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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jarrod Schroeder View Post
    Then what is the point of the body's ability to store energy (ie, fat) if organs and muscles take the hit during times of lean? Isn't fat meant to be the energy reserve?
    Look at long and short term fasting as two different tools to use for two different purposes.

    Short term (IF'ing) can be used to shed fat while retaining lean mass and reduce the number of insulin spikes and gastric effect in a day.

    Longer fasts are great for autophagy and for mental and spiritual purposes along with a generaly deeper detox.

    The longer fast is not as lean mass sparing because that is not its function. You very well may end up with less muscle after the fast, but it should be of higher quality (body breaks down dysfunctional motor units for protein first hypothetically). So asking "how I do a long fast and not lose muscle...." is going to be a bit paradoxical. You will retain a good amount but by virtue of the fast you will need to loose a little bit.

    Here is Mark's post if it helps you http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasti...#axzz2E1MFVx5D

    Then you can also search "Pklopp" for his posts and his website dedicated to IF'ing
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 12-03-2012, 01:21 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Leida View Post
      It might not be that traumatic, but I would still caution and advise to have a plan B. Long fasts + stress are not the best combination. I always thought a Zen kinda mindset with a fair bit of leisure, contemplation and outdoor access at all times is almost a must for a longer fast.
      That is probably why various monks (meaning different religions) do this with no apparent issues.
      Depression Lies

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      • #18
        I've started a 3 on, 4 off routine where I fast 72-hours and feed for 4 days. This is while working, and hitting the gym, and doing all my usual routine. Not that bad really and I think the whole muscle issue is a little inflated. I'm sure you'll be fine.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Diana Renata View Post
          I've started a 3 on, 4 off routine where I fast 72-hours and feed for 4 days. This is while working, and hitting the gym, and doing all my usual routine. Not that bad really and I think the whole muscle issue is a little inflated. I'm sure you'll be fine.
          I think organ atrophy like the thymus starts after 24 hours.

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          • #20
            That is probably why various monks (meaning different religions) do this with no apparent issues.
            *Nod*
            The lack of sexual expression helps as well.
            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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            • #21
              I personally can't get over the mental block to fast more than 24 hours. Even if I'm not bothered by hunger, my body is too used to eating once a day.
              F 28/5'4/100 lbs

              "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                Look at long and short term fasting as two different tools to use for two different purposes.

                Short term (IF'ing) can be used to shed fat while retaining lean mass and reduce the number of insulin spikes and gastric effect in a day.

                Longer fasts are great for autophagy and for mental and spiritual purposes along with a generaly deeper detox.

                The longer fast is not as lean mass sparing because that is not its function. You very well may end up with less muscle after the fast, but it should be of higher quality (body breaks down dysfunctional motor units for protein first hypothetically). So asking "how I do a long fast and not lose muscle...." is going to be a bit paradoxical. You will retain a good amount but by virtue of the fast you will need to loose a little bit.

                Here is Mark's post if it helps you Intermittent Fasting FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions | Mark's Daily Apple

                Then you can also search "Pklopp" for his posts and his website dedicated to IF'ing
                Agreed. I've done both shorter term (IF) and longer term (one week water) fasts. I had a great time on my longer fasts, but I was well prepared for them mentally. I was primal for quite a few months prior, and I was getting adequate sun and sleep (etc) with minimal stress (it was summer and the weather was gorgeous). Fasting was simply a "pause from eating" for me, and when I broke each fast, I "resumed eating". It sounds funny but it was almost enjoyable. I think how you approach the idea of fasting has a lot to do with whether or not it's successful for you. I knew I would lose a small amount of lean mass each time, but that's a trade I was willing to make for what I would get in return.

                To the OP, it sounds like you're approaching your decision to fast positively, so I offer encouragement, and I'll keep an eye on your progress.

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                • #23
                  There are several fasting threads with lots of information (not so alarmist) that you can read if you search for fast and fasting on these threads.

                  If you have 70-80 pounds of fat to spare, I don't think you will be doing yourself any harm as long as you stay hydrated, with some salts and minerals in the mix. An epsom salt bath maybe, but I think enemas are no longer de rigeur. I broke my longest fast (4 1/2 days) with raw fish and some seaweed salad- but only because I LOVE sushi and sashimi- no special routine. Of course, this is for REAL food- don't go popping junk into your system.

                  All other advice aside, I would say the most important thing to do is pay attention to your body. It will tell you are going too far, at least within the compass of a week. (After several weeks, your brain can find it difficult to judge hunger accurately- both ways.)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Zach View Post
                    I think organ atrophy like the thymus starts after 24 hours.
                    I found nothing relating to this. If you have links, instead of "I think," that would be helpful.

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                    • #25
                      Starvation Mode - Why You Probably Never Need to Worry About It - Fitness Black Book

                      Here's some actual science.

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                      • #26
                        i'm just wondering how the fasting is going! don't leave us hanging!

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                        • #27
                          I hope it goes well! The longest I have gone is about 30 hours, with no problems. As for metabolic slow-down, according to Brad Pilon of Eat Stop Eat, this occurs after 72 hours. I doubt it will be a huge problem for you, but something to keep in mind.
                          "Itís not about how strong you are, itís how well you can move with that strength."

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                          • #28
                            Wow! A lot of great discussion going on here! I'm surprised to see so many posts, haha.

                            Today's weight: 294.4
                            Blood pressure: 136/86
                            Heart rate: 100

                            My blood pressure's been fairly high for some time-- hovering around the Stage I hypertension mark. The above number is still practically in that range. Hoping to see a drop in both BP and HR in the days to come!

                            I was feeling hungry before bed and my stomach was making the strangest noises. After about 7 hours of restful sleep however, I feel great! Plenty of energy and no brain fog or fatigue. As of this post, I've been fasting about 32 hours.

                            I read an interesting article referenced elsewhere on this forum from Harper's Magazine: "Starve Your Way to Vigor". It was very interesting to read about the author's 20 day fast, and I'm considering-- if I feel well enough at the end of this week-long fast-- to just keep fasting until Christmas. Certainly that's going to seem extreme to some in this thread. We'll see how things go this week. One day at a time.

                            To everyone in this thread-- thanks for your interest and for your concern! I appreciate all of the responses!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Diana Renata View Post
                              I found nothing relating to this. If you have links, instead of "I think," that would be helpful.
                              Yea no i idea where i read that and googling brings up only rat studies and studies that show "stress from starvation" will cause atrophy but does not say how long. Wiki says it takes 72 hours to start the breakdown of proteins. So anything under 3 days and you are probably safe.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Zach View Post
                                I think organ atrophy like the thymus starts after 24 hours.
                                I've read something like this too. Hans Selye? It was an experiment on rats, but he reported a severe atrophy after 4 days of fasting and 48 hours it began to decrease in size.
                                Make America Great Again

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