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Danny Roddy slams Paleo on Matt Stone's Blog

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  • #16
    The Danny Roddy thread that was going here a few months ago was dynamite. I'm still reading his blog. He offers a new perspective and, while I don't subscribe to everything he says, it's shown me that you can prove or disprove anything with science, so it's important to keep an open mind and experiment with what feels right for you.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
      The Danny Roddy thread that was going here a few months ago was dynamite. I'm still reading his blog. He offers a new perspective and, while I don't subscribe to everything he says, it's shown me that you can prove or disprove anything with science, so it's important to keep an open mind and experiment with what feels right for you.
      Yep! I have read all of his blogs and followed many links. I think the problem with Danny Roddy and Matt Stone is that they are working off the back of Dr. Ray Peat, a kind of outlier in the medical profession. Peat works with patients and has had success doing things like increasing sugar, salt, changing lipids, and paying attention to iron, calcium, and the like.

      When you try to apply Peats work to a population, it will fail miserably. People have a hard time following paleo/Primal Blueprint because they are too lazy to make bone broth and don't like liver--how do you think they will fare on a diet that makes you strain orange juice, make homemade icecream, and eat a special carrot salad every day? Peat's recommended eating pattern is way bizarre and probably should only be used by his patients based on labs and bio-markers.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by otzi View Post
        Yep! I have read all of his blogs and followed many links. I think the problem with Danny Roddy and Matt Stone is that they are working off the back of Dr. Ray Peat, a kind of outlier in the medical profession. Peat works with patients and has had success doing things like increasing sugar, salt, changing lipids, and paying attention to iron, calcium, and the like.

        When you try to apply Peats work to a population, it will fail miserably. People have a hard time following paleo/Primal Blueprint because they are too lazy to make bone broth and don't like liver--how do you think they will fare on a diet that makes you strain orange juice, make homemade icecream, and eat a special carrot salad every day? Peat's recommended eating pattern is way bizarre and probably should only be used by his patients based on labs and bio-markers.
        Would probably help if you knew what you were talking about. Not only is liver and brone broth a Peat-friendly food, but the special carrot salad is nothing but grated carrots in coconut oil and vinegar. Straining OJ is not hard, and you can even use commercial orange juice. Hell, he even uses frozen concentrate OJ himself. Ice cream is fine if it doesn't contain gums, additives, et el. Haagen Daz for example, which I eat liberally.

        How hard is this diet(mine for example when I started at first):

        4 quarts of milk, 2 quarts of orange juice, 10oz or more of cheese, 1-2lbs of dates, 28oz of haagen daz daily, lots of salt, some bakers chocolate, 8oz of beef liver every week, butter, coconut oil, coffee, supplemental sugar(in coffee, milk, orange juice, and even on my cheese) gummy bears, mexican coke, blackstrap molasses.

        I don't even cook any of that stuff
        Make America Great Again

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        • #19
          Originally posted by otzi View Post
          When you try to apply Peats work to a population, it will fail miserably. People have a hard time following paleo/Primal Blueprint because they are too lazy to make bone broth and don't like liver--how do you think they will fare on a diet that makes you strain orange juice, make homemade icecream, and eat a special carrot salad every day? Peat's recommended eating pattern is way bizarre and probably should only be used by his patients based on labs and bio-markers.
          I agree with this in part. I personally can't bring myself to consume a mostly liquid diet of milk and OJ. However, I think this is a situation where you can take the elements that ARE doable and incorporate them into your lifestyle IF there is a need.

          If someone is eating a paleo diet, or even a SAD diet, and they are happy and healthy, no one is saying they need to change it.

          I see Peat/Roddy recommendations as 'next steps' for people, like me, who are watching their health decline on a paleo diet.

          Like I said, I could never bring myself to consume a liquid milk/OJ diet, but increasing my starches and sugars while decreasing my fat (among other small changes) has made a GIGANTIC improvement in my health.

          I agree that having a faster heartbeat and body temperature are not the ONLY indications of good health, but for me, as someone with a body temperature that was approaching a corpse, and a super low pulse, I didn't even have the energy to get off the couch most days (But hey, no blood sugar spikes!) That's certainly not the picture of good health.

