Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help designing a meal plan...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help designing a meal plan...

    So, my mother wants to experiment with a ketogenically diet, so she's asked me to create a meal plan for her. But she's told me that she still subscribes to the lipid hypothesis and has said she is looking to keep her saturated fat and cholesterol intake levels at or below CW recommended levels.

    One step at a time I guess. I still want her to be able to try out a ketogenically diet to see how she feels, whether she loses weight, and get her to try something she has never considered before so I'm puzzling over this.

    Can anyone provide some advice and insight as to how one might make a ketogenic diet possible while still using CW saturated fat and cholesterol levels? I've thought that it would be best to try and keep omega-6 levels as low as possible for obvious reasons.

    Obviously the bulk of fats would likely have to be monounsaturated fats, but what other pieces of advice can you throw my way that might make this work?

    Argh, this is so much easier when you don't have the lipid hypothesis hang-up.
    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

  • #2
    Olive Oil. Olive Oil. Olive Oil.

    That says to me mediterranean things like pestos, fancy cheeses, nice fruits, smoked salmon etc etc
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
      Olive Oil. Olive Oil. Olive Oil.

      I'd also go fairly heavy on the fruit as well.
      The problem with the fruit is that it would likely kick her out of ketogenesis. It's not lipid hypothesis primal, it's lipid hypothesis ketogenic diet.

      Kind of tricky.

      Oh, and yes to lots of olive oil. Have to be careful not to overdue protein so ketosis could be maintained.
      Last edited by Drumroll; 10-14-2012, 08:47 PM.
      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

      Comment


      • #4
        Anyone? Any. One?
        "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

        Comment


        • #5
          sounds like you just need to put together some VLC primal foods, but aim for the leaner options. fish is always a great option, and can help even out the omega ratio if she eats a lot of chicken or turkey. and there are plenty of leaner red meat options out there for her to try. i actually go for the leanest cuts of conventional meats, and they're super easy to find. obviously, you'll want to stick with the darker colored veggies, and be liberal with the fats. olive oil is great. using coconut oil a lot should really help sate her, and everyone thinks that stuff is basically the best stuff on earth, so she shouldn't find any negative info on it.

          i also think coconut milk might be a way to really get in some extra fat. i'm pretty sure there are some recipes on here that use it to make a cream, or as a braising liquid, etc.
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by primalrob View Post
            sounds like you just need to put together some VLC primal foods, but aim for the leaner options. fish is always a great option, and can help even out the omega ratio if she eats a lot of chicken or turkey. and there are plenty of leaner red meat options out there for her to try. i actually go for the leanest cuts of conventional meats, and they're super easy to find. obviously, you'll want to stick with the darker colored veggies, and be liberal with the fats. olive oil is great. using coconut oil a lot should really help sate her, and everyone thinks that stuff is basically the best stuff on earth, so she shouldn't find any negative info on it.

            i also think coconut milk might be a way to really get in some extra fat. i'm pretty sure there are some recipes on here that use it to make a cream, or as a braising liquid, etc.
            Problem is, if you just shove a lot of chicken breasts into someone, even though it's VLC, at some point, that protein at such high levels will knock 'em out of ketosis. The ketosis style is generally "high fat, moderate protein, very low carbs."

            It's hard to go moderate on the protein if you only have the very high protein lean meats to work with and cannot use fattier cuts.
            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

            Comment


            • #7
              I would try to rely mostly on seafood if you're worried about lean cuts of meat being too high in protein for ketosis. Using eggs could also be beneficial, though your mom might fear the cholesterol in them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by vb66 View Post
                I would try to rely mostly on seafood if you're worried about lean cuts of meat being too high in protein for ketosis. Using eggs could also be beneficial, though your mom might fear the cholesterol in them.
                She has already said eggs in moderation (two or three times a week max) and no more than two eggs in one meal. Argh!
                "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Honestly, I just don't see how one can obtain a sufficient caloric intake in ketosis while restricting cholesterol and saturated fat. I think she needs to do some good reading about the benefits of ketosis, and the cholesterol myth, and discussion of natural saturated fats and lack of correlation to heart disease. Also some reading about the association of carbohydrates and increasing cholesterol and triglycerides.

