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  • #76
    Originally posted by anna5 View Post
    Well, there are things you didn't see (yes, knowledge does matter) - greater security - security of job, security of medical care, security of affordable education, security of retirement, security of rest etc. For those who don't know, greater security means lesser stress. And yes, stress, chronic constant stress affects every aspect of life, health and weight including.
    Seems to be obvious. Why is this not seen or rather not known?
    I am always irritated when I hear Americans who wined and dined in Europe (and only that) complain about how horrible and horribly expensive life is in Europe ("coffee is more expensive there" whined some retard).
    Agreed, what I saw was nothing more than a snapshot but it was still a major contrast with what I see in the USA and other countries I have been in.
    Randal
    AKA: Texas Grok

    Originally posted by texas.grok
    Facebook is to intelligence what a black hole is to light
    http://hardcoremind.com/

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    • #77
      At 35, I was happily married, more or less. My bp was <120/80. My heart rate was <68. I had great dental care. My bloodwork always came back great. I didn't smoke. I only drank on occasion. I rode my bike for about an hour every day. I swam a lot because I lived three blocks from the Gulf of Mexico. I even taught a senior aerobic class and sometimes substituted other (non senior) aerobic classes. We went out to eat once a week and it was at a real restaurant, not some golden arches clone. I worked part time and had virtually no chronic stress in my life.
      You sound like me and so many of my friends. And most people will say "mmmm, thyroid" and there often isn't. People don't get that we feel great and have amazing energy. I do think people like you and I probably ruined our metabolism with chronic dieting and probably for people like us, the issue was more about food sensitivity (IE, going to bet that sugar and grains made us fat). When I fully eliminate processed sugar, fat drains off of me. I honestly think my body just kept inflaming and adding fat to protect itself from a bad food and no amount of dieting without eliminating was going to change that. The good news for me is that I can eat quite a bit of whole foods, calorically if I keep the wheat and sugar out.

      In terms of my bodies response to a small amount of wheat and sugar- for my birthday, I gained 7lbs of water that took over a week to get rid of. Now start eating this sugar and wheat daily and your body just keeps ballooning.

      Problem is no doctors will ever say "geez, maybe it is something you aren't processing", just an assumption that you are an out of control fat ass. I think gluten and sugar sensitivity are big problems especially for women and would take a bet that if more of the "fat/fit" people fully eliminated those that would take a chunk out of that population.

      Living without those two chemicals is SO EASY that it is clear for me that my issue was never calories in/calories out or even a diet too high in carbs. It's a straight up chemical reaction that packs on weight and makes me unhealthy.

      http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
      Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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      • #78
        Obesity is caused by malnutrition (per Gary Taubes, Why We Get Fat.)

        Lack of nutrients
        Excess carbs that cause insulin spikes
        Eating bad foods including overly processed, toxic (such as "vegetable" oils), too many raw goitrogens, etc.
        Eating too often, thus disturbing leptin function

        If you eat crap food you don't have the energy to exercise. It all starts with the food. People here are very ignorant about how their bodies and diets work... I know I was. They don't realize how bad certain foods are because they're ubiquitous, so they must be okay, right? People no longer know what quality food should taste like. They don't know how to cook real food.

        One thing that applies in the USA at least are the subsidies that distort food prices terribly. All these political types that preach about free markets won't touch the sacred cows of sugar subsidies, corn, etc. Heaven help a food product that isn't grown here, like coconut oil, it will be demonized.
        Age 55, post-menopausal, primal since August '12 with some dairy, lots of seafood, following PHD and the 5 Leptin Rules. Taking ThyroGold, eating RS and zero wheat with great results. My Primal Journal

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        • #79
          Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
          At 35, I was happily married, more or less. My bp was <120/80. My heart rate was <68. I had great dental care. My bloodwork always came back great. I didn't smoke. I only drank on occasion. I rode my bike for about an hour every day. I swam a lot because I lived three blocks from the Gulf of Mexico. I even taught a senior aerobic class and sometimes substituted other (non senior) aerobic classes. We went out to eat once a week and it was at a real restaurant, not some golden arches clone. I worked part time and had virtually no chronic stress in my life.

          I weighed 185 pounds at five foot five. Considering my lifestyle, I should have been a 120 pound hottie. But I wasn't. I don't know exactly what was wrong, but something was. CW? SAD? I was doing everything right and I was still fat. It's not about lack of character. It's not about being lazy.
          Originally posted by Energy! View Post
          Obesity is caused by malnutrition (per Gary Taubes, Why We Get Fat.)

          Lack of nutrients
          Excess carbs that cause insulin spikes
          Eating bad foods including overly processed, toxic (such as "vegetable" oils), too many raw goitrogens, etc.
          Eating too often, thus disturbing leptin function
          Bingo. That lady on the left of my avatar? She had just come back from one of her regular 3000 foot elevation gain/loss hikes. She rode her bike to work. Ran 3-5 miles at lunch. She didn't eat out very often and when she did, it wasn't fast-food. She rarely ate red meat. She avoided fatty foods. She was fairly addicted to things with flour and sugar, though, thinking they were okay to eat. After all, about 15 years ago she lost a lot of weight hiking every day and eating pastries for breakfast. Why did it stop working?

