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  • #31
    Originally posted by Kingofturtles View Post
    I doubt the study was incorrect, I don't doubt I misunderstood it tho.

    How about this one The straight dope on cholesterol
    "The role of sugar"
    My belief was that all carbs are broken down into sugar.

    Let me know ur take on it pls
    I skimmed the article and a few linked articles. I can't seem to find what was fed to any of the patients. What is common is that when studies slam sugar it is usually sourced from junk food like pop tarts and soda. They even mention corn syrup which is only found in junk food and not including complex carbs which are usually healthier foods. Often times these tests are simply detecting how bad junk food is. It is quite annoying when they don't lay out exactly what food they are using they just say "sugar and fructose" which could be a lot of things.

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    • #32
      I agree, it's as bad as the studies where the "high fat diet" consists primarily of processed/hydrogenated vegetable oils (as in the case of the high-fat rat chow used in many animal studies).

      We are very insistent around here that there's a difference between soybean oil and butter; why do we not grasp that there's a world of difference between isolated fructose and an apple?

      I realize there are reasons to eat a ketogenic diet and that some people also find that limiting carbs helps control binge eating, but that does not make all carbohydrates inherently bad. It means that for some conditions a VLC diet may be therapeutic.

      I can go on a massive cheese binge if there's brie in the house but can easily stop eating after one small potato or a small quantity of rice. That doesn't make the fat in the cheese a problem--it means that *I* have a problem with overeating certain types of high-fat soft cheese (and I am not the only person with this issue). And I can tell you that it's very, very easy to eat massively over your TDEE when you down a couple of hundred grams of brie, and that despite it being very low carb, that much cheese can still quite easily make one fat.
      “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

      Owly's Journal

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      • #33
        Sometimes, I get all insensitive up in this brain of mine and wish I could hold you "I REALLY can't have carbs!" people down and force feed you plantains fried in coconut oil. You'd be mortified at first, but then a smile would grace your face and you'd thank me forever.
        I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
          Yes some carbs are better than others, but they all still spike blood sugar and can lead to weight gain.
          Sugar spiking isn't a bad thing, it's how we humans are designed to deal with digestion. And I personally don't gain weight from carbs. In fact, eating higher carb/lower fat has allowed me to successfully lose most of the weight I gained from my disasterous high fat/low carb primal experiment. There's more to fat gain than just spiking blood sugar a few times a day.


          Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
          The problem with the term "good" vs. "bad" is that it doesn't allow for variences and assumes "that carb is good, you can eat as much of it as you want." "That carb is bad, never eat it."
          Does that mean that if 'the fat is good', you can eat as much of it as you want? Of course not. Yet we talk about 'good' fats all the time here to differentiate between high quality, grassfed saturated fats vs. rancid PUFAs. The act of refering to something as being 'good' doesn't imply that it's okay to consume excessively any more than describing something as being 'bad' means it should never, ever be done. (Alcohol is bad, technically a neurotoxin, but when consumed in moderation for most people, it's not a problem).

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          • #35
            Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
            Sugar spiking isn't a bad thing, it's how we humans are designed to deal with digestion. And I personally don't gain weight from carbs. In fact, eating higher carb/lower fat has allowed me to successfully lose most of the weight I gained from my disasterous high fat/low carb primal experiment. There's more to fat gain than just spiking blood sugar a few times a day.
            You can't just assume that everyone is going to react the way you do though. Nutrition is highly individual. Some people do better with more carbs and some people do better on a low carb diet. The fallacy is that just because we label something as "good," we assume it must be good for everyone. This is not the case. Different people, different reactions.

            Some people (myself included), have quite a sensitivity to carbs, blood sugar spiking, and weight gain. I tend to binge on carbs myself, unfortunately. To assume that because it worked for you, it will for everyone is a fallacy. My goal here is not to demonize carbs as a macro but rather to get folks to understand that it's all about your personal n=1.

            What irks me about this place is when a lot of you guys discover something for yourself or get an idea in your head, you assume it must be true for everyone and forget how individual things like nutrition really are. I'm not meaning to single you out but just saying my own piece on the matter.
            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by dirlot View Post
              yea, people often say carbs instead of grains. The confusion comes from the fact that in cw most of the carbs people eat come from grains. But you are right there are lots of good sources of carbs that avoid eating grains.
              cw?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by lifechanger View Post
                cw?
                CW =Conventional Wisdom. There is a whole list of Primal acronyms around here someplace....

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                  You can't just assume that everyone is going to react the way you do though. Nutrition is highly individual. Some people do better with more carbs and some people do better on a low carb diet. The fallacy is that just because we label something as "good," we assume it must be good for everyone. This is not the case. Different people, different reactions.

                  Some people (myself included), have quite a sensitivity to carbs, blood sugar spiking, and weight gain. I tend to binge on carbs myself, unfortunately. To assume that because it worked for you, it will for everyone is a fallacy. My goal here is not to demonize carbs as a macro but rather to get folks to understand that it's all about your personal n=1.

