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  • #46
    Originally posted by jturk View Post
    It's an inevitable consequence of weight loss. Thin faces look older.
    Yes and No. But it's an oversimplification since the gaunt, tired haggard face from dieting will to a certain degree be restored when eating at maintenance for a while, even without gaining the weight back! Extended dieting stresses the body and makes hormonal changes, and when restoring hormonal levels the face will recuperate and look much better than in the end game of a diet or right after…
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    - Schopenhauer

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
      You're aging rapidly for a variety of reasons.

      1). Stress hormones are permanently activated
      2). Excess tryptophan
      3). Serotonin

      Those three I know for a fact, and can make various other assumptions based on your diet alone. I'm about your age and get that I look like I'm 20 years old all the time. Genetics? Maybe, maybe not.

      Lower your stress. Sugar, sugar, sugar.
      I like the way you roll.

      Berries are a terrible source of sugar. Try oranges, melons, raw honey, organic maple syrup and very ripe bananas. Berries are also kind of fibrous and force you to eat the seed. IMO, there is an overemphasis on berries due to carb count. I like my apples, bananas and mangoes more.

      For more information on a society that aged prematurely due to diet, see the Inuit.

      I'll never understand the whole low-carb paradigm. Most traditional societies are higher carbohydrate, and the only low-carb society that is ever referenced are the Inuit, who were notorious for early aging and not being all that lean. Vary your diet. Eat equal calories from fat, protein and starch. There is nothing like 33/33/33 for health and feel. You get EVERYTHING your body wants, which means less stress and slower aging because it doesn't have to convert an overabundance of stuff it doesn't need into something it does need (like forcing it to use gluconeogenesis to convert protein into glucose, talk about a chronic stressor!).
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
        It's not protein, it's the composition of amino acids in the protein that is commonly consumed on a paleo diet. Tryptophan, methionine, and cysteine are all consumed in abundance.

        Gelatin has no tryptophan, and very small amounts of methionine and cysteine. Of course one can't just get all of their protein from gelatin, so it should be balanced out with consuming your muscle meats with gelatin. I personally get moderate protein with most coming from dairy or gelatin, with some beef from time to time.

        Paleo dieters just think "OH MEAT PRIMAL EAT" without thinking of how inflammatory it actually is. I know someone that goes through 2 packages of bacon a day. Pork has the highest concentration of arachidonic acid, which is very, very inflammatory.
        I'm impressed. You are very well-read and intelligent.

        Paleo dieters eat far too much phosphate-rich muscle meat. When you eat lots of muscle meat and vegetables, you do a lot of things:

        1.) You throw your calcium : phosphate ratio out of whack. You can break this up by eating gelatin-rich bone-in cuts of meat (as mentioned), or you could consume more dairy and eggs in lieu of slabs of muscle.

        2.) Low-carb diets are stressful and promote aging. Your body WANTS to take the easiest method of creating energy. When you are constantly in a state of gluconeogenesis from lack of carbohydrate consumption, you are constantly in a state of stress. Low-carbers have high levels of adrenaline (a major stressor), high levels of cortisol (a stressor) and low levels of CO2 (meaning your mitochondria are less robust and do not respire well). Eat more sugar and starch, less fat and less phosphate-rich protein sources (slabs of muscle meat).

        Essentially, since your brain runs on glucose, you are putting your body in a constant state of starvation regardless of calorie intake. You can go through small stints of low carbohydrate dieting - quick, brief levels of stress strengthen you - but to do it for weeks, months or years is devastating to your body. You're going to look old and haggard like an Inuit.
        Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 12-14-2012, 10:57 AM.
        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
          There is nothing like 33/33/33 for health and feel. You get EVERYTHING your body wants, which means less stress and slower aging because it doesn't have to convert an overabundance of stuff it doesn't need into something it does need (like forcing it to use gluconeogenesis to convert protein into glucose, talk about a chronic stressor!).
          Hmm, I maintain my body on 4000 kcal right now, so according to your macro setup I should get whopping 330 gram of protein instead of “only” 200 gram as I eat now??? I thought I was pretty high on proteins but nothing compared to your recommendations…
          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

