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Normal?--Going carb crazy even with a little bit of carbs?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
    You cannot make a blanket statement that there are certain carbs that are just "good" for everyone.
    I agree. There are carbs that are not harmful for some people under some circumstances but that is more about "less bad" than actually "good". Just because you are a lucky person for whom a particular form of carbs does not cause a problem *at this time*, that does not necessarily make it good for you in the long run.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      I agree. There are carbs that are not harmful for some people under some circumstances but that is more about "less bad" than actually "good". Just because you are a lucky person for whom a particular form of carbs does not cause a problem *at this time*, that does not necessarily make it good for you in the long run.
      Yep, although I think it's more that I proved I just can't be trusted around carbs, "primal approved" or not.

      Let some call me weak-willed if they may, I will not deny it.
      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
        Yep, although I think it's more that I proved I just can't be trusted around carbs, "primal approved" or not.
        Let some call me weak-willed if they may, I will not deny it.
        Phinney and Volek refer to it as degrees of carbohydrate tolerance or intolerance. You are not weak willed, you are just very carb sensitive.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
          Phinney and Volek refer to it as degrees of carbohydrate tolerance or intolerance. You are not weak willed, you are just very carb sensitive.
          Amen to that, amen to that...

          Ugh. I hate being that way though.
          "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by J. Stanton View Post
            Functional lifespan is decreasing in America. Our ability to keep sick people alive keeps improving - but our state of health is declining. The curve turned downward in 1998.

            "The average number of healthy years has decreased since 1998. We spend fewer years of our lives without disease, even though we live longer.

            A male 20-year-old in 1998 could expect to live another 45 years without at least one of the leading causes of death: cardiovascular disease, cancer or diabetes. That number fell to 43.8 years in 2006, the loss of more than a year. For young women, expected years of life without serious disease fell from 49.2 years to 48 years over the last decade.

            At the same time, the number of people who report lack of mobility has grown, starting with young adults. Functional mobility was defined as the ability to walk up ten steps, walk a quarter mile, stand or sit for 2 hours, and stand, bend or kneel without using special equipment.

            A male 20-year-old today can expect to spend 5.8 years over the rest of his life without basic mobility, compared to 3.8 years a decade ago an additional two years unable to walk up ten steps or sit for two hours. A female 20-year-old can expect 9.8 years without mobility, compared to 7.3 years a decade ago."
            People live shitty, stressful, sedentary lifestyles. This is news!


            I'm glad you've never been fat and never had a problem processing carbs and sugar. Neither have I! However, I'm not willing to extrapolate my N=1 to the rest of the world, many of whom clearly do have such a problem. (There's this thing called "metabolic flexibility"...)

            Yes, I personally eat a more Perfect Health Diet level of carbs. However, I don't feel it necessary to tell everyone who does better on VLC that they're Doing It Wrong and will inevitably wreck their thyroid/adrenals/whatever, because I don't see evidence that this is the case.

            For instance: intermittent fasting. I'd say that IF counts as carb restriction...for 16-20 of 24 hours, you're eating no carbs at all. Furthermore, your liver doesn't contain enough glycogen to run your brain and blood cells for 16-20 hours, and your body will never let your liver get that low on glycogen anyway...so if you IF (or, even more impressively, ADF), you're going to be undergoing OMG GLUCONEOGENESIS CORTISOL ADRENAL FATIGUE!!!11!!1 for much of the day.

            Yet I don't see legions of Peatarians and Potato Dieters rushing to excoriate Martin Berkhan or IF protocols.

            A few tips:
            1. Just because something works for you doesn't mean it'll work for the rest of the world.
            2. Just because something works for you doesn't mean something else might not work even better.
            3. Therefore, be cautious about getting all evangelistic about your individual dietary protocol.

            I've criticized IF plenty. If you have problems with carbs, you have other issues going on, simple as. Macronutrient balance is essential. Everything works together. If you cannot digest sugar on its own, take it along side a little bit of protein so it's less stressful. Protein pulls blood sugar down. If you balance your nutrients your glucose levels will be stable and long lasting. There is no reason to entirely cut out carbs.
            Make America Great Again

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
              I've criticized IF plenty. If you have problems with carbs, you have other issues going on, simple as. Macronutrient balance is essential. Everything works together. If you cannot digest sugar on its own, take it along side a little bit of protein so it's less stressful. Protein pulls blood sugar down. If you balance your nutrients your glucose levels will be stable and long lasting. There is no reason to entirely cut out carbs.
              *facepalm*

              Why can't you accept that for some people, this just doesn't work? Everyone is different, everyone's body reacts differently to different levels of macros. We do not all function the same way with sugar, be it from fruit or otherwise.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by MarissaLinnea View Post
                *facepalm*

                Why can't you accept that for some people, this just doesn't work? Everyone is different, everyone's body reacts differently to different levels of macros. We do not all function the same way with sugar, be it from fruit or otherwise.
                Indeed. Some of us are verifiable fat-burning beasts (I tend to be like that), and others of us are more effective burning sugars. There is not a one-size-fits-all solution.