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          • #20
            You don't need to consume a mostly liquid diet. Cheese can replace milk for calcium, tropical fruit can replace OJ, etc. Solid foods have their place in a Peat diet as well.
            Make America Great Again

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            • #21
              Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
              I see Peat/Roddy recommendations as 'next steps' for people.
              I agree. I think there's a lot of good stuff to be taken from both diets, and something ideal is probably a fusion of many approaches, individually tailored.

              So glad you're feeling better Bestburner! You're looking great in your pic
              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

              - Ray Peat

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                I agree with this in part. I personally can't bring myself to consume a mostly liquid diet of milk and OJ. However, I think this is a situation where you can take the elements that ARE doable and incorporate them into your lifestyle IF there is a need.

                If someone is eating a paleo diet, or even a SAD diet, and they are happy and healthy, no one is saying they need to change it.

                I see Peat/Roddy recommendations as 'next steps' for people, like me, who are watching their health decline on a paleo diet.

                Like I said, I could never bring myself to consume a liquid milk/OJ diet, but increasing my starches and sugars while decreasing my fat (among other small changes) has made a GIGANTIC improvement in my health.

                I agree that having a faster heartbeat and body temperature are not the ONLY indications of good health, but for me, as someone with a body temperature that was approaching a corpse, and a super low pulse, I didn't even have the energy to get off the couch most days (But hey, no blood sugar spikes!) That's certainly not the picture of good health.
                You are describing a condition that needs medical intervention--not just reading blogs on the internet. I'd bet that if you went to Dr. Peat's office and had him examine you, you would be doing things way differently than what you are doing by reading his and Danny's blogs.

                If I met someone who had slow pulse, low temps, and no energy and they told me they were following a paleo template to get better, but it's not working, and they are continuing to do it?? Well, that's not much different than someone who goes to the doctor because they are feeling bad and walk away with a handful of statins and other meds which don't help, but they take them for years getting no better.

                On a different note, I have seen numerous comments in Danny's blog by people who have added lots of carbs and sugar and only gain weight. People miss their sugar and any guru who tells them sugar is OK will be popular with them.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                  4 quarts of milk, 2 quarts of orange juice, 10oz or more of cheese, 1-2lbs of dates, 28oz of haagen daz daily, lots of salt, some bakers chocolate, 8oz of beef liver every week, butter, coconut oil, coffee, supplemental sugar(in coffee, milk, orange juice, and even on my cheese) gummy bears, mexican coke, blackstrap molasses.

                  I don't even cook any of that stuff
                  Sweet mother of God...!!!

                  Saying that, you do have great hair
                  "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                  In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                  - Ray Peat

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                    Sweet mother of God...!!!

                    Saying that, you do have great hair
                    aww thanks ^-^
                    Make America Great Again

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                      You don't need to consume a mostly liquid diet. Cheese can replace milk for calcium, tropical fruit can replace OJ, etc. Solid foods have their place in a Peat diet as well.
                      That could be fine for some people, but not me. I don't consume dairy. It gives me terrible acne, and there are lots of theories about links between casein, and autoimmune disorders, which I have.

                      Plus, it would take a hell of a lot of cheese to satiate me...I need to eat solid foods, and I personally need more variety. But that's me.

                      Originally posted by otzi View Post
                      You are describing a condition that needs medical intervention--not just reading blogs on the internet. I'd bet that if you went to Dr. Peat's office and had him examine you, you would be doing things way differently than what you are doing by reading his and Danny's blogs.
                      Funny, I was able to cure all the problems brought on by my paleo/primal eating by doing exactly that. Which I find impressive, since every doctor I went to for 'medical intervention' had zero to offer me in terms of improving my health. Somehow, I did it, and it only took tweaking my diet using some info from these blogs.