          - Schopenhauer

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
            Hmm, I maintain my body on 4000 kcal right now, so according to your macro setup I should get whopping 330 gram of protein instead of “only” 200 gram as I eat now??? I thought I was pretty high on proteins but nothing compared to your recommendations…
            It depends on your activity level. Most people don't have that high of a caloric intake, so you're constantly massively overeating (which has problems in and of itself). No, you shouldn't have that high of a protein intake. For the average somewhat sedentary person, I'd probably recommend a 1:1 protein:carb intake, meaning 1g of carbohydrate consumed to every gram of protein. For someone very active, 1.5-2g. For you, you'd probably want 2g of carbohydrate or more on average for every gram of protein consumed to limit stress. Also, since carbs are indirectly stored as body fat rather than directly stored (like dietary fat), if you're trying to gain lean mass, you'd probably be better off overconsuming carbohydrate than fat. Upping fats a whole lot would probably lead to a lousy body composition.

            At least that's what I'd do.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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            • #51
              Ya know, log rollers back in the day used to have to eat 10,000 calories per day just to keep up with their work demands. So that's pretty assumptive to say he's overeating. Different people doing different things can require vastly different amounts of food.

              To say that low carbing induces aging goes against all the photographic evidence of how people look before and after such diets that I have seen. Low FAT, now that does appear to induce excessive aging. But the massive amounts of inflammantion those of us with screwed up sugar metabolisms run around with every day.. getting rid of that, no way it's more aging than going ahead and eating all the carbs that are killing us.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by jturk View Post
                It's an inevitable consequence of weight loss. Thin faces look older.

                The way your face looks is not a reliable indicator of cellular aging, even in the skin.

                Not that this is or isn't true, but that article is a pretty bad example when addressing Knifegill's issue. That article addresses women, and says that a thin face only looks older if the person is over 40. Neither of these, as far as I can tell, apply to Knifegill. I think a thin face looking older makes sense, but that's not a great source.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                  Vary your diet. Eat equal calories from fat, protein and starch. There is nothing like 33/33/33 for health and feel. You get EVERYTHING your body wants, which means less stress and slower aging because it doesn't have to convert an overabundance of stuff it doesn't need into something it does need (like forcing it to use gluconeogenesis to convert protein into glucose, talk about a chronic stressor!).
                  Glad to read this because while I shoot for less than 40% fat (seems to work for me in weight loss mode) - actually I just try to keep fat grams to under 60g, I usually end up with a 3 way split and I was pretty happy to see that split, but I hadnt seen anyone else here say it anywhere (probably did and I just missed it) So basically a 3-way with calories 1200-1550. Some days more and some days less in any category.
                  65lbs gone and counting!!

                  Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                  • #54
                    Many years ago, when I was in my late 20's, I worked shiftwork for 7 years -- it nearly killed me. I could never adjust to the changing shifts and night shift was pure hell because I could never get quality sleep during the day. I left that job, but maintain my friendships with my mates who have continued to work the shiftwork. My observation is that about 95% of the shiftworkers are very overweight (particularly the women), and their faces are fleshy with excess flab. Most of them have other physical ailments and most are on medications. I truly believe that shiftwork is one of the greatest disservices that we can do to our bodies. In my humble opinion, I've been blessed with genetics of great looking skin. Since going primal, I believe I now look 10 years younger than my youthful 49 years of age. My co-workers were shocked when I shared with them that in 14 months, I will turn 50. I'm wearing a size 8 and have more energy and vitality than ever before. I believe I"m learning to tap into my inner child more than I ever have, and this may also manifest in a youthful appearance. My friends and husband, are marathon runners and they are out there, pounding the pavement day after day, week after week --- their skin looks 'tired'. I don't believe my face looks drawn, despite the 17lbs of weight loss -- I believe my skin has firmed up overall. Anyway, that's just a few of my observations of myself and some of my friends. But I re-iterate that shiftwork nearly killed me and that was when I was still youthful. I couldn't imagine working shiftwork into my 40's or 50's.
                    ----------------------------------------
                    F, 48, 5'10"
                    Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
                    Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

