Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

To stay in ketosis

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
    CICO assumption: If you eat 3500 calories more than you use over time, you’ll gain one pound. And conversely, if you eat 3500 calories less than you use over time, you’ll lose one pound.

    Based on some of the calorie calculators around the web, it takes approximately 1890 calories per day for a 200 pound sedentary woman age 55 to maintain her weight. That would be 58,590 calories in a 31 day month.
    That is not an assumption of CICO. That is your assumption. CICO simply means you have to have an energy deficit to lose weight and an energy surplus to gain weight. That is fact.

    Your math is all wrong because according to CICO, if you overeat 100 calories a day, you will gain weight - until that becomes your new maintenance - which happens rather quickly. Then, you will only gain weight if you further continue increase calories. This makes the entire rest of your post incorrect, which is why your math doesn't work out to reality.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Lawyerchick12 View Post
      I disagree with Choco on his argument that it is the "blandness" of Ketogenic diets that make people lose weight.
      You're missing the point. Ketogenic diets are very limited in food choices - when you compare them to a diet that limits nothing. You may actually enjoy the foods you're eating on a ketogenic diet. It is still a very limited diet and blander than a diet that restricts nothing.

      Therefore, a ketogenic diet is blander than a low-carb diet, and a low-carb diet is blander than a diet that restricts no macros.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
        You're missing the point. Ketogenic diets are very limited in food choices - when you compare them to a diet that limits nothing. You may actually enjoy the foods you're eating on a ketogenic diet. It is still a very limited diet and blander than a diet that restricts nothing.

        Therefore, a ketogenic diet is blander than a low-carb diet, and a low-carb diet is blander than a diet that restricts no macros.
        A ketogenic diet does not "restrict" any food. A ketogenic diet moderates carb intake. So as stated, one can eat an apple and follow a ketogenic diet.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
          You're missing the point. Ketogenic diets are very limited in food choices - when you compare them to a diet that limits nothing. You may actually enjoy the foods you're eating on a ketogenic diet. It is still a very limited diet and blander than a diet that restricts nothing.

          Therefore, a ketogenic diet is blander than a low-carb diet, and a low-carb diet is blander than a diet that restricts no macros.
          But restricting certain foods doesn't necessarily have anything to do with blandness with respect to palatability. Why do you think it's the case that the food that's left is less tasty? Maybe you could call the choices 'bland' since there are fewer of them (yet still not few choices), but I think most people will report the opposite feeling. Maybe people eat less on them, but that's not because the food is boring.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by anelae22 View Post
            A ketogenic diet does not "restrict" any food. A ketogenic diet moderates carb intake. So as stated, one can eat an apple and follow a ketogenic diet.
            So If I'm on a ketogenic diet, I can have as much fruit, vegetables and starches with my meal as I want? Or must I only be allowed a certain amount or under to stay in that state? Am I counting and restricting something or am I free to eat blindly? Can I make my dinner be a chicken breast, a large sweet potato, some white rice and two bananas from dessert? I can easily eat that in a meal without issue and they all fit into a Primal eating plan.
            Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 10-22-2012, 10:03 AM.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by sjmc View Post
              But restricting certain foods doesn't necessarily have anything to do with blandness with respect to palatability. Why do you think it's the case that the food that's left is less tasty? Maybe you could call the choices 'bland' since there are fewer of them (yet still not few choices), but I think most people will report the opposite feeling. Maybe people eat less on them, but that's not because the food is boring.
              You are restricting roughly half the foods available to you in nature. You are adhering to an extremely low count of carbohydrate. That means over half the food pyramid is off limits. Maybe you can survive on just steak, eggs and spinach. Maybe you actually would enjoy it because those are your three favorite foods. It's still a comparatively bland diet. Did you read any of those links? It's the adherence of a diet that often determines success, and if you can adhere to a ketogenic diet, it's typically successful because of very limited food choices. Go to a buffet, a potluck or a restaurant and try to find something to eat. As it is now, I find at least 50% of the menu is off limits to begin with due to grains. A ketogenic diet knocks off 90% in many cases. Don't forget you have to limit meat consumption as well because if you pass the 2g/lb lean body mass threshold (or significantly less if you don't lift weights), you're probably converting the protein into enough glucose to knock you out of ketosis.

