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  • Originally posted by milanya View Post
    Just wondering if anyone else saw their weight shoot up on after the first day of the PPD? ... It's just annoying because I was hopeful to see a loss, and when I stepped on I went from my plateau weight (around 153-154) up to 157.
    It's not a common complaint. I remember one lady on one of these threads had a similar reaction, but then said her weight can fluctuate 5-6lbs depending on time of month or hormonal fluctuations. Seems like she stuck it out and wound up down after a week and was really happy, I'll look through and see if I can find that post.

    Normally, though, everyone is surprised that it doesn't cause insta-gain water weight, it seems that it would, but generally doesn't.

    Good luck!
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    • Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
      Aw, thank you. Yes I worked that out for myself, thanks to my biochemistry degree from Oxford University. There, I attended lectures on metabolism given by Yudkin's son. That's where I first learnt about the specific metabolic problems caused by fructose cf glucose.
      OK, smarty-pants, take a stab at decipering these two paragraphs from different blogs by Perter at Hyperlipid. I think these two statements are key to why the potato diet works...insulin sensitivity and insulin resistance at the same time. Would love to hear your thoughts as you seem to be able to break this stuff down to where everyone can understand it.

      "Why might anyone want to run their metabolism on FFAs? Superoxide. I want more mitochondria to supply spare ETC capacity, to minimise the sort of levels of free radicals which wipe out mitochondria when the pressure is on. Physiological superoxide signals for mitochondrial biogenesis, without all of that tedious exercise to do the same job on a mixed diet.”

      and

      “Once you get FFA levels low enough to inhibit insulin secretion you will start to move in to the sort of territory where insulin secretion might be blunted enough to allow hyperglycaemia. But the feedback effect of reduced insulin levels is also the re commencement of lipolysis. This will restore enough FFAs to maintain functional insulin secretion and so avoid potential hyperglycaemia, which the body tries to avoid. Of course you have to throw in the increased insulin sensitivity of muscles deprived of exogenously supplied FFAs too.”
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      • I just wanted to pop in and tell you guys I have lost 3 lbs in three days not feeling to bad first day was a bit tired, I have been eating 1300 cal, a day.

        I ate one meal that was off plan some chicken and salad, but I am still losing ,I might eat normal paleo for awhile and try again .I think my experience was positive, I just can not do this for long, need steak LOL

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        • Originally posted by maladee View Post
          I just wanted to pop in and tell you guys I have lost 3 lbs in three days not feeling to bad first day was a bit tired, I have been eating 1300 cal, a day.

          I ate one meal that was off plan some chicken and salad, but I am still losing ,I might eat normal paleo for awhile and try again .I think my experience was positive, I just can not do this for long, need steak LOL
          Your mind has to be in it to make it work, for sure. At least now you know it's not total hogwash and when you are ready for a longer run you'll be prepared. Thanks for the note!
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          • Originally posted by tatertot View Post
            OK, smarty-pants, take a stab at decipering these two paragraphs from different blogs by Perter at Hyperlipid. I think these two statements are key to why the potato diet works...insulin sensitivity and insulin resistance at the same time. Would love to hear your thoughts as you seem to be able to break this stuff down to where everyone can understand it.

            "Why might anyone want to run their metabolism on FFAs? Superoxide. I want more mitochondria to supply spare ETC capacity, to minimise the sort of levels of free radicals which wipe out mitochondria when the pressure is on. Physiological superoxide signals for mitochondrial biogenesis, without all of that tedious exercise to do the same job on a mixed diet.”

            and

            “Once you get FFA levels low enough to inhibit insulin secretion you will start to move in to the sort of territory where insulin secretion might be blunted enough to allow hyperglycaemia. But the feedback effect of reduced insulin levels is also the re commencement of lipolysis. This will restore enough FFAs to maintain functional insulin secretion and so avoid potential hyperglycaemia, which the body tries to avoid. Of course you have to throw in the increased insulin sensitivity of muscles deprived of exogenously supplied FFAs too.”
            OK Para 1:

            Burning carbohydrates cf burning of saturated fats produces a lot of free radicals. Free radicals are very reactive oxidising entities that cause damage to mitochondria. Mitochondria are organelles (mini organs) within our cells that oxidise the breakdown products of protein, fat and glucose to produce ATP via the ETC (electron transport chain). ATP is used almost exclusively as the universal energy currency in cells to fuel any biochemical reaction requiring energy input to push equilibrium more strongly in one direction over the other (including muscle movement).