                  If one is trying to restrict fats, and maintain ketosis, they will end up eating a very calorie restricted diet and feel miserable.

                  Sbhikes posted this thread a week or so ago. It is a fantastic resource.

                  The Low Carb Megathread 4: Eat Bacon, Lose Weight, Live the Dream! - The Something Awful Forums

                  Have mom read it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                    Problem is, if you just shove a lot of chicken breasts into someone, even though it's VLC, at some point, that protein at such high levels will knock 'em out of ketosis. The ketosis style is generally "high fat, moderate protein, very low carbs."

                    It's hard to go moderate on the protein if you only have the very high protein lean meats to work with and cannot use fattier cuts.
                    that's where the extra fat comes in. are you thinking 2 meals a day? 3?
                    i would drench broccoli, asparagus, eggplant, tomatoes(maybe), cauliflower, etc. in oils and roast the hell out of them. a plate full of lower-carb veggies with a couple of chicken thighs or a turkey leg on the side should do the trick. eggs are good too, but for me it's easier going over on the protein than it is with meat (probably because i don't have the plate full of veggies), and she's going to object to a high degree of dietary cholesterol.
                    as far as the lean meats without the fat...just add your own fat. she may not like the idea of butter because it's been demonized, but maybe she would go for some organic, grass fed versions...or there's always more coconut oil.

                    here are the kinds of meals i would try putting together:

                    93% lean burgers with kale chips and pickles

                    roasted broccoli with a side of lean steak

                    turkey leg and roasted asparagus

                    chili verde made with chicken thighs

                    grilled salmon on a king sized bed of sauteed greens
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yeah, I have a feeling that there will be a lot of fish in this diet. Shrimp is out due to "high cholesterol." Chicken is in, but mossy l likely ONLY if it is skinless. Maybe lean pork chops will be ok for her, but they'll be a harder sell.

                      Coconut oil is a no since it is high in saturated fats. Without the high O-6 oils, probably the ONLY oil that is acceptable is olive oil. *sigh*
                      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Veggies are almost all a go though, minus a couple like brussel sprouts that she dislikes.

                        Butter, ghee, tallow, and lard are a no go as well.
                        "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                          Yeah, I have a feeling that there will be a lot of fish in this diet. Shrimp is out due to "high cholesterol." Chicken is in, but mossy l likely ONLY if it is skinless. Maybe lean pork chops will be ok for her, but they'll be a harder sell.

                          Coconut oil is a no since it is high in saturated fats. Without the high O-6 oils, probably the ONLY oil that is acceptable is olive oil. *sigh*
                          Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                          Veggies are almost all a go though, minus a couple like brussel sprouts that she dislikes.

                          Butter, ghee, tallow, and lard are a no go as well.
                          damn. i'm not sure that going ketogenic is going to work. at the very least, it will be boring as hell. at least if someone has agreed to drop grains and sugar, it's a step in the right direction. maybe with a little time things will loosen up and there will be more willingness to experiment a bit.
                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by primalrob View Post
                            damn. i'm not sure that going ketogenic is going to work. at the very least, it will be boring as hell. at least if someone has agreed to drop grains and sugar, it's a step in the right direction. maybe with a little time things will loosen up and there will be more willingness to experiment a bit.
                            I'm hoping so! And she hasn't agreed to drop the grains and sugar so much as she just wants to "experiment with ketosis" is what she told me. A temporary experience to see if she enjoys how she feels and whether or not it might be worth her time to consider a new diet.
                            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              "Mom, I've done some research, I can send you links if you want, but basically a healthy, maintainable ketogenic diet isn't compatible with the lipid hypothesis. What would you like to do?"

                              Done. Ball's back in her court. She's an adult, make her act like one.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X