                  What irks me about this place is when a lot of you guys discover something for yourself or get an idea in your head, you assume it must be true for everyone and forget how individual things like nutrition really are. I'm not meaning to single you out but just saying my own piece on the matter.
                  Isn't the "all carbs are bad" stance essentially the same error? Simply because you have a sensitivity to carbs does not then translate to carbs being problematic for all people. I hear you arguing that all carbs are bad to some extent (just some are more bad), which is the same fallacy you're accusing others of making. Most carbs being bad for you is not the same as most carbs being bad for everyone. You clearly have some metabolic sensitivity to higher carb intake combined with problems with binge eating carbs, so for your condition, perhaps very low carb is best. You cannot generalize that to all people.

                  Some carbs are more problematic for health than others. Some fats are more problematic for health than others. For some people, quantity of either macronutrient is also an issue. That does not inherently make carbohydrates or fats good or bad, simply that they are varying levels of quality within those very broad categories and varying levels of intake which seem to be ideal for certain people.
                  “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                  Owly's Journal

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                    Some people (myself included), have quite a sensitivity to carbs, blood sugar spiking, and weight gain. I tend to binge on carbs myself, unfortunately. To assume that because it worked for you, it will for everyone is a fallacy. My goal here is not to demonize carbs as a macro but rather to get folks to understand that it's all about your personal n=1.
                    The problem is you're diagnosing yourself with this mysterious ailment known as carbohydrate sensitivity for which the cure is simply avoiding carbohydrates. That's a symptom of an actual problem. I don't know a blood sugar spiking problem is; blood sugar is supposed to spike when you eat carbohydrates, and it's long been established what a normal blood sugar curve looks like for an insulin sensitive individual, so if you have impaired glucose tolerance, that's a problem that needs addressing (or not, if you like avoiding carbohydrates).

                    Carbohydrates didn't break your body. A broken body can't handle carbohydrates.

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                    • #40
                      I never once said "all carbs are bad." In fact, I never made that assertion, even for myself! I merely have said that carbs, regardless of the source, tend to make me binge. I may gain some benefits from carb consumption, but if that's at the expense of an unnecessary binge, then no thanks.

                      I recognize the individuality of nutrition, the wide variability of things and situations and personal needs. I admit that some people do better on high carbs and some need lower carbs. What I am hoping to avoid is people extrapolating for themselves and tossing that on me or others without a second thought.

                      Also, despite my love for fat, I realize that it is hardly the king of all macros. Especially with all of the crap oils out there that I work so hard to avoid (at least for my personal n=1). Don't ever assume I'm screaming at people to drink olive oil from the bottle and shove pork belly and/or untrimmed beef brisket down their throats.

                      I know that just as I have a sensitivity to high carbs, some people have a sensitivity to high fats. In fact, I despise the terms "good" vs. "bad" for almost any macro and not just carbs. Find what makes you feel good and stick to it. If that's lots of prepackaged meals with grains and no veggies, who am I to judge?

                      If you feel good on the all potato or rice diet, great! Just don't push it on me simply because it worked for you. That's my issue with "good" and "bad." Too many people assume that good means everyone should eat it it and never worry and that "bad" things NEVER have a reasonable place in someone's own personal n=1 and should be avoided at all costs. It's never so black and white.
                      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Tim, my glucose metabolism is fine. It always has been. I'm not sure what the cause of my binging is and I never claimed I knew the cause either. I do know that my blood sugar stays within a healthy range most of the time and I am perfectly capable of dealing with any resultant insulin spike from eating carbs.

                        I'm not "afraid" of insulin or anything. My concern is even more, that if something makes me binge, I lose control of myself. And that, is scarier to me than any resultant blood sugar spike. I never want to feel out of control like that.

                        My fear isn't the metabolic effects of carbs.

                        But let me put it this way... You'd never encourage an alcoholic (who loses control of themselves around alcohol) to have "a few drinks" would you? No, the best strategy is abstinence. I think you can extrapolate where I'm going with this. And no, I'm not a "zero carber."
                        "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I understand. I just got the impression you had some metabolic problems when you said you were "sensitive" to them. No worries.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                            I understand. I just got the impression you had some metabolic problems when you said you were "sensitive" to them. No worries.
                            I might be mentally sensitive to them. If you get what I mean... It's not so much that my glucose metabolism isn't healthy, but maybe the resultant spike in blood sugar is a mental trigger of something. I dunno, pure speculation here.
                            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Acellular and cellular carbs are definitely different to the body.
                              Comparison with ancestral diets suggests dense acellular carbohydrates
                              Mark has talked about this too. Search the words on this site fore more info.

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                              • #45
                                bad carbs(hard to digest): green vegetables
                                bad carbs(stressful) legumes, grains
                                good carbs: fruit, milk sugar, white sugar, roots and tubers

                                I might be mentally sensitive to them. If you get what I mean... It's not so much that my glucose metabolism isn't healthy, but maybe the resultant spike in blood sugar is a mental trigger of something. I dunno, pure speculation here.
                                This sounds like something you get when you spend time on a restrictive diet. Ignore the binging for a while, you'll eventually treat carbs like any other food after you get used to them.

                                Your body is governed by quantum mechanics. I bet everything you're having a problem with is placebo because you except problems and binging. Treat it like everything else(it's just fucking food, man) and it won't mean anything.
                                Make America Great Again

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