          And please, the fat acceptance movement? Have you ever seen any evidence of it in real life or is it just some sensationalistic news item you saw on TV? I have never seen any evidence their "movement" has had any effect on anything or anyone in any way, shape or form. Stop the average person on the street and I bet they've never heard of such a thing. I know they do exist, but they've done nothing to effect any change whatsoever. Discrimination against fat people continues. They're still the one safe target to vent a lot of bigotry. And I have yet to meat a single overweight woman who thinks it's okay to be fat.
          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
            Bingo. That lady on the left of my avatar? She had just come back from one of her regular 3000 foot elevation gain/loss hikes. She rode her bike to work. Ran 3-5 miles at lunch. She didn't eat out very often and when she did, it wasn't fast-food. She rarely ate red meat. She avoided fatty foods. She was fairly addicted to things with flour and sugar, though, thinking they were okay to eat. After all, about 15 years ago she lost a lot of weight hiking every day and eating pastries for breakfast. Why did it stop working?

            And please, the fat acceptance movement? Have you ever seen any evidence of it in real life or is it just some sensationalistic news item you saw on TV? I have never seen any evidence their "movement" has had any effect on anything or anyone in any way, shape or form. Stop the average person on the street and I bet they've never heard of such a thing. I know they do exist, but they've done nothing to effect any change whatsoever. Discrimination against fat people continues. They're still the one safe target to vent a lot of bigotry. And I have yet to meat a single overweight woman who thinks it's okay to be fat.
            Actually, at my school, there have been a rash of theater productions which could be classified under the "fat acceptance" movement. I've been to conferences where people gave papers which could also fall into this area.

            I even had a case study in a textbook I use in my business ethics class where an obese woman sued a gym franchise because they wouldn't hire her as an aerobics instructor, because she didn't "look" fit (apparently, she was able to pass relevant fitness tests for the position).

            I don't think it's registered a nation-wide collective consciousness - yet. But if the majority of Americans are overweight/obese, it wouldn't surprise me to see something like this gaining steam over the years - particularly if life-spans stay more-or-less where they are at and the medical industry continues to produce treatments which mitigate the most severe effects (diabetes medications, etc).

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by anna5 View Post
              Well, there are things you didn't see (yes, knowledge does matter) - greater security - security of job, security of medical care, security of affordable education, security of retirement, security of rest etc. For those who don't know, greater security means lesser stress. And yes, stress, chronic constant stress affects every aspect of life, health and weight including.
              Seems to be obvious. Why is this not seen or rather not known?
              I am always irritated when I hear Americans who wined and dined in Europe (and only that) complain about how horrible and horribly expensive life is in Europe ("coffee is more expensive there" whined some retard).
              The problem with this argument is that you a person can hop a short plane ride from fat Miami to Nassau Bahamas and see lean people with six pack abs who probably never exercise on purpose. On the times I was there some of the people hustling drugs on the beaches looked like they've been wearing the same closes for weeks. Yet they looked lean and healthy. They don't have the same securities as we do in the US. I've tried to find what the typical Bahamian diet was but found little on the internet.
              Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Scott F View Post
                The problem with this argument is that you a person can hop a short plane ride from fat Miami to Nassau Bahamas and see lean people with six pack abs who probably never exercise on purpose. On the times I was there some of the people hustling drugs on the beaches looked like they've been wearing the same closes for weeks. Yet they looked lean and healthy. They don't have the same securities as we do in the US. I've tried to find what the typical Bahamian diet was but found little on the internet.
                Well, your "they were the same clothes" demonstrates how ignorant you are. In many parts of the world, people tend to were what they like, quite often every day the same. I most certainly did it in my past life. Imagine my shock when one of the first thing I heard was "In America we change clothes every day" (what??? where's freedom?). The reason of course was obvious and predictable - some heavy marketing went probably decades ago into developing of a uniquely American habit. Then I watched the insanity of lunch shopping (at that time some Americans still had lunches) when mobs were attaching department stores grabbing a lot of poorly executed clothes.
                I know very little about Bahamas, but I am pretty sure that their lifestyle is entirely different.
                A friend once told a story. An American, after many mouths of some corner cubicle living went on vacation, proud of his wealth, power and an ability to enjoy the sun, water and food. Unwealthy locals giggled: they enjoy their sun, water and food year around.
                The problem with ignorance is ... well ... ignorance.
                It's always the same. Once some genius told me "But in Europe people are poor. Most cars there are small. And many people can't afford cars - they bike." I am not lying. The conversations tool place a decade ago or so.
                Last edited by anna5; 11-01-2012, 08:32 AM.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                  You sound like me and so many of my friends. And most people will say "mmmm, thyroid" and there often isn't. People don't get that we feel great and have amazing energy. I do think people like you and I probably ruined our metabolism with chronic dieting and probably for people like us, the issue was more about food sensitivity (IE, going to bet that sugar and grains made us fat). When I fully eliminate processed sugar, fat drains off of me. I honestly think my body just kept inflaming and adding fat to protect itself from a bad food and no amount of dieting without eliminating was going to change that. The good news for me is that I can eat quite a bit of whole foods, calorically if I keep the wheat and sugar out.

