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Normal?--Going carb crazy even with a little bit of carbs?

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  • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I think people do vary, but "carb sensitivity" is not as common as people think. I don't think carbs are bad for anyone, just like fat isn't bad for anyone. I think the carb paranoia on this website is on par with the old fat paranoia.... For the vast, VAST majority, good carbs simply are not an issue
    Just how vast is the vast majority? Did you know that 98% of statistics are made up on the spot to support the point being made?

    Also, I really think it's hard to accuse a board that has half a dozen threads devoted to spuds of having, "carb paranoia".

    Carb tolerance/intolerance is a spectrum, not an either you have it or you don't condition. There are a lot of people here who are severely carb sensitive with that sensitivity manifesting itself in many different ways. Some have cravings/binging issues, some have weight gain, some have digestive issues, some have neurological issues such as myself and Cori. Many have some combination of the above. These are not things that are readily quantifiable but also things that should not be dismissed.

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    • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      Just how vast is the vast majority? Did you know that 98% of statistics are made up on the spot to support the point being made?

      Also, I really think it's hard to accuse a board that has half a dozen threads devoted to spuds of having, "carb paranoia".

      Carb tolerance/intolerance is a spectrum, not an either you have it or you don't condition. There are a lot of people here who are severely carb sensitive with that sensitivity manifesting itself in many different ways. Some have cravings/binging issues, some have weight gain, some have digestive issues, some have neurological issues such as myself and Cori. Many have some combination of the above. These are not things that are readily quantifiable but also things that should not be dismissed.
      Exactly.
      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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      • I don't doubt that there are people who physically can't eat a lot of carbs. If you've done the experimentation, and it works for you, don't eat them.

        But I see a parallel for most people to the whole low fat/fat free movement. Fat is bad, I can't have fat, I go overboard on fat.... yes, because you deny yourself fat and well, most people need fat. The same thing probably happens with all of the macronutrients. Obviously, if eating a sweet potato causes a seizure, do eat low carb. Or if over months, you just don't shed fat if you eat carbs, no matter what else you eat. But I think most people would be better served learning how to intergrate all of the macros into their diet, not just saying "well, I ate an apple, then ate three, so I won't eat carbs".

        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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        • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
          I don't doubt that there are people who physically can't eat a lot of carbs. If you've done the experimentation, and it works for you, don't eat them.

          But I see a parallel for most people to the whole low fat/fat free movement. Fat is bad, I can't have fat, I go overboard on fat.... yes, because you deny yourself fat and well, most people need fat. The same thing probably happens with all of the macronutrients. Obviously, if eating a sweet potato causes a seizure, do eat low carb. Or if over months, you just don't shed fat if you eat carbs, no matter what else you eat. But I think most people would be better served learning how to intergrate all of the macros into their diet, not just saying "well, I ate an apple, then ate three, so I won't eat carbs".
          There is a physical need for fat in the body (The brain is over 60% fat). If you deny the body all fat for too long, yes it will rebel and scarf down the nearest bucket of KFC (now proudly "trans-fat free"). There is no requirement by the body however for dietary carbs beyond those which occur incidentally in meat, veggies, etc. Through gluconeogenesis, the body creates all the carbs it needs from the protein you eat.

          The, OMG, I just have to have a cookie or I am going to die, feeling is either a metabolism that is not fully fat adapted and therefor still having blood sugar roller-coaster rides, or else it is a mental craving (comfort food). Some would argue that it is sugar addiction talking. I have never been in those shoes (binging/addictive behavior) so I'm not really sure about that question.

          Bottom line. Fat is essential in your diet, carbs are not. "Essential" in the sense that it is something you need and can't make your own.

          That said, I have no problem with someone who can metabolically, mentally, etc, handle carbs well, adding a spud to their Primal diet if they have the "room" in their calorie budget. Personally, I would rather have seconds on the steak.
          Last edited by Paleobird; 11-27-2012, 10:00 AM.

