health diagnostics?
    What makes more sense: slowing the metabolic rate, increasing it, or is it a “U-shaped” curve?
    Does the way you produce energy have any significance in health?
    Carbon dioxide appears to be a central feature in resisting stress and maintaining health. Why is no one in the Paleosphere (besides Chris Masterjohn) talking about it?

    To sum it all up: Do modern-day “Paleo templates” provide the appropriate context for dealing with the unfavorable adaptive changes seen in stress, sickness and aging?
    Last edited by otzi; 12-15-2012, 10:12 PM.

  • #2
    Stone them!!!
    Make America Great Again

    Comment


    • #3
      Danny Roddy did not slam paleo. Danny Roddy supports paleo - he supports what paleo SHOULD BE.

      What he doesn't support is the low carbohydrate, fear-mongering form of paleo that has turned this community into a niche for dogmatic zealots.

      Danny Roddy supports what paleo SHOULD BE - simply embracing whole foods with a preference for natural sugars (fruits) and ruminant meats. I'm sick and tired of the label "paleo" because it has been hijacked by bloggers with an agenda, and their agenda is to create biases and exceptions so people hang on their every word. You're not that special, fat is no healthier than carbohydrate and muscle meat and vegetables is not the ideal human diet. A little bit of everything whole food is the ideal human diet.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not even going to touch this topic with a ten-foot pole lest people totally get the wrong idea, but let's just say that we allow people to eat what we want and shut the heck up?

        All parties.

        Debate, discuss nutrition, NOT diets.
        "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

        Comment


        • #5
          I think Danny is one of the most brilliant minds in the blogosphere. I owe a lot to Danny Roddy. I will never eat the diet he eats - I am not downing loads of milk, strained orange juice and soda anytime soon - but I have paleo-ified his diet with lots of quality dairy, lots of fruit, lots of starch and reduced my fat intake (while at the same time skewing my meats towards red meat with less of everything else) and I've never felt better in my life. I'd still be getting post-lunch chills every day without Danny's blog.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

          Comment


          • #6
            Actually...

            Paleo "SHOULD" be what works for each individual person... no wide sweeping statements for or against high or low carbohydrate methods because each has important roles to play depending on the persons needs.

            There shouldn't be fear mongering on either side.
            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

            Comment


            • #7
              What I mean is... Let people eat whatever the hell they want to. Instead of making statements such as " the diet you are eating is wrong!" or "you have a severe metabolic deficiency if you DON'T eat x!" or what have you, it would be better to not even tell them what they should be eating, but merely offer some compelling evidence to reconsider their opinions.

              I'm not singling you out Choco, nor anyone else, but being pushy and demonizing certain ways of eating as "damaged" or "wrong" is a bad bit of behavior I have noticed from both sides of the fence within our little community. No one side can claim to be completely free of blame on this one.
              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                Actually...

                Paleo "SHOULD" be what works for each individual person... no wide sweeping statements for or against high or low carbohydrate methods because each has important roles to play depending on the persons needs.

                There shouldn't be fear mongering on either side.
                This, 100% this. It's individual based on specific needs to everyone, that we can NEVER presume to completely understand for ourselves, especially from discussion over an Internet message board.
                "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                  Actually...

                  Paleo "SHOULD" be what works for each individual person... no wide sweeping statements for or against high or low carbohydrate methods because each has important roles to play depending on the persons needs.

                  There shouldn't be fear mongering on either side.
                  You are 100% right Cori. The problem is it's been co-opted by so many bloggers perverting what paleo should actually mean - simply eating real foods regardless of macronutrient breakdown - and they create customized paradigms to separate themselves from the pack so you keep coming back for more. People need to naturally experiment to find out what makes them feel best, but due to fear of an entire macronutrient, many people don't know how much better they can feel.

                  Danny's information points you in the right direction. My personal experimentation confirms that a diet of red meat, quality dairy, ample fruits and starches is vastly superior to a diet of fatty meats and vegetables. I'd never go back. But if you're not willing to find out........you won't.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Danny Roddy's views on serotonin being an adaptive stress response increasing cortisol, estrogens and everything in a bad way are totally false medically speaking.

                    I LACK serotonin because of my hypopituitarism and my LOW cortisol, LOW pregnenolone, and it makes my hypothyroidism and my estrogens WORSE.
                    His point of view is completely reversed.