              It's the most restrictive diet I've ever tried by far.
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                You are restricting roughly half the foods available to you in nature. You are adhering to an extremely low count of carbohydrate. That means over half the food pyramid is off limits. Maybe you can survive on just steak, eggs and spinach. Maybe you actually would enjoy it because those are your three favorite foods. It's still a comparatively bland diet. Did you read any of those links? It's the adherence of a diet that often determines success, and if you can adhere to a ketogenic diet, it's typically successful because of very limited food choices. Go to a buffet, a potluck or a restaurant and try to find something to eat. As it is now, I find at least 50% of the menu is off limits to begin with due to grains. A ketogenic diet knocks off 90% in many cases. Don't forget you have to limit meat consumption as well because if you pass the 2g/lb lean body mass threshold (or significantly less if you don't lift weights), you're probably converting the protein into enough glucose to knock you out of ketosis.

                It's the most restrictive diet I've ever tried by far.
                Well I am thinking of a diet that allows dairy, but even without you're exaggerating quite a bit suggesting you can only eat steak, eggs, and spinach. Whenever I've done it it's basically been primal minus tubers.

                Just as people take 'sad' foods and make them primal, you can pretty much make anything keto too. It's got the same double-eged sword thing going on that primal does. I check the keto reddit sometimes and some recipes are absolutely amazing. So sure there is some satiety mechanism (or just self control) helping those people eat less and lose weight, but it needn't be the blandness of their food. If anything, I think keto food is hyper-palatable. Even when you're not going for faux-something.

                Comment


                • #38
                  A ketogenic diet does not "restrict" any food. A ketogenic diet moderates carb intake. So as stated, one can eat an apple and follow a ketogenic diet.
                  A slice, maybe, and that is not recommended, because... some very complicated reasons that involve many other complicated reasons. Fruit is a no-no when you are trying to go into ketosis. Also, good quality ketosis limits proteins rather severely as well as carbs, which makes ketonic eating a daily challenge, particularly if you try to set caloric limit low. I found that protein limit is actually harder than the do not eat fruit clause and the stay under 25 g of carbs clause.
                  My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                  When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                    So If I'm on a ketogenic diet, I can have as much fruit, vegetables and starches with my meal as I want? Or must I only be allowed a certain amount or under to stay in that state? Am I counting and restricting something or am I free to eat blindly? Can I make my dinner be a chicken breast, a large sweet potato, some white rice and two bananas from dessert? I can easily eat that in a meal without issue and they all fit into a Primal eating plan.
                    If you are on a ketogenic diet you can have any of the above. 'Restriction' and 'quantity' are not the same so blandness is not an issue as you had stated. It appears you misunderstood my statement of carbs being modified rather than restricted.
                    As a personal choice, I'd prefer coconut-curry chicken breast, spiced rice with raisins, a sweet potato hashbrown and banana pudding. Without a doubt, it can be keto, Primal and not bland.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Leida View Post
                      A slice, maybe, and that is not recommended, because... some very complicated reasons that involve many other complicated reasons. Fruit is a no-no when you are trying to go into ketosis. Also, good quality ketosis limits proteins rather severely as well as carbs, which makes ketonic eating a daily challenge, particularly if you try to set caloric limit low. I found that protein limit is actually harder than the do not eat fruit clause and the stay under 25 g of carbs clause.
                      Assuming we are discussing a ketogenic diet for weight loss, any and everything can be incorporated depending on the creativity of the dieter. 25 g of carbs for induction is fine. For long term keto dieters, many can easily incorporate more carbs into their eating plan while maintaining a state of ketosis. Also, ketosis is the result of low CHO intake, not the result of high fat intake. A PSMF is also a ketogenic diet.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                        So If I'm on a ketogenic diet, I can have as much fruit, vegetables and starches with my meal as I want?
                        Fruit, vegetables and starches (which you assume are 100% off-limits on a ketogenic diet) are in fact some of the blander options out there. When I think of things that are not bland, I think of things like garlic, mustard, onions, liver, kidneys, bacon, horseradish, chili peppers, salsa, seafood, limes and lemons, wine, sauces, spices etc.

                        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                        You are restricting roughly half the foods available to you in nature.
                        Half the foods in nature? Are you kidding? I eat the same exact foods whether I eat ketogenically or higher in carbohydrates. I just eat more of the carbohydrates in one setting and more of the fats in the other. Nothing is eliminated.
                        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                          Important note: the ONLY reason why ketosis seems to accelerate fat loss is there is very, very little food reward to a ketogenic diet. There is only so much steak and eggs to eat. Without a starch or vegetable, it makes eating not very palatable. This leads to a reduction of food because, frankly, it's not a very tasty diet. This all comes down to a caloric deficit, and if ketosis is working for your weight loss, it's solely because food has become more bland and boring and you're consuming less of it.

