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Quality Carbs -- Starches and Greens

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  • #61
    Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    No - not all carbs are equal. If you are young with a healthy metabolism starch is superior to fructose. And you don't need to count fiber. If you post more details on your personal circumstances, you should receive some beneficial advice.
    20 years old, 5'9, 130 lbs... currently have a knee injury so can't do much in the way of exercise, which is extremely frustrating. hence my concern with the carbs im eating

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    • #62
      Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
      20 years old, 5'9, 130 lbs... currently have a knee injury so can't do much in the way of exercise, which is extremely frustrating. hence my concern with the carbs im eating
      What are your aims?
      F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
        What are your aims?
        In the long term, becoming more toned... but since I'm injured and can't exercise this seems somewhat impossible right now. so i suppose, for the moment, my goal is to maintain my weight

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        • #64
          Sounds a major challenge

          I advise eating quality dairy (goat's sheep's) and other protein (organ meats) and focusing on starch intake for carbs from sweet/white potato, and bananas. This should help maintain your muscle mass while you recover. All-round micronutrient intake is vital.
          F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
            No - not all carbs are equal. If you are young with a healthy metabolism starch is superior to fructose. And you don't need to count fiber. If you post more details on your personal circumstances, you should receive some beneficial advice.
            I actually agree with bunny on this much. Starch is easier for the body to deal with than fructose. It is processed using insulin, so as long as your pancreas can put out enough insulin to handle the load or you're not resistant, it'll get where it should. Unless you're just sitting there eating mountains and mountains of starchy foods of course, but you're not doing that are you?

            Fructose must be processed in the liver, and it will replenish liver glycogen stores, but is not efficiently utilized by your muscles. Any excess is more likely to be turned into body fat. This doesn't mean that you have to avoid fructose like the plague, but limit consumption to a reasonable amount.

            In terms of weight gain and calories, a gram of fructose has the same load as a gram of starch, that is, 4.5 calories. So they get counted the same for overall caloric purposes.

            Even us "low carbers" don't typically count fiber towards totals. The metabolic impact of a gram of fiber (0.5 - 1 calorie because gut flora can use them a little) is so small as to make the impact negligible.

            But in terms of keeping blood sugar at a decent level, regardless of the type of carb you are consuming, it is about moderation. I know people who stay VLC under 20 grams a day (net carbs), but still include like a quarter or a half cup of sweet potatoes as a part of their load. Learn where your tollerance level is.

            Finding the sweet spot for you that allows you to continue to lose (or maintain if you're at your goal), is the key. Some people tollerate fairly high levels of carbs and some do better at lower amounts. Experiment, experiment, experiment. Find where you fall on the spectrum and just make it happen.
            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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            • #66
              Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
              In the long term, becoming more toned... but since I'm injured and can't exercise this seems somewhat impossible right now. so i suppose, for the moment, my goal is to maintain my weight
              The more active you are, the more you might have a need for carbs. I know that there are people who consume lots of carbs on workout days but on rest days (or even weeks), they stick to almost ketogenic carb levels. You may not have to go that low, but you should indeed moderate carb intake based on current activity levels.
              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                Wow, didn't expect to come back to this thread and find so many (fired up) responses.

                For the purposes of answering the original question (and whether or not you think LC is good or bad), is it safe to assume that a carb is a carb -- and that fifty grams of broccoli carbs affect the body no differently from sweet potato or squash carbs? or have I gotten this wrong?

                Sorry... the conversation sort of veered and I'm still a little fuzzy on the verdict!

                In my opinion and experience, carbs are carbs. However, when it comes to my overall macro intake of carbs, I only consider starchy vegetables and fruits. So, on workout days, if I were to take in 250g carbs, it could be fruit, potatoes, sweet potatoes, whatever. They are all carbs.

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                • #68
                  Healthy blood sugar is about balance and about undertstanding metabolism. My blood sugar was in the ultra healthy range while I had a BMI around 34. That is because I had put in a lot of effort to eat healthily and had always been active while I was capable. It was only ill health that prevented me from exersising that caused me to gain weight.
                  F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Artbuc View Post
                    Would you consider coconut with its MCT for quick energy and anti-microbial properties empty calories? Also, what about hard cheeses such as parmesan and Kerrygold Dubliner? I am concerned that I eat way too much coconut and cheese, but I really love them! I guess if the cheese is grass-fed it is a very good source of K2, at least.

                    Edit: Mark's Definitive Guides say dairy is not pure PB but in limbo and may be ok for those who can tolerate it, especially raw and grass fed products. OTOH, Mark says coconut is an excellent PB food, if I am understanding him correctly.
                    Dairy products have a lot of nutritional value if they are something your body processes well. This is an individual decision. For me raw and/or non cow dairy products work best. MCT oil is not something I use. It is basically a processed version of coconut oil. I don't see the need for the processing. Choco was talking about the silliness of people chugging down butter and oil to stay high fat and I agree. It is better to get your fat from whole foods.

                    Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                    To each his own, but I hate reading about people struggling with VLC,ready to go back to SAD or CW because they think that if they have a banana or sweet potato they are 1. cheating or 2. going to fail.
                    I have never said this and do not believe anyone would get such an over the top anti carb message from a board so dominated by spud threads.

                    Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                    Hmmm... Well I eat almost nothing but real foods and have vastly improved my health and my overall feelings of well-being, so by your standards, I'm doing just what the doctor ordered!

