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  • #31
    I dont think there is a thing as being fully fat adapted when it comes to exercise. Your body needs a bit of carbs as fuel even if you are doing slow steady state cardio. That is why all long distance runners and bikers take in glucose when racing. Once to up the intensity your body switches over to carbs mostly. So unless you do very slow jogging then you will need a bit of carbs.

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    • #32
      Not saying "fully". You most definitely can train to improve your fat oxidation and usage. That is why I said energy partitioning. Training fasted and eating low carb while in training are some proven methods. Of course come race time most will fuel up with everything they can and take advantage of their training. I personally don't compete so I just reap the benefits of the training in life.

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      • #33
        I'm going to echo the advice to add carbs...specifically in the form of starches like tubers and white rice. A few pieces of fruit and some veggies sounds low carb to me.

        My personal experience is somewhat similar to what you mentioned. I had a history of hypothyroid symptoms, though I was never officially diagnosed with anything. I went low carb paleo (no grains, no starches, no sugars - my only carbs came from fruit and veggies) for about a year...during that year my fatigue got worse and worse until I rarely had the energy to get off the couch. I made zero progress in the gym on my weights for a year. Seriously, I couldn't increase the weight on anything. My body temperature got lower, I was colder all the time, it was a slow and steady decline.

        When I lowered my fat and significantly added back carbs in the form of white rice, potatoes, occasionally some oatmeal or buckwheat, and organic sugar, my energy levels improved noticeably. I started improving in the gym with my very first high carb day. It was like magic.

        I've personally been using cold thermogenesis and high carb/sugar to improve my thyroid and overall energy/functioning, and I've noticed dramatic improvements in the past 6 months. Primal didn't work for me; I'm basically eating in line with The Perfect Health Diet, using some Ray Peat flourishes, and I'm doing much better. So if Primal isn't working for you, don't be afraid to experiment with some different ways of eating.

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        • #34
          I think provided you have good stores of glucose, you can train without carbs, but carb refeeds are a must.

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          • #35
            Lots of ultramarathoners implement vlc as a secret weapon to win races. It's not much of a secret anymore as now lots of them are doing it. Not having to eat anything (or very little) during a many hour race, not having to deal with the digestive distress of consuming food while running and not losing any strength or energy even while not eating is a huge benefit in a long distance race. Not all of them do this, of course, and some of the runners who live life low carb in regular life consume simple carbs during the race hoping for an edge in "train low, race high" terms.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
              Lots of ultramarathoners implement vlc as a secret weapon to win races. It's not much of a secret anymore as now lots of them are doing it. Not having to eat anything (or very little) during a many hour race, not having to deal with the digestive distress of consuming food while running and not losing any strength or energy even while not eating is a huge benefit in a long distance race. Not all of them do this, of course, and some of the runners who live life low carb in regular life consume simple carbs during the race hoping for an edge in "train low, race high" terms.
              Sounds real healthy and effective. I can see this working out great. Excellent secret weapon, thanks for bringing it to light.
              Make America Great Again

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              • #37
                Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                Lots of ultramarathoners implement vlc as a secret weapon to win races. It's not much of a secret anymore as now lots of them are doing it. Not having to eat anything (or very little) during a many hour race, not having to deal with the digestive distress of consuming food while running and not losing any strength or energy even while not eating is a huge benefit in a long distance race. Not all of them do this, of course, and some of the runners who live life low carb in regular life consume simple carbs during the race hoping for an edge in "train low, race high" terms.
                Timothy Olson: Another Low-Carb Athlete That Never Was? AnthonyColpo

                Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                Sounds real healthy and effective. I can see this working out great. Excellent secret weapon, thanks for bringing it to light.
                lol.

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                • #38
                  Again, thanks for all the additional advice.

                  So far I added 1/2 cup rice and a potato to dinner last night, and instead of yoghurt and nuts for breakfast I had 1/2 cup rice, tuna and left over veg. ..will do the same for tea tonight, and see how my energy goes on a ride tomorrow! Hopefully it works I don't really want to start drinking juice just to fuel my rides, as I am pretty sure that juice is one of the worst things you can drink...

                  Also I think someone asked the question about what speed/intensity i ride at? Generally not fast - I go for about 40-50mins, and have tonnes of cyclists over take me. It's more an enjoyment thing.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by lucy1984 View Post
                    as I am pretty sure that juice is one of the worst things you can drink...
                    Not even. Fruit juice is high in salicylates, they're very anti-inflammatory. Pulp free fresh squeezed orange juice is free of fiber, and contains an abundance of vitamins and minerals.
                    Make America Great Again

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by lucy1984 View Post
                      Again, thanks for all the additional advice.

                      So far I added 1/2 cup rice and a potato to dinner last night, and instead of yoghurt and nuts for breakfast I had 1/2 cup rice, tuna and left over veg. ..will do the same for tea tonight, and see how my energy goes on a ride tomorrow! Hopefully it works I don't really want to start drinking juice just to fuel my rides, as I am pretty sure that juice is one of the worst things you can drink...

                      Also I think someone asked the question about what speed/intensity i ride at? Generally not fast - I go for about 40-50mins, and have tonnes of cyclists over take me. It's more an enjoyment thing.
                      Well, you never know. I know plenty of people that thought they were working at a generally low intensity until they actually took their pulse and found out otherwise. The "low and slow" part of the PB really is quite slow until you train in that zone for a while and improve your aerobic conditioning so that you can go faster and stay in that zone. I prefer the fat burn route, but if I had to choose I'd definitely hit up the sweet potatoes or rice as part of a whole meal before I relied on some sugar bomb fruit drink.

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                      • #41
                        Your heart rate is important. I do easy satisfying low-level cardio at a heart rate of around 105-125 bpm. Starch is certainly optimal post-workout and preferable to sugar if you are looking for lean gains. White rice is the best source of carbs for spiking your insulin post-workout and building muscle.

                        Starch pre-workout has more value for strength-building.

                        I'm doing both.
                        F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by lucy1984 View Post
                          This was part of the reason I left the primal way of eating last time. I was on it for months and never seemed to be able to switch from sugar-burner to fat burner...
                          Any tips on what I can do nutritionally to give me some energy back?
                          Lucy
                          I'd try adding a bunch of coconut oil to your diet.

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                          • #43
                            when I was struggling with recovery issues a runner friend recommended "base training" low/med heart rate for long time/distance, for me at the time ment 120-130bpm and about run/walk 3-5mph. a month of that and my issues seem to have disapeared

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