                    Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      It depends on your activity level. Most people don't have that high of a caloric intake, so you're constantly massively overeating (which has problems in and of itself). No, you shouldn't have that high of a protein intake. For the average somewhat sedentary person, I'd probably recommend a 1:1 protein:carb intake, meaning 1g of carbohydrate consumed to every gram of protein. For someone very active, 1.5-2g. For you, you'd probably want 2g of carbohydrate or more on average for every gram of protein consumed to limit stress. Also, since carbs are indirectly stored as body fat rather than directly stored (like dietary fat), if you're trying to gain lean mass, you'd probably be better off overconsuming carbohydrate than fat. Upping fats a whole lot would probably lead to a lousy body composition.
                      At least that's what I'd do.
                      My calorie expenditure is high because I am 200 pound, lean, and I work out twice a day, doing cardio in the morning and high volume weight training in the afternoon. I usually go for around 200 – 220 gram of proteins, 150 gram of fat and around 400 - 450 gram of carbs on workout days. It seem to be my maintenance right now, and I am not trying to get more muscles or lose more weight…
                      "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                      - Schopenhauer

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by AshleyL View Post
                        To say that low carbing induces aging goes against all the photographic evidence of how people look before and after such diets that I have seen. Low FAT, now that does appear to induce excessive aging.
                        You are confusing confounding factors.

                        The reason why low fat diets tend to induce aging is because people drop healthy animal fats and replace them with grain products, typically whole grain products.

                        The reason why low carb diets tend to be positive is people accidentally consume more animal fat and accidentally significantly reduce or eliminate grains.

                        This is in the context of SAD.

                        In the context of a Primal Blueprint diet, a low carber is going to age much faster than someone that embraces fat AND starch AND sugar because grains are eliminated in both. The difference is, the low carber is constantly under stress converting protein into glucose while the guy that eats a bit of everything never has to rely on secondary processes to get what his body needs.
                        Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 12-14-2012, 11:28 AM.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                          My calorie expenditure is high because I am 200 pound, lean, and I work out twice a day, doing cardio in the morning and high volume weight training in the afternoon. I usually go for around 200 – 220 gram of proteins, 150 gram of fat and around 400 - 450 gram of carbs on workout days. It seem to be my maintenance right now, and I am not trying to get more muscles or lose more weight…
                          So you do 2g of carbs per gram of protein. That sounds exactly right. Assuming you're grain free and vegetable oil free and eating Primally, you'll likely see the best results from this type of diet.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                          • #58
                            Id like to see anyone over 30 who doesnt look like shit after a night shift.....

                            anyway...may i suggest that while you pinpoint the cause (if any) to your issue, you try doing some facial exercise?

                            have a look at some programs like FlexEffect (lady bodybuilder developed her own plan as she was looking gaunt when getting ready to compete and her exercises filled out her hollows in her face) She looks bloody good on them too. I use facial exercising on and off for cpl years now and im determined to at least stick with a short, easy to do, no excuses, set (Im doing Carolyns Facial Fitness at mo ) There is Carole Maggios Facebuilder which is aimed at men, so maybe look in to it

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                            • #59
                              Knifegill - you my boy are a beautiful person. Your journey has been amazing. You need to be looking in the mirror and telling yourself these positive things !
                              "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

                              ...small steps....

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                                So you do 2g of carbs per gram of protein. That sounds exactly right. Assuming you're grain free and vegetable oil free and eating Primally, you'll likely see the best results from this type of diet.
                                Sounds good, since my focus now is athletic performance and maintenance of weight and health. I will avoid processed foods for the weekdays except on Sundays so I'll keep one day of the week for the more sinful non-primal stuff…
                                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                                - Schopenhauer

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