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Why the Ikarians live the longest on plant based- Article in NY Times

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  • #31
    I read this article a day or two ago and I'm far too lazy to re-read it to see if organs are mentioned. Greeks are much more apt to use organs than your typical American. Years ago, I remember being horrified to learn that at some point I would be proffered a sheep eyeball soup.

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    • #32
      I'd bet a million bucks that another very strong correlation would be that they don't spend very much time at all watching tv or on the internet. Two things that lead to not moving.

      Also, I'm guessing they spend very little time worrying about the perfect diet, and spend a lot more time gathering and preparing good, delicious meals that they enjoy preparing and eating.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by VeggieLover View Post
        True, I guess after reading blue zones etc, they really stress the idea of a MOSTLY plant based diet. I would not call this very primal though, where the emphasis is on animal products throughout the day. I personally do better with less animal in my diet, so I feel that I can relate to this way of life very much.
        I disagree with this understanding/definition of primal.

        The diet above -- save the bread -- is basically primal.

        Looking at your description, they eat fish two days a week and meat 5 times a month which means that it's once a week with one week having meat twice. That's three meals a week with meat.

        It appears -- through some internet research -- that their bean soups and vegetable stews include salted goat meat (in small quantities) and also bone broths. This is also not vegetarian and is very primal.

        Likewise, they consume goat cheese (and likely milk, yogurt, and butter as well), which is probably consumed daily considering how many goats apparently freely roam the island.

        It's also quite high in fat, likely, due to the addition of copious amounts of olive oil (from all accounts). It is entirely possible to have a high-fat diet based in olive oil -- even getting as many as 40% calories from this source.

        All of this follows primal.

        From the looks of it, it's simply one day on meat one day off, and that's simple enough. I do that with eggs some weeks (a day with eggs, veggies, and a piece of fruit) and then other days might have meat (but not eggs, or maybe eggs, etc).

        All of this seems to me like a perfectly primal diet.

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        • #34
          I was actually asked about the Greek diet myself recently during my speech about Primal, the question was focused on their bread consumption.

          They certainly do eat plenty of bread.

          The question is; while we stay away from bread for digestion reasons, is it possible that whatever they do eat is not as harmful due to being more "local"? It was a good question, I had no real answer.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by rkd80 View Post
            I was actually asked about the Greek diet myself recently during my speech about Primal, the question was focused on their bread consumption.

            They certainly do eat plenty of bread.

            The question is; while we stay away from bread for digestion reasons, is it possible that whatever they do eat is not as harmful due to being more "local"? It was a good question, I had no real answer.
            The answer is in the production. Look into WAPF for how traditional methods of preparation make grains more tolerable for human consumption. It doesn't mean you "need bread", its just that if you wish to include it there are methods of rendering it safer.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by VeggieLover View Post
              True, I guess after reading blue zones etc, they really stress the idea of a MOSTLY plant based diet. I would not call this very primal though, where the emphasis is on animal products throughout the day. I personally do better with less animal in my diet, so I feel that I can relate to this way of life very much.
              I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone on this site that doesn't eat a "mostly" plant-based diet. I am willing to bet I consume more meat than 90% of the people on this site, easily 150-200g of protein daily, and I consume far more vegetables than I eat meat.

              The bulk of your calories should come from animals, the bulk of your weight and volume should come from plants. That's how I live, and it seems to be working fine.

              All you are saying is that an omnivorous diet free of modern foods seems to be ideal. All I have to say to that is "no kidding."

              If Americans only ate small quantities of non-GMO properly fermented sourdough bread, I imagine we'd have very limited health issues by comparison. There is a big difference between organic ancient wheat that's been fermented by sourdough starter (not baker's yeast!) for days and genetically-modified high-gluten quick rise white bread made with baker's yeast and fortified with soybean oil. That's what we eat here.

              Here is a picture of my last grocery excursion:



              I challenge you to find a vegetarian that eats more vegetables than me. The vegetarians I know barely even eat vegetables! Unless you consider grilled cheese, black bean brownies and pizza vegetables.