                      Originally posted by otzi View Post
                      On a different note, I have seen numerous comments in Danny's blog by people who have added lots of carbs and sugar and only gain weight. People miss their sugar and any guru who tells them sugar is OK will be popular with them.
                      I think this is probably happening for the same reason that some people gain weight on primal; they incorrectly assume that just because something is healthy and good to eat, it automatically means they should consume it excessively. It all comes down to moderation, in my opinion. Yes, some sugar can be good for you. Does that mean you should be guzzling 5lbs of sugar every day? No, of course not. But then, guzzling a lb of butter or 5lbs of bacon probably isn't a good idea, either. Yet there are always posts on this forum from folks doing exactly that.

                      I think people sometimes want permission to go overboard. It doesn't matter whether it's sugar or fat. It's a shame that the focus is usually 'what can I eat to excess without getting fat?' instead of searching for balance.

                      Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                      You're looking great in your pic
                      Thanks!
                      Last edited by BestBetter; 12-16-2012, 03:30 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                        Would probably help if you knew what you were talking about. Not only is liver and brone broth a Peat-friendly food, but the special carrot salad is nothing but grated carrots in coconut oil and vinegar. Straining OJ is not hard, and you can even use commercial orange juice. Hell, he even uses frozen concentrate OJ himself. Ice cream is fine if it doesn't contain gums, additives, et el. Haagen Daz for example, which I eat liberally.

                        How hard is this diet(mine for example when I started at first):

                        4 quarts of milk, 2 quarts of orange juice, 10oz or more of cheese, 1-2lbs of dates, 28oz of haagen daz daily, lots of salt, some bakers chocolate, 8oz of beef liver every week, butter, coconut oil, coffee, supplemental sugar(in coffee, milk, orange juice, and even on my cheese) gummy bears, mexican coke, blackstrap molasses.

                        I don't even cook any of that stuff
                        I love this! You must be very healthy and energetic all the time! Im sticking more with solids at the moment but as my metabolism rises more liquid will be less of an issue.

                        How much salt do you use a day with that volume of liquid?

                        Thanks

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Emby View Post
                          I love this! You must be very healthy and energetic all the time! Im sticking more with solids at the moment but as my metabolism rises more liquid will be less of an issue.

                          How much salt do you use a day with that volume of liquid?

                          Thanks
                          Hey friend, I do feel very energetic and quite good. Waking up is only hard because my job is so boring. I just salt to taste, my diet has changed a bit from then though. I would say I get an additional 2tbsp of salt per day. I'm quite fond of salt on very water dense fruit like watermelon, which also works if you prefer more solid food.
                          Make America Great Again

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            My personal experimentation confirms that a diet of red meat, quality dairy, ample fruits and starches is vastly superior to a diet of fatty meats and vegetables.
                            For you it is. But for a lot of people, it's not quite the right fit. I mean, hell if I want to eat fatty meat and vegetables either. But some people find it works well for them. I like a variety of proteins, fruits, vegetables and limited dairy and starches. That's what works for me. Some people do awesome on a raw vegan diet.

                            Paleo and Primal are really rough guidelines and the bigger message is about foods to avoid.

                            http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                            Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                            • #29
                              I used to get annoyed with this stuff; especially when co-workers, family and friends would email over random internet "research" and findings against some of the Paleo cornerstones. I used to discuss which inevitability resulted in arguments.

                              Now I just say: "That's cute, but I'm the strongest I've ever been with my lowest body fat % while doing about 1/4 the cardio, eat 10X more vegetables, sleep better, dont rely on caffeine, somehow lost my sinus issues and have improved my health stats. Thanks for the note but I'll stick with what's working."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                                For you it is. But for a lot of people, it's not quite the right fit. I mean, hell if I want to eat fatty meat and vegetables either. But some people find it works well for them. I like a variety of proteins, fruits, vegetables and limited dairy and starches. That's what works for me. Some people do awesome on a raw vegan diet.

                                Paleo and Primal are really rough guidelines and the bigger message is about foods to avoid.
                                Exactly this!!!! Eliminating the garbage foods is 90% of the battle. The last 10% at most is playing with macros (and not even necessary).

                                Funny thing though, the forums (and the blogsphere) focus on the reletively unimportant 10%.
                                "It's a great life, if you don't weaken.". John Buchan

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