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  • #31
    Originally posted by pklopp View Post
    Exactly ... I have access to an ultrasound body fat analyzer.

    The game's afoot, Watson!

    -PK
    PK - If you don't have one, can I recommend you get a blood glucose monitor and several hundred test strips? Before starting, plot out 15 minute increments of blood sugar just before and for 3hrs after eating different foods, then compare it against potatoes.

    You can make really cool graphs and you learn something while doing it about how you respond. I think that eating LC primal for years makes us insulin resistant, or at least doesn't provide insulin spikes. Insulin spikes do more than put FFA in fat cells, they cause nutrients to be transported into cells and also interact with leptin. Maybe that's a bigger part of the success of
    the Potato Diet than anything.

    Comment


    • #32
      You know what's even more crazy? That super hot man doing, like, insane jumping chin-ups on heatseeker's tumbler.... Drool... Yep, toootally more amusing than over-analyzing a crash diet.... ;-)
      Right?! I watched that for like five minutes straight before I reblogged it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
        a) I seriously don't understand why you would do the potato thing but also eat 1g/LBM protein per day. That's not the potato thing. That's just eating a lot of potatoes along with your usual food.
        Because the potato diet / hack / whatever is not sustainable precisely because it is seriously deficient in protein and especially essential fatty acids. Your thesis is that the potato is magic. Mine is that it isn't, but rather we're talking about eating an inordinately large amount of potatoes in order to eat enough calories, and most people cannot do this, which results in weight
        loss.

        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
        b) The point of the potato thing is that it restricts calories without leaving you hungry or totally devoid of nutrients. You're right, potatoes aren't magic, they just happen to be really good at making you feel full and also allowing you complete protein and a bunch of other nutrients. It wouldn't work with strawberries or twinkies or any of the other things mentioned because you'd get incredibly hungry and you wouldn't be getting adequate nutrition.
        And you've ascertained this by ... copious self-experimentation eating 10 lbs. of carrots a day? I didn't mention twinkies, by the way. I mentioned fibrous fruits and vegetables which would probably act very similarly to potatoes in the diet. You are also conflating complete protein and adequate levels of protein. Insufficient amounts of a complete protein are still inadequate.

        The overall point is if it really is a question of filling yourself up with indigestible fibre in order to keep calorie count low and satiety high, then you can design a diet that is indefinitely sustainable, healthful, has some measure of variety and can help you lose all the weight you want. Because if watermelon, strawberries, carrots work, then probably so will cabbage, cucumbers, zucchini, spinach, and so on... You can also make use of psyllium husk and flax muffins etc. etc.

        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
        c) Plain old caloric restriction has a gigantic fail rate. Read literally any thread on these forums started by a woman. That's why we can safely call this a "hack" and not just a crash diet. There is a reason it works the way it does.
        What exactly is plain old caloric restriction when you make no reference to the method? My idea to eat 10 lbs. of carrots a day would very easily slot into the plain old caloric restriction category, but you've already decided that it wouldn't work because you happen to prefer potatoes. I think it would work, precisely because you would be too full and too sick of carrots to get anywhere close to your basal caloric requirement. You are right, I am not a woman, and I can't speak on your behalf, but I am thinking that satiety has a lot to do with how much food you have to cram into yourself because there is a practical limit, and that is a gender free concept.

        Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
        d) As Matthew Berry would say, get off your high horse. Chill out. It's just a fun diet hack experiment. Nobody is killing themselves. You're certainly allowed to think it sounds stupid, and get all condescending and Poindextery about it. And then we as a collective are allowed to tell you you're acting like a douche.
        Heaven forbid that I mention wanting to understand the underlying mechanism and for further suggesting that protein just might be important. I can't recall where I said that the idea sounded stupid or that people were killing themselves. Perhaps you ought to check the transcript? Maybe you're confusing what I said with some else?

        -PK
        My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

        Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by @lex View Post
          This forum is a place for people to help others and share their experiences, not a pissing contest where you marginalize the successes of others because you don't care for their methods or what they attribute to them.
          Where did I marginalize the successes of others?

