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Quality Carbs -- Starches and Greens

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  • Originally posted by bluechip View Post
    I didn't think iceberg lettuce had any nutritional value other than fiber... Could you tell me where I could find out what aminos / nutritional info it has? (Normally I avoid Iceberg at the salad bar and go for spinach specifically based on nutritional info)
    Since it doesn't come across well in type....otzi was being sarcastic

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    • Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
      Ah, some maybe, but not all. I drink my tea and coffee straight, always have. None of this bulletproof nonsense for me. Heh.

      Though, to run a slight counter argument to that however, I would argue that the nutritional profile of several fat sources is quite amazing. Coconut oil has the MTCs which really do provide, long, stable and solid energy
      I'm going to stop you there and clarify.

      I am not a carbohydrate zealot by any means. I don't support a low fat diet, I don't support a high carbohydrate diet...I don't support any kind of diet. The reason why I always seem to support carbohydrate is because that's where the fear in this lifestyle lies. People around here don't fear dietary fat from animals and vegetable sources like coconut and palm. Lots of people are needlessly afraid of carbohydrate, so I come to their rescue. If the tables were turned and universally embraced potatoes and fruit and were scared of fats, I'd be having these same conversations supporting fats.

      Case and point: you will find me constantly defending nuts and olive oil. Lots of people are afraid of nuts because of PUFA content. Similarly, lots of people are afraid to heat extra virgin olive oil because it is low in saturated fat. That is all BS. Raw, unprocessed, whole walnuts may have a similar lipid profile to canola and soybean oil, but they are not even CLOSE on a nutritional scale. Nuts are real, whole foods. And study after study has shown extra virgin olive oil to be extremely resistant to oxidation - far more resistant than bacon grease, which people don't hesitate to cook with. The reason why is while bacon grease is richer in saturated fat, it contains no antioxidants while extra virgin olive oil is incredibly rich in antioxidants that prevent it from going rancid under heat.

      It's all context. I support the eating of real whole foods - meat, vegetables, fruits, starches, nuts - I do not discriminate. I am about avoiding grains, legumes, highly refined sugars and refined PUFA oils, not avoiding real foods because of macro breakdown.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • Originally posted by scott442
        Leafy green vegetables have more nutrition per calorie than any other food. Greens make up a significant source vitamins A, C, E and K as well as several B vitamins. They are rich sources of minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron and potassium. They are rich in fiber, extremely low in fat and carbohydrates and provide an excellent source of protein.
        1.) Vitamins A, E and K are fat soluble. Much of the nutrition is bound up in the fiber and not bioavailable, and you have to cook them very well and eat them alongside fat to absorb the nutrition.

        2.) Vegetarian protein sources are not very bioavailable. For example, 50% of the protein in beans and nuts are useless by the body. You have to eat over 200 grams of protein in peanuts to equal 100 grams of protein from eggs. They are also not complete protein - you can survive solely on eggs or milk for a very long period of time. If you do that with beans or nuts, you will die rather quickly. An exception to this rule is the white potato, but they're very low in protein.

        3.) The dietary fiber in greens is very rough on your digestive system and hard on your body to process. It is insoluble, not soluble like sweet potato, banana or white potato fiber.

        Greens are good for you, but they are supplemental, not a significant source of calories. You will survive better and healthier on an all-animal diet than an all-plant diet.

        But thanks for the troll ad.

        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
        Really? Please tell me this is spam....otherwise I've lost all faith in humanity.
        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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        • Originally posted by bluechip View Post
          I didn't think iceberg lettuce had any nutritional value other than fiber... Could you tell me where I could find out what aminos / nutritional info it has? (Normally I avoid Iceberg at the salad bar and go for spinach specifically based on nutritional info)
          I would label fiber an anti-nutrient before I would label it a nutrient. It binds to nutrients and keeps them unavailable to your body, then beats the crap out of your digestive system. At least insoluble vegetable fiber does. Soluble fiber from (non-grain) starches is the good stuff.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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          • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
            Since it doesn't come across well in type....otzi was being sarcastic
            He forgot to use the sarcastic font
            65lbs gone and counting!!

            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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            • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
              He forgot to use the sarcastic font
              Just joking...thinking back to how much grief we got when we talked about the potatoes amazing AA qualities...