            Mitochondria are akin to bacteria living synbiotically within us as they have their own DNA (with slight variations on the genetic code cf that of eukaryotic DNA, i.e. that of multi-celled organisms). Hence mitochondria are rather delicate little beasties. They are inherited via our mother's egg cell and our body has very limited control over their health. Many metabolic disorders are acquired through mitochondria.

            When fat is the predominant fuel this releases higher levels of superoxide, which promotes growth of more mitochondria. More mitochondria equates to increased capacity for energy transduction from ingested fats/proteins/carbs to the universal energy currency, ATP. Boundless energy.

            Para 2 is much simpler to understand IMO re: increasing insulin sensitivity and I believe that most readers here will get it.

            If that's a cop-out, I'm claiming that my rabbit ate my home-work.

            It's 19 years since I graduated, so this doesn't come easy to me now as I don't remember studying some of it in the first place!

            My personal take is that I like using exercise to maintain my muscles' insulin sensitivity. However, I appreciate attempting to understand any clever hack as that gives my brain a workout too.
            F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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            • thx tatertot, I thought it would be better to get some clean eating under my belt , I had some ppl yell at me on the other thread ,well this one too, that I was eating like S***, and I was going to crash and burn up in flames*sarcasm*

              When I got done being mad I just decided they may have a point and BTW I have read PB, anyway I think ,I need to do changes ,I will try to go on PPD soon, BTW another thing that is interesting ,I am still losing weight ,I think this did JUMP start my weight lose.

              I will be back soon. And thanks for being nice.

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              • Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
                OK Para 1:

                Burning carbohydrates cf burning of saturated fats produces a lot of free radicals. Free radicals are very reactive oxidising entities that cause damage to mitochondria. Mitochondria are organelles (mini organs) within our cells that oxidise the breakdown products of protein, fat and glucose to produce ATP via the ETC (electron transport chain). ATP is used almost exclusively as the universal energy currency in cells to fuel any biochemical reaction requiring energy input to push equilibrium more strongly in one direction over the other (including muscle movement).

                Mitochondria are akin to bacteria living synbiotically within us as they have their own DNA (with slight variations on the genetic code cf that of eukaryotic DNA, i.e. that of multi-celled organisms). Hence mitochondria are rather delicate little beasties. They are inherited via our mother's egg cell and our body has very limited control over their health. Many metabolic disorders are acquired through mitochondria.

                When fat is the predominant fuel this releases higher levels of superoxide, which promotes growth of more mitochondria. More mitochondria equates to increased capacity for energy transduction from ingested fats/proteins/carbs to the universal energy currency, ATP. Boundless energy.

                Para 2 is much simpler to understand IMO re: increasing insulin sensitivity and I believe that most readers here will get it.

                If that's a cop-out, I'm claiming that my rabbit ate my home-work.

                It's 19 years since I graduated, so this doesn't come easy to me now as I don't remember studying some of it in the first place!

                My personal take is that I like using exercise to maintain my muscles' insulin sensitivity. However, I appreciate attempting to understand any clever hack as that gives my brain a workout too.
                Dang, girl, you are good! I still haven't quite reconciled in my mind insulin resistance vs sensitivity, though. Everyone says we need to be insulin sensitive, otherwise we become obese diabetics, but when eating a ketogenic diet, if we aren't insulin resistant, we will die of hypoglycemia (low blood sugar). We need to maintain our ability to be insulin resistant when we aren't loading our blood with glucose.

                It seems then, that if we eat low carb all the time, we become (out of necessity) insulin resistant. Then when we eat some carbs, we don't have the sensitivity to deal with the glucose.

                I'm thinking carb refeeds fill the need for maintaining insulin sensitivity and a hack like the potato diet even makes more sense when used as a sort of once or twice a year insulin sensitivity reset.
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                • Originally posted by maladee View Post
                  thx tatertot, I thought it would be better to get some clean eating under my belt , I had some ppl yell at me on the other thread ,well this one too, that I was eating like S***, and I was going to crash and burn up in flames*sarcasm*

                  When I got done being mad I just decided they may have a point and BTW I have read PB, anyway I think ,I need to do changes ,I will try to go on PPD soon, BTW another thing that is interesting ,I am still losing weight ,I think this did JUMP start my weight lose.