                          If you are going to be miserable eating a ketogenic diet because you love fruits and vegetables, don't do it. A miserable diet is not sustainable. Find what works for you so you can stick to it for life, and if you increase carbohydrate, remember to reduce fat in kind or it'll just wind up increasing your calorie intake.
                          BULLSHIT


                          nothin but love for you man, and I have eaten steak and eggs for almost 2 years now and it never gets old.


                          Steak with salt and pepper

                          steak with paprika and garlic

                          steak with lemon and lavander

                          Steak never gets old.

                          NEEVAH
                          Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                          Predator not Prey
                          Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                          CW 315 | SW 506
                          Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                          Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by chocotaco369 View Post
                            1.) weight loss and gain is entirely caloric. You cannot gain weight without consuming an energy surplus. You cannot lose weight without an energy deficit. There is no metabolic advantage to different macronutrient ratios for solely weight loss. This is a fact and not an oversimplification. It just really is that simple.

                            ketogenic low-carbohydrate diets have no metabolic advantage over nonketogenic low-carbohydrate diets | bodyrecomposition - the home of lyle mcdonald

                            how we get fat | bodyrecomposition - the home of lyle mcdonald

                            the sensible middle part 1 in defence of calories | core concepts wellness

                            finally, a study that proves a low-carb metabolic advantage? Yeah, right… « anthonycolpo

                            new swedish low-carb study: Another load of epidemi-hogwash « anthonycolpo

                            another weight loss study showing compliance is more important than diet type « anthonycolpo

                            whole health source: Calories and carbohydrate: A natural experiment

                            2.) ketogenic diets will only work due to one reason: Calorie restriction. If you are losing weight on a ketogenic diet faster than any other kind of diet, it can only be because you are maintaining a different greater calorie deficit. This could be for several reasons:

                            A.) you find the food to be more filling, so you eat less of it.
                            B.) there are less choices and therefore you are less interested in food as a whole.
                            C.) the food doesn't taste as good, so you don't want to eat as much.

                            This is such a brilliant article.

                            cheat day strategies for a hedonist | intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health



                            and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why a ketogenic diet works for some people. The limited food choices make people less obsessed with food since they don't feel the need to "try everything on the table," the overall blandness of the diet discourages overconsumption and the invariably greater intake of meat and very fibrous vegetables leads to slower digestion and increased satiety. which allows for a more easily maintained calorie deficit.

                            it's that simple. ( for most people who just need to shut their cake hole )
                            ftfy
                            Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                            Predator not Prey
                            Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                            CW 315 | SW 506
                            Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                            Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by sjmc View Post
                              Well I am thinking of a diet that allows dairy, but even without you're exaggerating quite a bit suggesting you can only eat steak, eggs, and spinach. Whenever I've done it it's basically been primal minus tubers.

                              Just as people take 'sad' foods and make them primal, you can pretty much make anything keto too. It's got the same double-eged sword thing going on that primal does. I check the keto reddit sometimes and some recipes are absolutely amazing. So sure there is some satiety mechanism (or just self control) helping those people eat less and lose weight, but it needn't be the blandness of their food. If anything, I think keto food is hyper-palatable. Even when you're not going for faux-something.
                              Dairy is a very small portion of the foods available - probably the smallest portion of any "food group." In addition, you are only allowed small quantities of non-lactose dairy. Most ketogenic diets only allow <2 oz of no-lactose cheese as it is. Tiny amounts of select dairy does not sound like much of a splurge.

                              I'm not exaggerating at all. I tried it for 7 weeks. It's awful and I'd carb binge like mad on the weekends because I did a CKD. The only people exaggerating are the people saying it isn't restrictive. It's far more restrictive than, say, vegetarian or vegan diets, and I'm assuming most of you would think that's pretty damn restrictive.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by quelsen View Post
                                BULLSHIT


                                nothin but love for you man, and I have eaten steak and eggs for almost 2 years now and it never gets old.


                                Steak with salt and pepper

                                steak with paprika and garlic

                                steak with lemon and lavander

                                Steak never gets old.

                                NEEVAH
                                That's good that you can maintain a food intake that limited. It will really help you maintain leanness for the rest of your life since it's difficult to binge on those foods. Again, as food choices increase, typically so do daily calories. If the overwhelming majority of foods do not hold any appeal to you, or you consider them "off limits" for certain reasons, that will really help keep your food in check. Most people cannot do this, which is why most diets fail. People can't maintain the feeling of restriction for long enough, and they binge.

                                I love steak and eggs. They are two of my most consumed foods. I would love some right now. But if you made me eat nothing but steak and eggs, I would last maybe 2-3 days before I freaked out and drove 100 mph to an ice cream stand. Ok, THAT was an exaggeration, but I'd be miserable. And so would most.
                                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X