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  • Absorbing Protein

    I think supposedly no more than 50 grams is absorbed. I am not quite sure but I learned that extra protein generally is turned into sugar via gluconeogenesis. Excess sugar of course is either burned or stored as fat.

    When following Leangains or just eating a after workout meal I tend to get about 100 grams of protein. Typically i have made a meal of two servings of Whey Protein (40 grams) and then I might couple it with a meal because of convenience.

    With Leangains there is the window where I have to fit in my calories, while it is not too restrictive to fit in a day's calories in 8 hour window, it forces one to have larger meals therefore more protein.

    Typically along with my protein shake, i might have a omelet or a nice juicy half pound burger patty which is like (50 grams of protein).

    That is just an example. But I don't doubt that i might consume nearly 100 grams a protein in a meal. I restrict carbs so I rely more on protein and fats.

    I am pretty fit. I have lower body fat already from workout out and proper nutrition. However I am concerned if I could be sabotaging my efforts by having too much protein at a time.

    Is 50 grams the limit?

    Would waiting an hour after a after workout meal to have a protein shake help with protein absorption?

    I definitely believe now that I should stop using two servings of protein powder at a time. That is my take away, but could one argue that refilling after a workout might allow one to absorb more protein than usual?

    What do you think about Gluconeogenesis?

  • #2
    ALL protein is absorbed. Just not all at once. You absorb about 7g per hour. Your body will slow down transit time to absorb it all.

    You can make 170g of glucose through gluceoneogenesis a day. Hope those numbers are right, someone correct me if wrong.

    Leangains or even the Warrior Diet will not cause protein to go to waste. The thing is if you eat in a 4-8 hour window, throughout the fasted period your body will absorb it all so by the next eating window it can absorb more, 16 hours is more than enough time to absorb all protein by the next meal.
    Last edited by Loneketo; 11-10-2012, 08:41 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Loneketo View Post
      ALL protein is absorbed. Just not all at once. You absorb about 7g per hour.
      Go on

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      • #4
        Just from my own body comp changes, I'm inclined to agree. If half my protein turned to sugar, I'd be having some real trouble - which I'm not. If I overeat, it just turns into muscle, not fat, and I get no sugar buzz or crash. But that's just my own subjective experience, no science here.
        Crohn's, doing SCD

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        • #5
          I have type 1 diabetes and use an insulin pump. Last night over the course of 2 hours I ate about 70 grams of protein. Previous to my night time meal I hadn't eaten for 9 hours. I counted my carbs and gave insulin accordingly but I woke up 3x in the night to check my sugar and needed extra insulin. That tells me that the excess protein I ate was turned into glucose.

          I'm sure that everybody is a little different though and the fact that I have type 1 diabetes could also play a part in how I metabolize food.

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          • #7
            Originally posted by brookesam View Post
            I have type 1 diabetes and use an insulin pump. Last night over the course of 2 hours I ate about 70 grams of protein. Previous to my night time meal I hadn't eaten for 9 hours. I counted my carbs and gave insulin accordingly but I woke up 3x in the night to check my sugar and needed extra insulin. That tells me that the excess protein I ate was turned into glucose.
            Actually, that glucose did not come from gluconeogenesis, but rather, it came from the glucagon that your pancreas secreted about 3 hours after your meal. I get into the details on my blog here, but the lowdown is that in non-diabetics, all mixed meals with the exception of high carbohydrate meals, follow a pattern of insulin secretion followed by glucagon secretion.

            Now, as you know, protein is highly insulinogenic which means that it normally comes with an attendant, delayed, large pulse of glucagon. Since you are exogenously administering insulin, you need to account for this glucagon response yourself, hence your need to administer the extra insulin.

            -PK
            My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

            Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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            • #8
              Originally posted by pklopp View Post
              Actually, that glucose did not come from gluconeogenesis, but rather, it came from the glucagon that your pancreas secreted about 3 hours after your meal. I get into the details on my blog here, but the lowdown is that in non-diabetics, all mixed meals with the exception of high carbohydrate meals, follow a pattern of insulin secretion followed by glucagon secretion.

              Now, as you know, protein is highly insulinogenic which means that it normally comes with an attendant, delayed, large pulse of glucagon. Since you are exogenously administering insulin, you need to account for this glucagon response yourself, hence your need to administer the extra insulin.

              -PK
              So the glucagon reponse only happens with protein? And the reason I needed so much extra through the night is because I ate more protein than I usually do in that time frame?

              I have so many questions about how my body works as somebody with type 1 diabetes...

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              • #9
                Originally posted by pklopp View Post
                Actually, that glucose did not come from gluconeogenesis, but rather, it came from the glucagon that your pancreas secreted about 3 hours after your meal. I get into the details on my blog here, but the lowdown is that in non-diabetics, all mixed meals with the exception of high carbohydrate meals, follow a pattern of insulin secretion followed by glucagon secretion.

                Now, as you know, protein is highly insulinogenic which means that it normally comes with an attendant, delayed, large pulse of glucagon. Since you are exogenously administering insulin, you need to account for this glucagon response yourself, hence your need to administer the extra insulin.

                -PK
                Nice blog. I added it to my bookmarks. So from what I understand glucagon from the protein I eat is benefiting my burning of fat and building of muscle? It won't raise my insulin.

                Is some of the protein going to waste because I had a large intake in one time?