          I most certainly did say that there was no framework proposed to explain the potato magic.

          -PK
          My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

          Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by pklopp View Post
            My idea to eat 10 lbs. of carrots a day would very easily slot into the plain old caloric restriction category, but you've already decided that it wouldn't work because you happen to prefer potatoes. I think it would work, precisely because you would be too full and too sick of carrots to get anywhere close to your basal caloric requirement.
            -PK
            There is a problem with carrots, though. Carotenosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            Foods associated with this:
            Alfalfa
            Apples
            Apricots
            Asparagus
            Beans
            Beet greens
            Broccoli
            Brussels sprouts
            Butter
            Cabbage
            Cantaloupes
            Carrots
            Cheese
            Collard greens
            Cucumbers
            Eggs
            Figs
            Kale
            Kiwi
            Lettuce
            Mangoes
            Milk
            Mustard
            Oranges
            Palm oil
            Papayas
            Parsley
            Peaches
            Pineapples
            Plums
            Pumpkins
            Seaweed
            Spinach
            Squash
            Sweet potatoes
            Tomatoes
            Yams
            Yellow corn

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by pklopp View Post
              I most certainly did say that there was no framework proposed to explain the potato magic.

              -PK
              There is no potato magic. I think there are a couple of other foods that could do the same thing. Rice and Cassava. Maybe more, but definitely not carrots or any of the others you've mentioned.

              Comment


              • #37
                How can you prove it's hokum if you don't do it for real, insufficient protein and all?
                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by otzi View Post
                  There is a problem with carrots, though. Carotenosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                  Damn, now I know where the idea for spray tanning came from.
                  Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own experience.

                  In the mind of the beginner, there are many possibilities; in the mind of the expert, there are few.


                  I've shaken hands with a raccoon and lived to tell the tale

                  SW: 220- 225 pounds at the beginning of January
                  CW: 180 pounds

                  Goals for 2012: Lose a bit more fat and start a serious muscle and strength routine

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by otzi View Post
                    Insulin spikes do more than put FFA in fat cells, they cause nutrients to be transported into cells and also interact with leptin. Maybe that's a bigger part of the success of
                    the Potato Diet than anything.
                    The principal reason that I want to ensure adequate protein intake is because insulin promotes protein synthesis ... which is a complete waste if there is no supplemental protein being ingested.

                    -PK
                    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by @lex View Post
                      Damn, now I know where the idea for spray tanning came from.
                      Since they're lipid soluble, you should be ok as long as you only eat carrots ... !

                      Still...

                      -PK
                      My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                      Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Yeah, I really can't help you if you can't see why myself and the other responders here found your original post to be snotty BS. That's just going to be something you'll eventually figure out on your own.

                        As to your points about the actual Potato Thing (as I have taken to calling it, because calling it a "diet" is wrong, calling it a "fast" is wronger and calling it a "hack" sends concern-trolls into a tizzy), you keep talking about making it "sustainable". It's not meant to be sustainable. It's meant to be a quick and dirty way to either a) lose the dreaded Last Ten Pounds or b) bust through a stall/plateau. Nobody is making an entire lifestyle out of potato eating. It's 10-14 days. The end.

                        You are also conflating complete protein and adequate levels of protein.
                        I am not. I never said anything like that. Nobody is arguing that 20-30g of protein a day is enough for long periods of time. This is A WEEK. Maybe two weeks, if you have really good self-control (I do not). Eating low protein for a week is not going to harm or even have any large detrimental effect on anyone's muscle mass, unless--and this is important--they already have a low BF% and therefore have nothing else to burn. This is only for people with extra fat to burn for fuel. For 10-14 days. The end.

                        And you've ascertained this by ... copious self-experimentation eating 10 lbs. of carrots a day? I didn't mention twinkies, by the way. I mentioned fibrous fruits and vegetables which would probably act very similarly to potatoes in the diet.
                        Except that they would not make you feel full, and you would get hungry and sad, and quit. Potatoes make you feel full, allowing for sustained caloric restriction without the mental/physical agony of being hungry and sad. I can't understand why this isn't getting across.