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          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
            There is a physical need for fat in the body (The brain is over 60% fat). If you deny the body all fat for too long, yes it will rebel and scarf down the nearest bucket of KFC (now proudly "trans-fat free"). There is no requirement by the body however for dietary carbs beyond those which occur incidentally in meat, veggies, etc. Through gluconeogenesis, the body creates all the carbs it needs from the protein you eat.
            This is unbelievably ignorant. In gluconeogenesis a stress hormone is working full time to supply your body with glucose. Not only that, it's breaking down protein and amino acids, and since you advocate a diet rich in cysteine and trytophan, you're further damaging your thyroid function and accelerating cell aging.

            Metabolically, fats don't add much of anything. The "your brain is 60% fats therefore you need dietary fat" is logical fallacy at its finest. Your body will also make plenty of saturated fats from excessive carbohydrate consumption. So, why, exactly do I need a diet rich in fat again?

            The, OMG, I just have to have a cookie or I am going to die, feeling is either a metabolism that is not fully fat adapted and therefor still having blood sugar roller-coaster rides, or else it is a mental craving (comfort food). Some would argue that it is sugar addiction talking. I have never been in those shoes (binging/addictive behavior) so I'm not really sure about that question.
            You're not in those shoes because your body is intentionally slowing down your metabolic rate so you don't run out of tissues while you're under extreme durations of stress.


            That said, I have no problem with someone who can metabolically, mentally, etc, handle carbs well, adding a spud to their Primal diet if they have the "room" in their calorie budget. Personally, I would rather have seconds on the steak.
            Oh, it's a good thing Paleobird has no problem with someone adding a "spud" to their primal diet. I guess it's okay to eat some potatoes since Paleobird has no problem with it.
            Last edited by Derpamix; 11-27-2012, 04:20 PM.
            Make America Great Again

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            • I'm not going to have an argument with someone who has bought the gospel of Ray Peat hook line and sinker. Just not worth it.

              Go drink your Coca Cola and eat your gummi bears and chill out, girl.

              I really don't know why you even bother to post here. You remind me of Barefoot Gentile and his sandwich threads.
              Last edited by Paleobird; 11-27-2012, 04:33 PM.

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              • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                I have nothing to say and I'm trying to save face. Someone else please come argue with this person on the internet so I can do what I do best which is fling shit comments from the safety of the side.
                The summary of your post. And, I'd rather trip on acid and down some aspirin pills. Could still formulate a better argument than "your brain is fat, therefore you need dietary fat". I'll be sure to relay that message to my friend who has a fat belly as well. Feed the fat.

                No idea who that is, but if I remind you of him then you must have had similar responses to this person as well. If he's a sandwich advocate, that's even more humorous.
                Make America Great Again

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                • Then there was that Jim Hensen guy who kept advocating wheat consumption was good for you. Equally puzzling as to why he was here.

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                  • We're public servants. We're all also the same exact person. Blew your mind, didn't I?
                    Make America Great Again

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                    • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                      We're public servants. We're all also the same exact person. Blew your mind, didn't I?
                      That's sweet of you. And I wouldn't doubt for a minute that the three of you were the same desperate person having some irrational need to bang your virtual head against the Primal wall.

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                      • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        The, OMG, I just have to have a cookie or I am going to die, feeling is either a metabolism that is not fully fat adapted and therefor still having blood sugar roller-coaster rides, or else it is a mental craving (comfort food). Some would argue that it is sugar addiction talking. .
                        Paleobird, it could be gliadin addiction from the dwarf hybrid wheat talking. William Davis wrote about it in Wheat Belly, and David Kessler wrote about it in The End of Overeating. This new wheat binds to dopamine receptors so you want to eat more, like every three hours. Maybe that's how "six small meals" wormed its way into CW. It's a mild addiction made legitimate.

                        The cravings aspect of your "carb sensitivity" spectrum could be referring more specifically to modern glutens and/or simple sugars, not just carbs in general. Of course the other sensitivies -- allergies acne GERD insulin etc -- have their own spectrum. And different people are more or less susceptible.
                        5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

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                        • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          That's sweet of you. And I wouldn't doubt for a minute that the three of you were the same desperate person having some irrational need to bang your virtual head against the Primal wall.
                          I kinda thought Derpamix was the same as Fiercehunter.