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              • Thanks for clarifying. I was apparently naive enough to challenge my own thinking I googled it for over 30 minutes! Joke's on me this morning!
                Regards,
                ~ Chris

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                • Originally posted by otzi View Post
                  Just joking...thinking back to how much grief we got when we talked about the potatoes amazing AA qualities...
                  It wasn't the completeness go the potato's AA profile that got grief, we all seemed to agree on that. It was weather potatoes could adequately maintain muscle with such a low amount overall.

                  I still consider that one to be a bit up in the air. Annecdotal evidence is great, but I'd love more in-depth research.
                  "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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                  • Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                    It wasn't the completeness go the potato's AA profile that got grief, we all seemed to agree on that. It was weather potatoes could adequately maintain muscle with such a low amount overall.

                    I still consider that one to be a bit up in the air. Annecdotal evidence is great, but I'd love more in-depth research.
                    I think using the potato's AA profile is a kind of weak argument...it's there, no doubt, but 1mg of chicken breast also has a complete AA profile. Just because it's complete doesn't mean it's enough. I don't think a 'potatoes-only diet' provides enough AA to prevent lean muscle loss, but I also don't think much lean muscle will be lost over a 7-14 day period if the person has more than 8 or 10% body fat.

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                    • I'm sure that some individuals may lose a bit of muscle mass during a week-long strict potato diet, due to their body composition, and on how they exercise. So any individual needs to do a cost-benefit analysis re: muscle loss/fat loss, experiment and hone.

                      Anyone wanting to try PPD who's concerned about that could add in a little very lean protein. The two key factors contributing to the success of the PPD seem to be cutting fat intake drastically plus the satiety factor. So adding a little lean protein once a day is unlikely to spoil the effect. Anyone coming from VLC perma-ketosis needs to consider that their liver has a lot of adapting to do, and may carry on using amino acids for gluconeogenesis for a while. Context is everything.

                      My impression is that PPD seems to be most beneficial for those who aren't ultra-lean wanting to make weight maintenance easier, and those who have about 10-20 lbs or so left to lose.
                      F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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                      • This is a great thread, thanks for all the thought provoking opposing opinions. I've been eating potatoes and blueberries as my carbs, mostly because I can grow and harvest them. Local is my biggest rule. I hunt, fish, harvest, and grow about 50% of my food, but I'd like to make it more. I had been LC and even VLC for many months, and would like to revisit that, but for now I am craving, eating and enjoying a large number of carbs.

                        I'm very interested in knowing how much healing my body has had in one year of LC/IF/PRIMAL (and 60 pounds of weight lost) and how much more it can do. I think the healing can go on for a long time.

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                        • Originally posted by windypasswheeler View Post
                          This is a great thread, thanks for all the thought provoking opposing opinions. I've been eating potatoes and blueberries as my carbs, mostly because I can grow and harvest them. Local is my biggest rule. I hunt, fish, harvest, and grow about 50% of my food, but I'd like to make it more. I had been LC and even VLC for many months, and would like to revisit that, but for now I am craving, eating and enjoying a large number of carbs.

                          I'm very interested in knowing how much healing my body has had in one year of LC/IF/PRIMAL (and 60 pounds of weight lost) and how much more it can do. I think the healing can go on for a long time.
                          If you are craving carbs, consider that your body is now healed and you can enjoy eating more.
                          F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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                          • Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                            I'm trying to add some more carbs into my diet. I know leafy greens are generally understood to be the best (particularly in terms of weight maintenance), but I find a half cup of winter squash really satisfies me far more than 2, even 3 cups of raw greens.

                            If I'm measuring out the amount, and really stick to a 1/2 cup -- which comes to about 11 carbs -- is it an issue for me to eat winter squash every day? Does it matter whether the carbs are coming from starches or leafy greens if my carb count comes out the same?
                            I tend to lean towards mixing it up every day. One day carrots, one day squash, one day an apple. That's just me though. I agree that leafy greens aren't particularly filling, but I'd continue to eat some of them because they are full of good stuff. Although it might not matter that much whether you eat the same thing every day (I certainly don't know), I would try to add some variation. That way you'll get new nutrients every day in varying amounts, and not get bored of the same foods all the time. But 11 carbs is not a large amount, so I should think you'd be safe eating that in pretty much any form.

                            So the basic answer from me is it's not really an issue per se, and I don't know how much it matters where they come from but changing up the veggies and starches is never bad
                            Last edited by fresa; 12-16-2012, 02:10 PM. Reason: changed my mind on something...

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