                  In terms of my bodies response to a small amount of wheat and sugar- for my birthday, I gained 7lbs of water that took over a week to get rid of. Now start eating this sugar and wheat daily and your body just keeps ballooning.

                  Problem is no doctors will ever say "geez, maybe it is something you aren't processing", just an assumption that you are an out of control fat ass. I think gluten and sugar sensitivity are big problems especially for women and would take a bet that if more of the "fat/fit" people fully eliminated those that would take a chunk out of that population.

                  Living without those two chemicals is SO EASY that it is clear for me that my issue was never calories in/calories out or even a diet too high in carbs. It's a straight up chemical reaction that packs on weight and makes me unhealthy.
                  Look into Dr Richard Johnson's research. He come to the belief that Metabolic Syndrome is not a disease per say but a natural seasonal response to putting on weight for lean months. There are seasonal foods the trigger animals to put on fat. All these foods do the same thing in that they drive up intracellular uric acid. That uric acid affects the mitochondria ability to produce ATP. It down regulates ATP production making the cell insulin resistant. The brain becomes leptin resistant. It makes the animal want to eat more through the course of the day and to move less in an effort to conserve energy....to put on fat reserves. Picture the stereotypical coach potato.

                  In humans the primary food that triggers this fat storage response come from fructose. Our ancestors (Grok) had access to fructose sources in summer to late fall in the form of fruits and berries...and maybe honey. It's thought (can't be proven) that the Venus Figurines' head dress from 30,000 years ago (http://www.lessing-photo.com/p2/060101/06010126.jpg) represents a beehive http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/images_download/beehive.gif.

                  The problem with humans, today, is that we have access to fructose year round from sugar, HFCS in just about everything, fruit year round, and grains like wheat. Wheat is the number one source of fructan (a polymer of fructose). That fructose causes fatty liver (other animals get it too) and uric acid production. Chronic excess production of UA leads to metabolic syndrome. Another major source for uric acid production is brewer's yeast, beer. In their lab Johnson's team put rats on non-alcoholic and they still got the equivalent of a beer belly. When I grew up in the 70s there was no such thing as "lite" beer. Miller came out with Miller Lite and most beer drinkers switched to that for the fewer calories in an effort to not get fat. Looking back, I can't tell that switching to lite beer prevented any beer bellies. All the regular beer drinkers I know have the same beer gut. You don't hear about anyone getting a wine or liquor belly.

                  You need the enzyme fructokinase to metabolize fructose. Animals and people who lack the genetics to produce fructokinase don't get obese. So that can explain why you might see someone who seems to be able to eat whatever junk food and still not get fat.

                  Here's Johnson's Bio: RICHARD J JOHNSON, M.D. | Academics | University of Colorado Denver
                  Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by anna5 View Post
                    Well, your "they were the same clothes" demonstrates how ignorant you are. In many parts of the world, people tend to were what they like, quite often every day the same. I most certainly did it in my past life. Imagine my shock when one of the first thing I heard was "In America we change clothes every day" (what??? where's freedom?). The reason of course was obvious and predictable - some heavy marketing went probably decades ago into developing of a uniquely American habit. Then I watched the insanity of lunch shopping (at that time some Americans still had lunches) when mobs were attaching department stores grabbing a lot of poorly executed clothes.
                    I know very little about Bahamas, but I am pretty sure that their lifestyle is entirely different.
                    A friend once told a story. An American, after many mouths of some corner cubicle living went on vacation, proud of his wealth, power and an ability to enjoy the sun, water and food. Unwealthy locals giggled: they enjoy their sun, water and food year around.
                    The problem with ignorance is ... well ... ignorance.
                    It's always the same. Once some genius told me "But in Europe people are poor. Most cars there are small. And many people can't afford cars - they bike." I am not lying. The conversations tool place a decade ago or so.
                    When I say wear the same cloths, anna, I mean wear the same cloths...as in dirty and never washing them.
                    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                    • #85
                      Scott, when I meant the same clothes, I meant the same clothes.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by anna5 View Post
                        Scott, when I meant the same clothes, I meant the same clothes.
                        So? Yeah I know people around the world have fewer cloths. I'll wear the same jeans days in a row if they are dirty. The guys I'm talking about we're "beach bums" whose cloths looked like they were slep in, dirty, and not washed for weeks. Yet non of these guys look like a malnourished gaunt vegan. They had the build most people strive for
                        Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          In America we are stressed beyond reason, we hate ourselves for all our imperfections, and we cure these things with cheap, delicious, addictive food.

                          When it comes to food, I am no different than an alcoholic or a drug addict. My poison is salty delicious fast foods. My behavior is just like that of an addict. Going back for more even when I know it is unhealthy, binging, secret eating, and all of it escalating during times of high stress. Then I try hard to be healthy, and I enter withdrawals. Withdrawal + a high stress incident = return to binging and self hate.

                          I am not alone in this. I am very, very self aware though, which is a recent thing. I am sure many Americans are in similar self hate / binge / health attempt / failure cycles.
                          yay!

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