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Quality Carbs -- Starches and Greens

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  • #31
    Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    Most people here that seem to post of woes are probably eating under 50 grams of carbs, and some well below that. They post days of eating that don't include starches or fruits. I think there is a perception, deserved or not, that one has to be in ketosis to burn fat. However, it's a hard way for a lot of people to live. Mark does not seem to advocate this anyway, and suggests it for very obese, and I believe suggests some level of medical supervision. It is not a core tenet of the plan.
    This is the reason why I'm against the Carbohydrate Curve, and why it's the ruination of The Primal Blueprint. Like you said, simply eating normally, people are naturally going to eat <150g of carbs per day. Unless you are trying to squeeze in starch after a workout on purpose, you're probably not going to hit that every day. By mentioning it, he is drawing special attention to carbohydrate and accidentally demonizing it. People on this forum add too much fat to things, which just adds empty calories, and are too afraid of real food carbohydrate like fruit and potatoes. A medium sweet potato has just as many calories as a tablespoon of coconut oil, but people are going to get huge amounts of nutrients from a sweet potato while the coconut oil just adds empty calories.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: taking a spoon to a jar of oil is really no different than taking a spoon to a bag of sugar. Hell, molasses and honey are more nutrient-dense than coconut oil. I love my healthy fats, but they are cooking tools, not a food group. Embracing healthy fats and carbohydrates in the form of whole foods is the goal, here. Somewhere along the line, people got the idea that fruit makes them fat but eating slices of butter is good. It's not necessarily bad, but calories count if you want to lose weight.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
      I've said it before and I'll say it again: taking a spoon to a jar of oil is really no different than taking a spoon to a bag of sugar.
      As I understand things, there are a couple major differences. First, the sugar will be highly inflammatory and promote atherosclerosis and second, the sugar will, in some people, cause a very unhealthy spike in BG.

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      • #33
        He points out and draws attention to carbs for a reason. That is where the majority of SAD eating Korgs need to change their diet.

        Nobody is afraid of fruit or potatoes around here. In case you haven't noticed, the potato threads are all over this place.

        Why do you assume that everyone makes choices based on fear? I choose my woe based on how awesome it makes me feel, not because I am afraid of any particular food. I also choose based on personal preferences. I like steak but I don't like potatoes. Fruit is ok but slices of butter are yummy. Honey is gag-inducingly sweet to me. These are my personal preferences.

        I totally agree that fat or sugar in isolation are both pretty empty calories and that the emphasis should be on whole foods. My preference is for fat over sugar however if I have some extra calories in the daily budget. That's just me.

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        • #34
          Choco is not an outlier. He is speaking for the benefit of the clear majority on this site.
          F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
            Choco is not an outlier. He is speaking for the benefit of the clear majority on this site.
            Because it's his duty to tell the "vast majority" what a healthy diet is?

            Sounds like you've elevated him into the realm of a preacher. Just sayin'.
            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
              Choco is not an outlier. He is speaking for the benefit of the clear majority on this site.
              Choco is a young male body builder who has never been seriously ill or overweight in his life. That is very different than both you and me.

              This would be an interesting subject for a poll thread.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                Because it's his duty to tell the "vast majority" what a healthy diet is?

                Sounds like you've elevated him into the realm of a preacher. Just sayin'.
                Nope - just made a scientific analysis of his posts. And listened to genuine posters who haven't damaged their metabolisms beyond repair and don't have an axe to grind.
                F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by jakey View Post
                  the carb curve is some bullshit. can't wait till mark walks that one back, or admits that it's not real science, and is just a recommendation for inactive, out of shape people.
                  I agree. I think he makes the point in many of his posts that carbs are useful for active people and athletes.

                  However, I followed the low carb thing for a while, and I had little to show for it. Raising carbs and carb refeeding has made all the difference. Again, everyone has to experiment for themselves. It's been a long two years of experimenting for me with carbs, oils, fats, and every other magic bullet I read about on the forums. Now, it's just real food, no nut butters or flours, no guzzling oils, or special this or that. It's just meats, veggies and fruit. High carb on workout days, lower carb on non workout days, and I have seen real results finally. Carbs range from 25 to 300 depending on my schedule.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I agree with jakey too.
                    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
                      Nope - just made a scientific analysis of his posts. And listened to genuine posters who haven't damaged their metabolisms beyond repair and don't have an axe to grind.
                      Who said I have an axe to grind? I'm just tired of people making blanket statements that one way is "right for everyone" and that those that don't conform must somehow be "damaged."

                      Nutrition is individual, there is no one correct path that will lead to everyone's salvation. By that same token, choco is someone who's NEVER had weight or metabolism issues. Good for him. Not everyone can claim to be in that same boat. If he had had to battle weight, or other health issues in the past, I bet he'd be a little bit more open-minded about these things and not simply insist that everyone do what worked for him personally.

                      I'm happy that he's found success. The flaw in logic here is assuming "success for me = success for everyone." It will NEVER be that simple.
                      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Never say "Never".

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
                          Never say "Never".
                          Ah, well, if you can develop one nutritional plan that results in the total health of everyone who tries it and never fails, then by all means!

                          I'm all for it.
                          "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                            Who said I have an axe to grind? I'm just tired of people making blanket statements that one way is "right for everyone" and that those that don't conform must somehow be "damaged."

                            Nutrition is individual, there is no one correct path that will lead to everyone's salvation. By that same token, choco is someone who's NEVER had weight or metabolism issues. Good for him. Not everyone can claim to be in that same boat. If he had had to battle weight, or other health issues in the past, I bet he'd be a little bit more open-minded about these things and not simply insist that everyone do what worked for him personally.

                            I'm happy that he's found success. The flaw in logic here is assuming "success for me = success for everyone." It will NEVER be that simple.
                            Never stated it was that simple. Sound to me like you are projecting . It's just basic common sense that nutrition is individual. It's not even worth stating IMO, but thanks for your efforts.

                            And actually choco has had weight issues and has documented them.

                            You are making some very lazy assumptions.
                            F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Ah, yet it seems that someone who choses to eat a VLC diet must necessarily have damaged their metabolism to the point of being irrelevant to this debate?

                              That seems like a pretty blanket statement made with out regards to the individualistic nature of nutrition.
                              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                It's usually the case, hence the bitterness of those forced to eat low-carb towards the majority here who feel shit on a very low-carb diet.

                                If you're passionate about low carb I suggest you join a low-carb forum.

                                This is not a low-carb forum
                                F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                                Comment

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