                    So I think I fit within the blueprint just fine.

                    And by the way, I'll be sticking around, despite my "low carb bent" and you'll just have to put up with it. Heh.
                    Exactly. Paleo-bunny is right that the PB is not low carb. But it is not high carb either. It is about quality foods. Telling Drumroll to get out and go to a low carb forum is incredibly rude. There is room enough in the Primal cave for a wide spectrum of carb consumptions. Why the exclusionary snottiness?

                    Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
                    That is great. Good for you. If low carb works for you, in a minority, why would I wish to drive you away?
                    What makes you think low carb is the minority (Have you done a survey or poll?) and why does it matter so much to you to shove someone into this "minority" status?

                    Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                    Finding the sweet spot for you that allows you to continue to lose (or maintain if you're at your goal), is the key. Some people tollerate fairly high levels of carbs and some do better at lower amounts. Experiment, experiment, experiment. Find where you fall on the spectrum and just make it happen.
                    What a pleasant, reasonable approach.

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                    • #70
                      Hell Paleobird, I WISH I had a better tollerance for carbs. That way I could enjoy a few primal treats like butternut squash mash, ect. ect...

                      But I have learned through experimentation that aside from the VERY occasional carb refeed (to keep my metabolism in check), this is not a good idea. Much more than that, and carbs tend to make me both binge and put on body fat. I don't seem to gain weight, no, but I find that my body tends to get, uh... Fluffier.

                      Agreed about making assertions that low carb is the minority around here. First, that depends on what we're defining as low carb. The majority of primal eaters will likely be far lower than SAD eaters in terms of overall carb consumption even if they're sweet potato and squash fans. Coming from that perspective, we're almost ALL "low carb." And even if we're only calling low carb 50 grams and below I would not be comfortable making that assertion myself without conducting a thorough poll on the issue and that would still be a spotty claim at best because lots of people wouldn't even bother to take the poll.

                      I agree with Magnolia's contention that a lot of people fail at paleo/primal because they get all wrapped up in low carb when they don't need to. Want carbs? Here, have a sweet potato or some squash or a piece of fruit. However, some of us DO do better on low carb. That doesn't make the transition any easier for us though, just because we know that. Some of the so-called "strugglers" may have already realized through their own n=1 experiments that they do indeed feel better on low carb but are struggling past cravings. Just because you have a carb craving it does not necessarily mean you NEED those carbs. Transitioning just takes time.
                      Last edited by Drumroll; 12-12-2012, 08:18 PM.
                      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        this forum is compromised of dogmatic low carb propaganda that is back up by the strong science of metabolic typing
                        Make America Great Again

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                          this forum is compromised of dogmatic low carb propaganda that is back up by the strong science of metabolic typing
                          I've never once bothered to tell anyone NOT to eat carbs (hell, I still do refeeds a couple of times a month maybe). No sense. I might recommend a low carb diet to someone who needs or wants to lose a few pounds rather quickly, but even then, the key word is "recommend." Pushing it on them still seems pointless beyond that. They have to decide for themselves.

                          But that's just me. I won't (and can't) speak for others.

                          And metabolic typing is not now (and never WILL be) an exact science. I would never claim it to be. In fact, I might agree with your contention that it's not a science at all. You can't always explain why one diet or WOE seems to work so well for you, it just DOES. And when you realize this, you just do it, even if you don't exactly know the science behind it. Eat the way that makes you feel the best. You don't ALWAYS have to have hard data or evidence to back it up. Personal experience about the way you feel should be enough. Feel great eating one way? Good! Keep it up! Feel crappy? Ok, then try something else!

                          A big part of the Primal Blueprint is being able to experiment with it and tweak it to your own individual needs, even if you can't always explain why a particular tweak seems to be working (or not working) for you.
                          "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            look, man, I never said I was talking about you. also you quoted an error in typing of mine, I meant to say comprised of. Anyway, I was just making a general statement pointing to no particular person.

                            I don't agree with anything you say, but at least you're fair from what I can tell.
                            Last edited by Derpamix; 12-12-2012, 08:42 PM.
                            Make America Great Again

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                            • #74
                              I knew what you meant. I assumed you meant to say comprised.

                              And maybe Mark Sisson barks up at the low carb tree a little heavily, sure. I'll admit that nutrition is very individual and making carb recommendations based on a curve that is supposed to apply to everyone is a little silly.

                              But hell, like I said, when you find a way of eating that makes you feel good, your body tends to just know this and I think you then naturally gravitate towards that. At least, you will once you've learned to recognize that your body is good at telling you these things. You can't always explain why something works, but if you've learned to trust your body then you'll realize you don't HAVE to always be able to explain it.

                              The biggest issue for SAD eaters is that they a) haven't learned to trust their bodies yet, and b) have usually only tried one way of eating. This leads to the perfect storm of "I feel fine eating this way, so why change it?" Ever noticed the amount of people who, when they cut out grains or dairy or whatever, suddenly have an "aha" moment and feel much better? It's hard to know something is NOT working if you've never tried anything else that might (key word might) work better.
                              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                                Maybe you meant to say it isn't a starch?
                                Yes, thank you. It was very late for me and my eyes were crossing from the many, many threads we've got on this board that start with someone saying Primal doesn't work for them and they are eating meat, meat, meat and maybe 3 bites of kale.

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