                Even some people who feel better on carbs still have to be careful because for them, they might go overboard with being able to control intake to a reasonable level. There are just so many aspects to consider.
                "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                Comment


                • #98
                  I'm pretty sure that this weekend I proved that I can't be trusted even with the "good carbs."

                  I had a few meals that were gluten free but had fair amounts of squash, sweet potatoes, and the like and I STILL felt bloated and lousy afterwards.

                  You cannot make a blanket statement that there are certain carbs that are just "good" for everyone.
                  I think people do vary, but "carb sensitivity" is not as common as people think. I don't think carbs are bad for anyone, just like fat isn't bad for anyone. I think the carb paranoia on this website is on par with the old fat paranoia.... For the vast, VAST majority, good carbs simply are not an issue

                  http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                  Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                    People live shitty, stressful, sedentary lifestyles. This is news!
                    Don't move the goalposts. Here's your original quote:

                    Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                    Also, no one is "dropping dead". Life expectancy in 1st world countries is quite high. People may be unhealthy, but our life expectancy rate is much higher than it was before.
                    I showed that our functional lifespan is currently decreasing, and that the continued increase in life expectancy is therefore due to better health care in the face of deteriorating health.

                    Also, it's funny to see you trolling by defining HFCS as "not sugar", with some bizarre pseudoscientific claptrap about "HFCS in studies has been shown to have 500% and upwards of calories because of undigested cornstarch molecules." Citation? I'm pretty sure HFCS can't be more than 100% cornstarch...and I'm also pretty sure the real figure rounds down to 0%.

                    <plonk>

                    There's apparently something about extreme diets that compels their practitioners to troll. The more prescriptive and restrictive the diet is, the more evangelistic people seem to get about it. Peatarianism is just the latest example of that.

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                    • Originally posted by J. Stanton View Post
                      The more prescriptive and restrictive the diet is, the more evangelistic people seem to get about it. Peatarianism is just the latest example of that.
                      not really into this thread, but i'd love to know your thoughts on ray peat, JS. i think the guy is out where the cows don't roam...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by J. Stanton View Post
                        Don't move the goalposts. Here's your original quote:



                        I showed that our functional lifespan is currently decreasing, and that the continued increase in life expectancy is therefore due to better health care in the face of deteriorating health.
                        What you're essentially doing is paraphrasing me pointlessly.

                        Life expectancy in 1st world countries is quite high. People may be unhealthy, but our life expectancy rate is much higher than it was before. Comfortable lifestyles and modern medical sciences' ability to treat acute infection aids in this, but processed food isn't just killing people on the spot, sorry.
                        Also, it's funny to see you trolling by defining HFCS as "not sugar", with some bizarre pseudoscientific claptrap about "HFCS in studies has been shown to have 500% and upwards of calories because of undigested cornstarch molecules." Citation? I'm pretty sure HFCS can't be more than 100% cornstarch...and I'm also pretty sure the real figure rounds down to 0%.
                        Here you go:

                        Carbohydrate Analysis of High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) Containing Commercial Beverages -- Wahjudi et al. 24 (1): 562.1 -- The FASEB Journal

                        Honestly, couldn't you just google it or something? I already gave you the basic outline. Metabolically HFCS seems to function the same, but people are digesting many more calories than they think. And how in the world is that a troll? I presented an argument, supported it with facts, and showed how HFCS is not equal to sucrose. Do you people just throw that word around for no reason?

                        <plonk>

                        There's apparently something about extreme diets that compels their practitioners to troll. The more prescriptive and restrictive the diet is, the more evangelistic people seem to get about it. Peatarianism is just the latest example of that.
                        There is nothing "extreme" about this diet, it's not even a diet. I eat whatever the hell I want. Also, there is something about every single paleo dieter that can't seem to accept differing opinions and are so closed-minded that they will call anyone that brings arguments from another side of the spectrum a "troll".
                        Make America Great Again

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                        • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                          What you're essentially doing is paraphrasing me pointlessly.
                          No, I'm showing that you moved the goalposts. You made an assertion, I proved it incorrect, you started tap-dancing. Do you really think you're fooling anyone?