                    That's why many men on "advanced" Hormone Replacement Therapy, in its most up-to-date form tend to increase pregnenolone to boost ALL neurotransmitters, and tend to take something like 5-HTP to increase serotonin around bed time.

                    Derpamix will want to debate this, I guess.

                    Oh and I don't get how one can say a Paleo WOE is high in trytophan, I get around 1 g of trytophan a day at most.
                    Last edited by Daydreamer; 12-16-2012, 01:37 AM.
                    Young self-caring Paleo-eater from France.
                    (So please forgive the strange way I tend to express myself in your beautiful language )

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm really glad I read Ray Peat's stuff, the paleo/primal thing is just all about money now, they won't change their views when faced with contradicting science because they're more concerned with selling this idea and not health.
                      “There is immeasurably more left inside than what comes out in words…”
                      — Fyodor Dostoevsky

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by homunculus View Post
                        I'm really glad I read Ray Peat's stuff, the paleo/primal thing is just all about money now, they won't change their views when faced with contradicting science because they're more concerned with selling this idea and not health.
                        Agreed, paleo has dug too deep of a hole in terms of what it is and isnt. It will get left behind with other fad diets. At least people like Sisson, Nikoley and other big name bloggers have the fortitude to admit mistakes and change based on evidence. Although few things like wheat and refined sugar will always be the cornerstones but at least the low carb fear is starting to dwindle.

                        Btw Choco, my diet evolved exactly how yours did. Mostly fruit, dairy, little red meat and almost no veg, whole grains, nuts. But i do eat quite a bit of refined grains and legumes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh and Otzi, keep reading Matt and Danny, even if you dont agree with them %100, they have a ton to offer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            a lot of what ray peat writes, and what danny tries to explain, is interesting, but some is so far off the broad scientific consensus (yeah, i know, conventional wisdom), that i feel it behooves him to prove his claims a bit better. rejecting the model of cells with walls and pressure gradients? wow... and for hormones, he looks at really early science and seems to ignore volumes of data we've amassed since then. kinda weird.

                            i'm also not convinced that a high body temperature and fast heart beat automatically equal health & vitality. that's awfully simplistic.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              Danny Roddy did not slam paleo. Danny Roddy supports paleo - he supports what paleo SHOULD BE.
                              Rather than discussing ways to support the metabolic rate, those that view health from an “evolutionary” lens are finding new exciting ways to slow the life process.

                              For example:

                              Have you ever filled your bathtub with ice to engage in “cold thermogenesis”?
                              Have you ever “felt great” on a 24-hour “intermittent” fast?
                              Have you ever added a stick of grass-fed butter to a cup of coffee?
                              Have you ever called fructose “f#%ktose”?
                              Have you ever nodded your head in agreement with anything Robert Lustig or Gary Taubes has ever said?

                              If you answered, “yes” to any of the above, you may be an unknowing participant in a phenomenon I have dubbed, “The Race to Torpor!”

                              Let's break this down and see if he supports even Mark Sisson's version of Paleo:

                              Have you ever filled your bathtub with ice to engage in “cold thermogenesis”? Mark likes this in some contexts. I've done it occasionally, helps with delayed onset muscle soreness and maybe helps with Brown Fat.

                              Have you ever “felt great” on a 24-hour “intermittent” fast? I certainly have, do it all the time! Kind of a cornerstone to Marks PB.

                              Have you ever added a stick of grass-fed butter to a cup of coffee? Drinking it right now! Lots of us doing it. Makes a great breakfast on a cold morning.

                              Have you ever called fructose “f#%ktose”? No, but I will from now on--that's a good one! Mark says we should limit it for various reasons. It's what got a lot of us in trouble.

                              Have you ever nodded your head in agreement with anything Robert Lustig or Gary Taubes has ever said? Well, we had a big debate here last week about the Carbohydrate-Insulin Hypothesis of Obesity, we use their names a lot and they both have impressive works to back most of their claims, so I think we may have all at least nodded once when someone said "all calories are not created equal".

                              So, there you have it,,,we are all headed to "Torpor" wherever that is. I think it's where bears go to hibernate. But I can guarantee my life will not improve simply by adding strained OJ, salt, sugar, and donating blood until my temperature increases and my resting heart rate raises to 85.

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