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The Potato Diet....criticisms and metabolic theory

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  • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I think you misconstrue the aim of the thread though. It's not to criticize a particular persons results. Its to allow for theorizing about the mechanisms involved without getting personal anecdotes in a tizzy flailing their arms screaming "but it worked! look at all the weight I lost!". Sure Pklopp added in some protein (which will surely save him some lean mass), so no his results won't directly correlate. They don't have to though. Its his experiment.
    No worries mate, I understand, arm flapping over,

    Still interested to hear peoples throughts on if this is more to do with the late Dr Hays food combining theory's as well, havent read much on that but reportedly good results from people that follow it..

    Also I think there is an increase in metobolic rate, either from processing the resitant starch in Poataoes and rice or other process, anyway I jump back on the STFU coach as I havent got a medical background and its all guesswork on my behalf.

    Cheers
    "Times fun when you are having Flies" Kermit the frog

    Comment


    • i've read through almost all of the tater threads, but not all of this one yet. I am very open-minded and love to learn about how diet affects people and believe different things work for different people so I don't understand why people come in and argue right off the bat without reading the external links, people's experience's and success, etc. and the fact that it is so short-term it can't do much damage. Most of us ate poorly for years and years and years before we found PB. Anyways...

      What I think I like about it is this:

      I have been VLC for about 4 months and did great with it! Lost about 15 lbs and didn't have cravings, etc. Then I hit my usual 3-4 month 'food funk' where I get sick of cooking, tired of the same foods, don't know what sounds good, craving different kinds of foods, etc. It's a pattern for me and I call it a 'food funk'. So, I ate non-GMO popcorn popped in coconut oil and primal chocolate chunk cookies made with almond meal for 10 days along with my other easy primal meals, but sometimes in place of meals. I think a week or two of taters when I get to my 'food funk' would be good for me. Certainly would have been better than popcorn. I'd probably finish it and be really happy to go right back to craving primal foods again instead of feeling like I am still feeling now ...in a 'food funk'. I think it's good to mix it up every once in awhile. Our bodies need a change every so often.

      Comment


      • I also stopped the potato-only eating as of today. I have lost about 7lbs and my stomach is visibly flatter, fitting much better in my clothes. I didn't lose any strength that I could tell - I actually have been performing better in my wright lifting class and have been able to hold the more difficult yoga and Pilates poses for longer. That tells me that fueling with potatoes for my workouts might be a good idea - I just need to eat them with little to no fat. And I need to eat more carbs in general, I have been feeling very good energy-wise and my sleep patterns have regulated nicely.

        I started the morning off by doing a yoga class, then eating a couple of scrambled duck eggs. I am going to gently bring back other foods and will probably stick to a lower fat menu for a couple of days. This experiment was great for moving the scale and also for showing me that I need to feed my body differently to gain / maintain strength. And, I think I was simply eating too much before. Potatoes only really helped me focus on more mindful eating. I'll see where I'm at in a couple of weeks and may try it again in a few months if I am having any issues getting the last 7lbs off.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Zanna View Post
          I also stopped the potato-only eating as of today. I have lost about 7lbs and my stomach is visibly flatter, fitting much better in my clothes. I didn't lose any strength that I could tell - I actually have been performing better in my wright lifting class and have been able to hold the more difficult yoga and Pilates poses for longer. That tells me that fueling with potatoes for my workouts might be a good idea - I just need to eat them with little to no fat. And I need to eat more carbs in general, I have been feeling very good energy-wise and my sleep patterns have regulated nicely.

          I started the morning off by doing a yoga class, then eating a couple of scrambled duck eggs. I am going to gently bring back other foods and will probably stick to a lower fat menu for a couple of days. This experiment was great for moving the scale and also for showing me that I need to feed my body differently to gain / maintain strength. And, I think I was simply eating too much before. Potatoes only really helped me focus on more mindful eating. I'll see where I'm at in a couple of weeks and may try it again in a few months if I am having any issues getting the last 7lbs off.
          Good job! Glad it worked. I started eating one large plain baked potato for lunch several days a week. Adding butter, sour cream, and bacon bits completely changes the potato for me. I'm really liking them plain. Let us know how your weight does after a few weeks.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by otzi View Post
            Good job! Glad it worked. I started eating one large plain baked potato for lunch several days a week. Adding butter, sour cream, and bacon bits completely changes the potato for me. I'm really liking them plain. Let us know how your weight does after a few weeks.
            Isn't that funny? I fixed eggs and homefries with a 7oz sirloin. I ate most of my homefries while waiting on the steak to rest. So by the time I got around to the steak, I was too full and ate less than half of it.
            65lbs gone and counting!!

            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

            Comment


            • I love hacking my body, so I started the potato diet yesterday. Not 100% strict though as I've added in a cup or two of fibrous vegetables. Going to continue my normal weightlifting/exercise routine, so we shall see how this goes....