                        Your thesis is that the potato is magic.
                        The hell... I literally said the words "potatoes aren't magic". And you're snarking at other people about reading comprehension?

                        It should be mentioned that I have no idea what it is about potatoes that makes this work, and I don't claim to. Otzi presented some theories in his original thread. I would be all for somebody figuring out the Science behind why it works the way it does. I mean, it's obvious that it works by caloric restriction, but why do potatoes make you feel so full and satisfied when you're not actually getting adequate levels of fat and protein? What's happening to the metabolism that makes this work? Etc.

                        I am going to chronicle this on my own website where I can keep the insipid comments to a minimum, hopefully.

                        If that didn't make sense, I can probably make it simpler, but not by much.

                        Whatever your forte may be, reading comprehension is not it.
                        Again... really, you REALLY don't know why we think your posts are snotty BS?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                          How can you prove it's hokum if you don't do it for real, insufficient protein and all?
                          I'm not saying it's hokum. I'm saying it has to do with appetite control : satiety. Potatoes literally fill you up, while other foods not so much. It is this "filling up" that leads you to eat less and lose weight. That's it. Fasting does the same thing, but doesn't monkey about with satiety. You simply accept that you will go hungry for a bit, and get on with it.

                          If it really is just about filling you up, then you can do that and still get enough protein and fats to do this indefinitely. Even by eating potatoes in the mix.

                          I think carbophobia is just as much hysteria as the great cholesterol freak we're coming out of. There is nothing inherently evil about a potato, nor is there anything magical, as far as my understanding of metabolism goes.k

                          Don't you find it interesting how people have latched on to potatoes as some sort of weight loss talisman? It's as if I am attacking their religion here, when all I said was I intended to find out whether there was anything to it.

                          -PK
                          My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                          Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                            Again... really, you REALLY don't know why we think your posts are snotty BS?
                            If you really want to discredit me and don't care how you go about it, there are better ways than just taking my replies out of context ... you could, for example, simply take individual words that I have written at some point and string them together to make them say whatever you wanted.

                            This was the context:

                            I can't believe you would write such a long, supposedly intellectual criticism of the all-potato diet simply because you refuse to admit that glucose, even in large quantities, is safe for human beings to eat.

                            What's wrong with you, exactly?
                            Let's drill this again: I never said the hack / diet / religion /thingy doesn't work. I suspect it can work better if we understand how it works. Read what I said.

                            -PK
                            Last edited by pklopp; 10-25-2012, 04:29 PM.
                            My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                            Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              People are trashing you for your condescending and rude attitude, not because you're trying to delve deeper into the whole potato thing.

                              I'll just leave this here, it seems relevant.....




                              Also, if you search google images for the term "douche" it's just a bunch of pictures of guidos, which made me laugh.
                              Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own experience.

                              In the mind of the beginner, there are many possibilities; in the mind of the expert, there are few.


                              I've shaken hands with a raccoon and lived to tell the tale

                              SW: 220- 225 pounds at the beginning of January
                              CW: 180 pounds

                              Goals for 2012: Lose a bit more fat and start a serious muscle and strength routine

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by pklopp View Post
                                Because the potato diet / hack / whatever is not sustainable precisely because it is seriously deficient in protein and especially essential fatty acids.
                                PK, you are a fast master. I am curious, how do you see this any differently than fasting which also is deficient in protein? Neither is talking forever.

                                A wiseman I once read, had this to say and I will change one word to tator, so it is not an exact quote, but close. I feel this could preface the tator thread as well.

                                First thing first, just to get it out of the way, tator fasting is not a miracle cure for all that ails you. I think that there is a lot there to recommend it to people, I practice my version of it, and have been at it for coming on three years now, and I fully intend to keep doing it. I do recognize, however, that it cannot be all things to all people. If anyone tries to tell you that one size fits all, then you are dealing with a blatant charlatan and you ought to govern yourself accordingly.
                                65lbs gone and counting!!

                                Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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