                  I will be back soon. And thanks for being nice.
                  Ya gotta do what's right for you, sometimes you can only go with a gut feeling. Good luck!
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                  • Originally posted by tatertot View Post
                    Dang, girl, you are good! I still haven't quite reconciled in my mind insulin resistance vs sensitivity, though. Everyone says we need to be insulin sensitive, otherwise we become obese diabetics, but when eating a ketogenic diet, if we aren't insulin resistant, we will die of hypoglycemia (low blood sugar). We need to maintain our ability to be insulin resistant when we aren't loading our blood with glucose.

                    It seems then, that if we eat low carb all the time, we become (out of necessity) insulin resistant. Then when we eat some carbs, we don't have the sensitivity to deal with the glucose.

                    I'm thinking carb refeeds fill the need for maintaining insulin sensitivity and a hack like the potato diet even makes more sense when used as a sort of once or twice a year insulin sensitivity reset.
                    That is correct. Anyone with good insulin sensitivity in the first place can lose some of that by eating a low carb diet chronically.

                    I managed to become quite obese while retaining excellent insulin sensitivity. My blood glucose levels were in the ideal range about 2 hours after eating 100 g of chocolate (as a test, not a matter of course) even at my most obese. I gained weight through having to avoid exercise as it lowered my blood pressure and caused other problems that made me weak.

                    Exercise is usually the one of the best means of maintaining insulin sensitivity as the muscles are a key endocrine organ, boosting the immune system as well as regulating blood sugar levels. Low-level cardio is perfect.

                    The less active someone is, the weaker the insulin sensitivity of their muscles, hence the more dietary glucose is taken up by the liver, which makes it more difficult to go into ketosis.

                    That's why PB recommends more glucose (starch) in line with activity for active people who want to stay that way.

                    The potato diet is worth considering once a month, IMO.
                    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tatertot View Post
                      It's not a common complaint. I remember one lady on one of these threads had a similar reaction, but then said her weight can fluctuate 5-6lbs depending on time of month or hormonal fluctuations. Seems like she stuck it out and wound up down after a week and was really happy, I'll look through and see if I can find that post.

                      Normally, though, everyone is surprised that it doesn't cause insta-gain water weight, it seems that it would, but generally doesn't.

                      Good luck!
                      Thanks for the response. I thought I would provide an update after day 2. This has been very interesting for me. So, this morning I weighed in a pound lower than yesterday, 156, and along with that, my body fat percentage lowered by a percentage point!!! So, although I am still at a higher weight than my plateau weight, I have finally seen the body fat % on my scale move, something that has also not happened in forever. In the past, when my weight would fluctuate upwards due to water, etc. i wouldn't see a change in the body fat %, so I don't believe it is related to the water. So, although my water percentage is also up a bit, I think this seems to be working for me. Enough that I'm going to give it the full 3 days. I was feeling after dinner last night that I didn't want another potato for a while but this has given me the motivation to see the original experiment through. After tomorrow, I'll be away for thanksgiving and won't really be able to monitor, but plan to start eating my regular diet tomorrow (and to be as reasonable as possible during thanksgiving), and to measure when I come home. Not the best scientifically to have thanksgiving right after this experiment but oh well. Unfortunately, the potatoes do seem to perhaps be exacerbating my skin condition. Until recently, I was on the paleo auto-immune protocol which forbids potatoes, cause nightshades. I've been doing so much better I thought this would be ok, as I needed to "test" potatoes anyway, I thought hey, why not test two things at once. So for me, this would probably not be ok for more than a few days, and probably not more frequently than once a month, but if it continues to work, it's worth a minor flare-up. Will update again tomorrow! Also, may be TMI, but it occurred to me that the first day I was still pretty hungry, and ate probably between 3 and 4 pounds of potatoes. Um, that's a lot of weight that I know I didn't poop out yet, so that also may have something to do with the jump. I was able to eat much less yesterday (day 2). I would estimate yesterday that I probably only ate about 2 lbs. Today, who knows. I definitely don't feel hungry yet.