              Comment


              • Hey MDA peeps.

                Having considered this a lot and begun my own experiment and such, I wrote a couple of posts about the "potato diet" and this third one just got picked up by boingboing.

                The fabulous french fry and hash brown diet - Boing Boing

                Comments are what you might expect. So, if so inclined and this has worked for you, do feel free to pop on over and add your [reduced] weight to the thread.

                Comment


                • Yikes people on BoingBoing sure are idiots. Glad I don't go there.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kilian View Post
                    Yikes people on BoingBoing sure are idiots. Glad I don't go there.
                    I know, I started to get a log-in, but then read the comments and thought, naaaah

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Kilian View Post
                      Yikes people on BoingBoing sure are idiots. Glad I don't go there.
                      If I didn't read BoingBoing once in a while I wouldn't have even stumbled onto Primal/paleo eating. It was Nikoley's previous BoingBoing post (Feb '10) about showering without soap that got me on this kick. I've lost a lot of weight but still haven't leaned out. Perhaps after Thanksgiving I might give this potato hack a try for a couple of weeks to see if I can break my two year plateau.

                      Comment


                      • Sorry for the double post but this might be more relevant in this thread.

                        Hello all. I joined this forum to talk about the Potato diet. Specifically the use of adding a significant amount of coconut oil to AID in the amount of fat loss. I know the original calls for no fat because of the mechanisms to produce insulin need a fat source and body fat is the source on this diet BUT as has been discussed, MCT is metabolized differently in the body and is treated more like a carbohydrate. Coconut oil also has been showed to raise metabolism so if on a caloric deficit where all MCT is being burned along with the starch, would that not equal a higher rate of fat loss without messing with the mechanisms at play?

                        I am still not exactly clear on if this would help or hinder and all potato diet but i find it a very interesting idea, not only because it would add a much needed variety to this diet but also that it could potentially be a better version! Here are a few things pulled from different sources.

                        " Medium chain triglycerides are digested and utilized differently than other fatty acids. Instead of being packaged into lipoproteins that circulate in the bloodstream, they are absorbed directly into the bloodstream through the portal vein, and are then transported to the liver. Because they don’t need bile or pancreatic enzymes to break down, they are easier to digest. And because they are easier to digest, they provide your body with quick energy, like carbohydrates.

                        Since MCTs are utilized quickly as energy, they are not stored as fat—unless of course you over consume calories. Numerous studies have shown that ingesting MCTs contributes to weight loss and a reduction in fat."

                        "The ability of some of the medium chain saturated fatty acids to inhibit the liver's formation of fat very likely synergizes with the pro-thyroid effect, in allowing energy to be used, rather than stored. When fat isn't formed from carbohydrate, the sugar is available for use, or for storage as glycogen. Therefore, shifting from unsaturated fats in foods to coconut oil involves several anti-stress processes, reducing our need for the adrenal hormones. Decreased blood sugar is a basic signal for the release of adrenal hormones. Unsaturated oil tends to lower the blood sugar in at least three basic ways. It damages mitochondria, causing respiration to be uncoupled from energy production, meaning that fuel is burned without useful effect. It suppresses the activity of the respiratory enzyme (directly, 'and through its anti-thyroid actions), decreasing the respiratory production of energy. And it tends to direct carbohydrate into fat production, making both stress and obesity more probable. For those of us who use coconut oil consistently, one of the most noticeable changes is the ability to go for several hours without eating, and to feel hungry without having symptoms of hypoglycemia."

                        Coconut Oil

                        "Medium chain fatty acids (MCFA) are readily oxidized in the liver. Animal and human studies have shown that the fast rate of oxidation of MCFA leads to greater energy expenditure (EE). Most animal studies have also demonstrated that the greater EE with MCFA relative to long-chain fatty acids (LCFA) results in less body weight gain and decreased size of fat depots after several months of consumption. Furthermore, both animal and human trials suggest a greater satiating effect of medium-chain triglycerides (MCT) compared with long-chain triglycerides (LCT). "

                        Physiological Effects of Medium-Chain Triglycerides: Potential Agents in the Prevention of Obesity

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Zach View Post
                          Sorry for the double post but this might be more relevant in this thread.

                          Hello all. I joined this forum to talk about the Potato diet. Specifically the use of adding a significant amount of coconut oil to AID in the amount of fat loss. I know the original calls for no fat because of the mechanisms to produce insulin need a fat source and body fat is the source on this diet BUT as has been discussed, MCT is metabolized differently in the body and is treated more like a carbohydrate. Coconut oil also has been showed to raise metabolism so if on a caloric deficit where all MCT is being burned along with the starch, would that not equal a higher rate of fat loss without messing with the mechanisms at play?

                          I am still not exactly clear on if this would help or hinder and all potato diet but i find it a very interesting idea, not only because it would add a much needed variety to this diet but also that it could potentially be a better version! Here are a few things pulled from different sources.