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                          • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                            Honestly, I have no idea what you're rambling on about.
                            You've made that abundantly clear...and restating the same things over and over doesn't make them truer. Let me lay it out in simple terms:
                            • The original document is NOT A PEER-REVIEWED JOURNAL ARTICLE. It's a self-reported experiment. That is why it's not listed in Pubmed.
                            • 2.5 years later, the experiment has still not been published in a peer-reviewed journal (again, check Pubmed).
                            • Therefore, one of two things has happened: either the article didn't pass peer-review, or the authors realized that their conclusions were prima facie silly and decided not to submit it.


                            Anyone who thinks you can dissolve 1.5 cups of partially-hydrolyzed cornstarch in 1.5 cups of carbonated water -- let alone produce anything resembling soda -- hasn't stopped to think about the problem.

                            JS

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                            • Originally posted by J. Stanton View Post
                              You've made that abundantly clear...and restating the same things over and over doesn't make them truer. Let me lay it out in simple terms:
                              • The original document is NOT A PEER-REVIEWED JOURNAL ARTICLE. It's a self-reported experiment. That is why it's not listed in Pubmed.
                              • 2.5 years later, the experiment has still not been published in a peer-reviewed journal (again, check Pubmed).
                              • Therefore, one of two things has happened: either the article didn't pass peer-review, or the authors realized that their conclusions were prima facie silly and decided not to submit it.


                              Anyone who thinks you can dissolve 1.5 cups of partially-hydrolyzed cornstarch in 1.5 cups of carbonated water -- let alone produce anything resembling soda -- hasn't stopped to think about the problem.

                              JS
                              It's not, after hydrolyzing it, they discovered the polysaccharides(the cornstarch material) with 4-5 times as many calories as normal. Those polysaccharides aren't easily digested by human enzymes. They supposedly contribute to the intestines producing more serotonin. I don't understand where you're having difficulty understanding how this "fits" in.

                              Ray Peat has published an article on this study. Again, it's a theory. No, it's not on Pubmed, I already know. There are also studies on HFCS causing irritable bowel syndrome and several other issues. My original point was to clarify just how different HFCS is compared to sucrose, fructose, etc
                              Make America Great Again

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                              • Originally posted by oxide View Post
                                Paleobird, it could be gliadin addiction from the dwarf hybrid wheat talking. William Davis wrote about it in Wheat Belly, and David Kessler wrote about it in The End of Overeating. This new wheat binds to dopamine receptors so you want to eat more, like every three hours. Maybe that's how "six small meals" wormed its way into CW. It's a mild addiction made legitimate.

                                The cravings aspect of your "carb sensitivity" spectrum could be referring more specifically to modern glutens and/or simple sugars, not just carbs in general. Of course the other sensitivies -- allergies acne GERD insulin etc -- have their own spectrum. And different people are more or less susceptible.
                                I definitely agree that this plays a role for many people. And yes, digestive sensitivities are only one possible manifestation.

                                Originally posted by MarissaLinnea View Post
                                I kinda thought Derpamix was the same as Fiercehunter.
                                Hah! You're right. There is a strong resemblance in writing style. Plus the same disconnect from reality.

                                Originally posted by J. Stanton View Post
                                You've made that abundantly clear...and restating the same things over and over doesn't make them truer. Let me lay it out in simple terms:
                                • The original document is NOT A PEER-REVIEWED JOURNAL ARTICLE. It's a self-reported experiment. That is why it's not listed in Pubmed.
                                • 2.5 years later, the experiment has still not been published in a peer-reviewed journal (again, check Pubmed).
                                • Therefore, one of two things has happened: either the article didn't pass peer-review, or the authors realized that their conclusions were prima facie silly and decided not to submit it.


                                Anyone who thinks you can dissolve 1.5 cups of partially-hydrolyzed cornstarch in 1.5 cups of carbonated water -- let alone produce anything resembling soda -- hasn't stopped to think about the problem.

                                JS
                                Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                                But, but, but, but Ray Peat said so.........
                                The summary of your post.
                                Last edited by Paleobird; 11-27-2012, 11:32 PM.

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