                          This is an abstract of an experiment in progress, not a peer-reviewed paper. A search of Pubmed reveals no further paper on the subject, even though the abstract is over two and a half years old...

                          ...which should tell you something about whether that particular hypothesis turned out to be correct.

                          Yes, I'm pretty sure Coca-Cola made with HFCS doesn't magically have 5x the amount of calories it says on the label due to "undigested cornstarch". There's 39 grams of either cane sugar or HFCS in a 12 ounce can of Coke. If there were really 5x the amount of carbohydrate, that would be 195 grams of carbohydrate in a single can.

                          Note that 12 ounces = 1 1/2 cups, and cornstarch weighs 125 grams per cup. I'm pretty sure there isn't OVER A CUP AND A HALF OF CORNSTARCH IN A CUP AND A HALF OF COKE.

                          Sheesh.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by J. Stanton View Post
                            No, I'm showing that you moved the goalposts. You made an assertion, I proved it incorrect, you started tap-dancing. Do you really think you're fooling anyone?

                            This is an abstract of an experiment in progress, not a peer-reviewed paper. A search of Pubmed reveals no further paper on the subject, even though the abstract is over two and a half years old...

                            ...which should tell you something about whether that particular hypothesis turned out to be correct.

                            Yes, I'm pretty sure Coca-Cola made with HFCS doesn't magically have 5x the amount of calories it says on the label due to "undigested cornstarch". There's 39 grams of either cane sugar or HFCS in a 12 ounce can of Coke. If there were really 5x the amount of carbohydrate, that would be 195 grams of carbohydrate in a single can.

                            Note that 12 ounces = 1 1/2 cups, and cornstarch weighs 125 grams per cup. I'm pretty sure there isn't OVER A CUP AND A HALF OF CORNSTARCH IN A CUP AND A HALF OF COKE.

                            Sheesh.
                            Honestly, Dermapix, just go back to the Peat party. You are making a serious fool of yourself.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                              I think people do vary, but "carb sensitivity" is not as common as people think. I don't think carbs are bad for anyone, just like fat isn't bad for anyone. I think the carb paranoia on this website is on par with the old fat paranoia.... For the vast, VAST majority, good carbs simply are not an issue
                              Then I simply am not the "vast majority." Good or bad, I simply cannot seem to stop myself from consuming large amounts of carbs and going overboard.

                              It doesn't matter what the source is. Call me whatever you want, but that is just my own n=1.
                              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by J. Stanton View Post
                                No, I'm showing that you moved the goalposts. You made an assertion, I proved it incorrect, you started tap-dancing. Do you really think you're fooling anyone?
                                I just quoted an exact post of mine that stated exactly what you were talking about. What are you talking about "moving goalposts"? People are unhealthy, no shit, but you can't point out a single variable of food consumption that is actually killing people. I just said in that exact post modern medical science is keeping people alive. How to reading comprehension?



                                This is an abstract of an experiment in progress, not a peer-reviewed paper. A search of Pubmed reveals no further paper on the subject, even though the abstract is over two and a half years old...

                                ...which should tell you something about whether that particular hypothesis turned out to be correct.

                                Yes, I'm pretty sure Coca-Cola made with HFCS doesn't magically have 5x the amount of calories it says on the label due to "undigested cornstarch". There's 39 grams of either cane sugar or HFCS in a 12 ounce can of Coke. If there were really 5x the amount of carbohydrate, that would be 195 grams of carbohydrate in a single can.

                                Note that 12 ounces = 1 1/2 cups, and cornstarch weighs 125 grams per cup. I'm pretty sure there isn't OVER A CUP AND A HALF OF CORNSTARCH IN A CUP AND A HALF OF COKE.

                                Sheesh.
                                Honestly, I have no idea what you're rambling on about. I'm not sure if you're just not understanding the study, or what. I'll try to make it easier to understand.

                                The measurements made after hydrolysis revealed about 400-500% more calories(higher carbohydrates) than what was listed on the soda labels, which points to the presence of undigested cornstarch molecules, which corn syrup and HFCS are derived.

                                It's not that hard to grasp. It also coincides with rising obesity rates.

                                Honestly, Dermapix, just go back to the Peat party. You are making a serious fool of yourself.
                                And you look like nothing but a cheerleader standing on the side with absolutely nothing knowledgeable to contribute aside from anecdotal experiences. "CARBS ARE EVIL (insert internet buzzwords like troll)" Could you be any more unoriginal? No idea why I bother replying to you.
                                Make America Great Again

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