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                      • The last couple of days, I have been doing it sort of this style Food for a Fast | Perfect Health Diet and when I had my breakfast yesterday around 10, of my thick bone broth with a smushed up tator, OMG for some reason it tasted like the best thing ever. It was funny just how good it tasted to me.
                        65lbs gone and counting!!

                        Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                        • Hey, Guys! After reading PKlopp's 'Epic Fail' post, I had to jump in and tell you what I have been up to.

                          As you may know, I'm a small-time potato farmer. Farmer's market and word-of-mouth kind of operation in my spare time. I haven't eaten potatoes in almost 3 years as they were not on the low-carb plan.

                          I lost a lot of weight in 3 years on primal, but stabilized around 210lbs (I'm 6'). I tried hard to lose another 10, but it always came right back on.

                          I did the potato diet from Oct 1-14 and lost 10lbs. Since then, I have stabilized at 198 and had been +/- 3lbs of 198 for 4 full weeks. On Nov 17th, I started another potato diet, more of an experiment, and partly because I didn't want to have to eat my wife's pumpkin pie on Thanksgiving day.

                          My experiment: 8 people (me included). Each person was given 20lbs of potatoes (variety - Seed Potatoes - German Butterball PotatoesOrganic). Each person had approximately 40 potatoes and was instructed to eat nothing else. Water, coffee, tea to drink; salt, pepper, apple-cider vinegar for spices. Here are the results:

                          Person 1 (me) - Starting weight 198, end weight 193, -5lbs, 6 days
                          Person 2 - M - Starting weight 181, end weight 175, -6lbs, 6 days
                          Person 3 - M - Starting weight 264, end weight 260, -4lbs, 5 days
                          Person 4 - M - Starting weight 210, end weight 202, -8lbs, 7 days
                          Person 5 - F - Starting weight 151, end weight 145, -6lbs, 8 days
                          Person 6 - F - Starting weight 140, end weight 134, -6lbs, 8 days
                          Person 7 - F - Starting weight 132, end weight 128, -4lbs, 7 days
                          Person 8 - F - Starting weight 124, end weight 119, -5lbs, 9 days

                          Pounds per day:
                          Person 1 - .83
                          Person 2 - .66
                          Person 3 - .80
                          Person 4 - 1.1
                          Person 5 - .75
                          Person 6 - .75
                          Person 7 - .57
                          Person 8 - .55

                          Everybody was so happy they didn't gain over Thanksgiving! Some are continuing, all have said they will do it again. Notice the biggest guy of the bunch ate his potatoes faster and lost less than everybody. The smallest of the group ate her potatoes slowly and lost fairly slowly, but as a percentage it was awesome.

                          edit to add: everybody, except me, is a SAD eater. No dieters in the bunch.
                          Last edited by tatertot; 11-26-2012, 04:02 PM.
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                          • TT--thanks for this! I have been following all your posts with great interest--and quoted you over at another LC forum. I love seeing more data!!! Keep these threads updated please! Some of us have a great need for any hack that will get us to goal weight. Then primal eating all the way, with the occasional hack as needed. This thread is great and I am really appreciative of you potato people who have continued to be helpful to others--

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                            • Tater,
                              Forgive me if I missed it and I have only read the first few pages but I have a question. What were the details of the PPD you were eating. Were you aiming for a certain amount of potatoes or calories a day? I'm very curious as I am also looking to lose the last few pounds and might try implementing this.

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                              • Originally posted by bac5179 View Post
                                Tater,
                                Forgive me if I missed it and I have only read the first few pages but I have a question. What were the details of the PPD you were eating. Were you aiming for a certain amount of potatoes or calories a day? I'm very curious as I am also looking to lose the last few pounds and might try implementing this.
                                I like to call it 'Primal' because potatoes are an OK thing to eat according to Primal Blueprint. Basically, just eat potatoes, prepared as plainly as possible, with no added oils or other foods. Use salt/pepper/vinegar for spices. I like to eat mine boiled or baked. Some like making hashbrowns in a non-stick frying pan or waffle maker. Don't shoot for any calorie level, just eat til full and most find after a day or 3 that you are eating at about 1/2 your normal amount without being ravenously hungry.

                                It's boring, it takes some willpower, but it works. If you add other things, like eggs or coconut oil, you are on your own--it may work, but that's not the PDD I know and love.
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