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                • #10
                  I was reading a review paper about protein the other day. If you're into the whole science thing: From 2006

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                  • #11
                    Originally posted by brookesam View Post
                    So the glucagon reponse only happens with protein? And the reason I needed so much extra through the night is because I ate more protein than I usually do in that time frame?

                    I have so many questions about how my body works as somebody with type 1 diabetes...
                    Short answer, yes, it's the protein.

                    Long answer:

                    Insulin is an acute nutrient availability signal. For all intents and purposes, insulin tells the rest of your body that "you've just been fed, govern yourself accordingly." Govern yourself accordingly basically comes down to assimilating the available nutrients.

                    Assimilation is not strictly related to the nutrients that you've ingested. Once a glucose molecule is in your bloodstream, for example, there is no way for your body to differentiate a molecule that originally started out as amylopectin-A in your morning bagel from one that was produced by dephosphorilation of glucose-1-phosphate from your liver glycogen store.

                    As a result, insulin signalling will induce tissues capable of glucose uptake to do so, even if the diet did not provide enough carbohydrate to maintain blood sugar levels at pre-prandial ( before feeding ) levels. But, luckily the body has regulatory mechanisms that prevent blood sugar from getting too low, and that is via the secretion of glucagon.

                    While insulin is the poster child for pancreatic hormones, there is another, lesser known hormone that is always secreted in conjunction with insulin: amylin. Amylin is interesting because it has both endocrine and paracrine functions.

                    Endocrine functions are those that affect remote tissues such as when amylin causes gastric emptying to slow, or induces satiety via its effects on the hypothalamus. Paracrine functions are when a secretion affects not remote tissues, but rather tissues in the immediate vicinity.

                    For our purposes here, it is the paracrine function of amylin that we are interested in because that function is to suppress the secretion of glucagon from pancreatic alpha cells.

                    Were in the home stretch now ... here comes the punchline. As a type I diabetic, you have a condition where your pancreatic beta cells are non-functional, and this prevents you from secreting both insulin and amylin. This means that your meals result in insufficient insulin release, and, adding insult to injury, an exaggerated post-prandial glucagon release.

                    Although we've only been discussing glucose up to now, insulin is also essential for the assimilation of protein. Before the advent of synthetic insulin, patients with T1DM would waste away while being being ravenous and eating prodigiously. The takeaway from this is that protein behaves very much like carbohydrates in terms of insulin -> amylin -> glucagon signalling pathways.

                    So, legal disclaimer here, I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. I would advise you to try to have the bulk of your protein early in the morning, because that way you can monitor your blood sugar throughout the day without needing to disturb your sleep. I would also restrict protein portion sizes and potentially increase frequency of protein meals. I would also steer clear of lean meats in preference of fatty cuts not just because they are far more tasty, but also because the fat affects gastric emptying and the rate of protein absorption from the digestive tract.

                    -PK
                    Last edited by pklopp; 11-11-2012, 07:45 AM.
                    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Well said! For a time I could not understand my high readings because of my fixation on carbohydrate restriction, which of course led to using more insulin.

                      I would advise you to try to have the bulk of your protein early in the morning, because that way you can monitor your blood sugar throughout the day without needing to disturb your sleep. I would also restrict protein portion sizes and potentially increase frequency of protein meals. I would also steer clear of lean meats in preference of fatty cuts not just because they are far more tasty, but also because the fat affects gastric emptying and the rate of protein absorption from the digestive tract.

                      Logical to a "t." Thank you.

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                      • #13
                        Just wanted to reach out to the diabetic poster here. I'm T1.5 (also on insulin pump, but only for pregnancy). I haven't had the protein spiking problem, but I usually don't have more than 50g in a sitting. It's usually in the form of a morning protein shake with at least 1/2c of heavy cream. Have you been having fat with your protein? Fat helps slow down the spiking process.
                        --Trish (Bork)
                        TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
                        http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
                        FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

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                        • #14
                          So does anyone know how much protein can one take per meal? Is there really a limit? Now I just wonder if I go over the threshold that the protein might not be utilized

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                          • #15
                            Originally posted by pklopp View Post

                            Were in the home stretch now ... here comes the punchline. As a type I diabetic, you have a condition where your pancreatic beta cells are non-functional, and this prevents you from secreting both insulin and amylin. This means that your meals result in insufficient insulin release, and, adding insult to injury, an exaggerated post-prandial glucagon release.

                            Although we've only been discussing glucose up to now, insulin is also essential for the assimilation of protein. Before the advent of synthetic insulin, patients with T1DM would waste away while being being ravenous and eating prodigiously. The takeaway from this is that protein behaves very much like carbohydrates in terms of insulin -> amylin -> glucagon signalling pathways.

                            So, legal disclaimer here, I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. I would advise you to try to have the bulk of your protein early in the morning, because that way you can monitor your blood sugar throughout the day without needing to disturb your sleep. I would also restrict protein portion sizes and potentially increase frequency of protein meals. I would also steer clear of lean meats in preference of fatty cuts not just because they are far more tasty, but also because the fat affects gastric emptying and the rate of protein absorption from the digestive tract.

                            -PK
                            Thank you so much PK for taking the time to really explain that to me!

                            I eat about 4 meals a day because I found with 2 or 3 meals I was sluggish and gained weight. So normally my protein is intake is around 25-40 grams per meal. All I had on hand that night was chicken, goat cheese and eggs so there was some fat in my meal. I also had some coconut butter.

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