              IBFcorntortillasaren'tprimal. Primal no, healthy, yes, but ONLY these specific ones.
              Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 02-20-2013, 10:28 AM.
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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              • #37
                I have not had a vegetable in months. Fruit and meat all the way down my hatch..
                Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

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                • #38
                  I think the fact that they live in a benign conditions, worry free has more to do with it than macros of their diet. If they ate meat daily they'd still be as hale waking up at 10 am, to the sound of the sea, stretching up, going unhurriedly about whatever chores, and spending long warm evenings under the stars talking things over a few olives.
                  My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                  When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                  • #39
                    I don't know about you guys, but I am ready to move to Ikaria. :3 What a lovely picture that article painted.
                    yay!

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                    • #40
                      I spent several weeks each in Southern Greece and in Southwestern Turkey. They have the same diet and I loved it beyond all other national cuisines. Later, back home, when The Mediteranian Diet became popular I gave it a good try. And let me tell you, it has nothing to do with what the Greeks and Turks eat. Their food is so good.

                      Breakfast - yogurt from goats milk, sweet and runny, lots of fresh fruit, at least 3 different cheeses, bananas, apricots, plums mostly, stone ground bread and sweet butter, lots of different jams, eggs, always shell fish. Their meals are very different culturally. They eat slowly, conversation is more important. They take a bite inbetween conversing, no on talks with food in their mouths. It's pleasant and relaxed. Work starts about 10 - 11am.
                      Lunch - the same with no bread, fresh fish, just caught, or live shell fish still wiggling. The don't eat dead shell fish, it's unhealthy. Maybe some root veggies, mashed. These two meals take 1 hour each. After lunch is at least a 1 hour siesta.
                      Dinner - the same, no bread, cooked green leaves, root veggies wilh lots of spices, fish, maybe meat. But their meat is so bad you wouldn't want to eat it. In all mediteranean countries that is the same. They slice it pretty thin, skewer it on a stick, and cook it over a fire until it's leather. It's always hard to eat. It's called beekstead, goat, lamb, etc. Al lthe same.

                      Their diet produces very, very loose stools, even in me. That's why they don't need toilets, just holes. You don't have to sqwat for more than 1 minute and you're done. Well no wonder.

                      Every restaurant, public or private building, even buses and subways have rose leaves and perfume throughout. It's rose country. And it always smells good. (Seems easier than cleaning everything as much as we do.)

                      I tried to duplicate their diet by buying the same foods here, but that is not possible. Only the names are the same and none of it tastes anywhere near as good as what they eat.
                      Last edited by Cryptocode; 02-20-2013, 02:21 PM.
                      "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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                      • #41
                        Another blue zone article,
                        Although I do think there is some useful info in the blue zone thing, when i looked at them there seemed to be a lot of selective bias, an unbiased examination I expect would produce a more moderated conclusion.

                        Corrolation is not Causation!

                        Why did his wife die at age 85 and not live to 100?

                        Along with other things mentioned the Okinawan myth still continues, they didn't live as long as reported and they did fry nearly everything in lard, sure they did live longer than average but reports were selectively biased and unsubstantiated in many cases.

                        Another thing that may play a big role in some of theses anomolies may also be soil type, I saw some geographic studies and I believe Ikaria was one of those, basically two greek islands one Volcanic sulphur bases soils, the other Limestone based, basically same diet & lifestyle, sulphur people lived longer. Ikaria is the Sulphur one:
                        About the IKARIA Name: IKARIA
                        There is also talk that this may well be one of the reasons that the mediterranian diet did not stop Americans from having heart attacks, does this mean if you up your sulphur you'll pass 100, maybe if you have ticked all the other boxes.
                        Was it sheep or goat cheese, doesn't matter both are A2 beta Caesin, bread yes, but that would have been imported flour so likely nowhere near the overall cereal consumption of US etc.

                        And Yeah, they are primal/paleo more than vegan.
                        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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