                          " Medium chain triglycerides are digested and utilized differently than other fatty acids. Instead of being packaged into lipoproteins that circulate in the bloodstream, they are absorbed directly into the bloodstream through the portal vein, and are then transported to the liver. Because they don’t need bile or pancreatic enzymes to break down, they are easier to digest. And because they are easier to digest, they provide your body with quick energy, like carbohydrates.

                          Since MCTs are utilized quickly as energy, they are not stored as fat—unless of course you over consume calories. Numerous studies have shown that ingesting MCTs contributes to weight loss and a reduction in fat."

                          "The ability of some of the medium chain saturated fatty acids to inhibit the liver's formation of fat very likely synergizes with the pro-thyroid effect, in allowing energy to be used, rather than stored. When fat isn't formed from carbohydrate, the sugar is available for use, or for storage as glycogen. Therefore, shifting from unsaturated fats in foods to coconut oil involves several anti-stress processes, reducing our need for the adrenal hormones. Decreased blood sugar is a basic signal for the release of adrenal hormones. Unsaturated oil tends to lower the blood sugar in at least three basic ways. It damages mitochondria, causing respiration to be uncoupled from energy production, meaning that fuel is burned without useful effect. It suppresses the activity of the respiratory enzyme (directly, 'and through its anti-thyroid actions), decreasing the respiratory production of energy. And it tends to direct carbohydrate into fat production, making both stress and obesity more probable. For those of us who use coconut oil consistently, one of the most noticeable changes is the ability to go for several hours without eating, and to feel hungry without having symptoms of hypoglycemia."

                          Coconut Oil

                          "Medium chain fatty acids (MCFA) are readily oxidized in the liver. Animal and human studies have shown that the fast rate of oxidation of MCFA leads to greater energy expenditure (EE). Most animal studies have also demonstrated that the greater EE with MCFA relative to long-chain fatty acids (LCFA) results in less body weight gain and decreased size of fat depots after several months of consumption. Furthermore, both animal and human trials suggest a greater satiating effect of medium-chain triglycerides (MCT) compared with long-chain triglycerides (LCT). "

                          Physiological Effects of Medium-Chain Triglycerides: Potential Agents in the Prevention of Obesity

                          Interesting. If we take Peter at hyperlipids theory that this is a back end hack to reducing insulin (which of course reduces appetite and allows for fatty acids to be released from endogenous tissue) that leads to use of body fat to supply the beta cells that produce the insulin to start with and release just enough insulin to prevent hyerglycemia, then how would MCT oil react in that environment? The question would be if the body would use the MCT oil fats rather than endogenous fat for the beta cells. If so, you may very well be reducing the effectiveness of this hack. I think it much safer to add protein to the hack as Pklopp did, but I honestly don't know. Any ideas?

                          Comment


                          • I always liked the idea of CO. I find now when I eat tators, I like to cut my baked tators up (that I keep a supply of in the frig) and fry them up in a little CO. A combo of tators, 2 eggs and a little steak are the perfect macros I am trying to hit. I start with a larger steak but I eat the tators first, I guess cuz they are already cut up and easy - and tasty - along with the eggs so I am too full to finish the steak. And I love steak! I need to get back to salmon and eggs for breakfast though. That is alot less volume than a steak so that along with tators, might be my perfect breakfast

                            All this talk made me hungry though, so I just fixed only tators with some CO. I dont know how to measure any results for you though. I will say, my BP went sky high!!!!! but that was only because I checked my bank account after DS has had my debit card all week.
                            Last edited by gopintos; 11-16-2012, 09:27 AM.
                            65lbs gone and counting!!

                            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                              He says 3.5 lbs worth of potatoes give 1000 calories and 28g of protein. Your really think overloading on starch is going to be THAT much protein sparing? I sincerely doubt it. I'd have to look up the conversion rate of protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis, but my understanding is that in the absence of carbohydrate it is fairly consistent and quite slow to boot. In the end I don't you can claim to displace over 100g of animal protein with a bunch of starch. This doesn't give the exact rates I was looking for, but its a good start The Ketogenic Diet for Health

                              Not to mention it seems you would compare this to a no carb diet, while most primal eaters (just from observation) seem to be in the 70-150g range anyhow. I see almost no room for starch to be protein sparing if your in the upper end of that and following a PB fitness plan.
                              Your ignorance regarding having even the vaguest understanding of metabolism works is clearly demonstrated by your ridiculous statement of 'I see almost no room for starch to be protein sparing ...'
                              F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
                                Your ignorance regarding having even the vaguest understanding of metabolism works is clearly demonstrated by your ridiculous statement of 'I see almost no room for starch to be protein sparing ...'
                                How about if, instead of just tossing around terms like ignorant and ridiculous against Neckhammer who is one of the best informed posters on this board, you actually try coming up with a cogent counter argument?

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