Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Baby Formula

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    1



    Forgive my sombre post, but in answer to Jeffrw, if mum wasn't able to feed then baby would die. Simple as.


    SS - maybe baby is old enough to move onto solids with goat milk? I hear that goat is better than cow, and at least real milk dodges the soy and veggie oil issue?

    Good luck, and I'm glad that you're trying to help

    Comment


    • #17
      1



      thanks NM. I don't feel qualified to give advice about infant nutrition, as their nutrient requirements and sensitivities vary from adults. For example, according to some info online, supplementing with fish oil at early ages could result in motor impairments, egg whites would be string allergens, etc.


      I also read about goat milk being a better breast milk replacement because it's less insulogenic than cow milk.


      But even goat milk would need strong supplementation to match infant nutritional requirements. The home-made formula recipe from Weston Price reflects that.


      Finally, I am not sure when it's safe to make a complete transition to solids. Maybe after full teeth growth. But then hunter gatherers breastfeed on average until the babies are 2.5 y/o, so I'm not sure...

      “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
      "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
      "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

      Comment


      • #18
        1



        FWIW, a friend of mine began weaning at 4 months and by 10 months baby was on solids (well, babyfood mush) and cow milk only.

        However the family barely counted as healthy CW, never mind primal :/ but baby seemed bright and happy at the time.

        Comment


        • #19
          1

          [quote]

          Forgive my sombre post, but in answer to Jeffrw, if mum wasn&#39;t able to feed then baby would die. Simple as.</blockquote>


          Paleo mamas living in a tribe who had milk supply problems (if they ever did--I&#39;m sure many of today&#39;s mamas have far more issues w/ our poor diets and lack of seeing other women nursing...) would probably have the other women in the tribe who were lactating be a &#39;wet-nurse&#39; for their babes. I read about a tribal culture in which a newborn&#39;s introduction to the tribe is to be nursed by every women there--those who are or are not lactating. I have friends who have babysat for their girlfriend&#39;s babes and have nursed each other&#39;s kiddos (which probably sounds weird to some, but it&#39;s something they were comfy with.) I doubt that a tribe that had any lactating women around (and there would probably be more with kiddos nursing to 3, 4 and beyond...) would allow a new baby to starve if the mama had serious nursing issues...


          A baby born w/ tongue tie or who comes out w/ a poor latch--that might be a different story in paleo times, although a lifetime of seeing other women nursing, along w/the support of having those experienced women around, I&#39;m certain, helped to increase the ability of the mamas to support their kiddos through those types of scenarios. (Poor latch can be corrected by help from the mama and positioning, so I bet just having the experience of seeing others nursing throughout their lives helped mamas know what to do in that situation.)


          Also, there are MANY herbal galactagogues, which help increase milk supply and let down frequency, etc. I utilized some and they worked wonders for me. (I had supply problems and ds was 3 months when we FINALLY had our milk supply/nursing relationship established.) I&#39;m betting Grokette knew lots about them and utilized them when needed back in the day...

          Comment


          • #20
            1



            SS - I am currently breastfeeding my 11 month old (my 3rd child), but she is down to just 4 times a day. I&#39;ve never had supply issues - even while in ketosis - unless I am dehydrated. If your relative is in Houston, I have a freezer full of milk she is welcome to! lol


            I started my DD with solids at around 7 months and didn&#39;t do the mush thing. Mush teaches babies to swallow before chewing and that seems dangerous to me. Her favorite meal is short ribs (bone in) in the crockpot or even on the grill. I buy them fatty so she gets lots of good stuff. It is so cute to watch her eat meat. She gets so excited when she sees it. I should upload a video on youtube so you can see. It is really funny. At first, she just sucked the juice out of the meat. I would cut it into big chunks so she couldn&#39;t stuff it into her mouth in one piece. I also feed her veggies in large chunks or chip like pieces that I&#39;ve steamed soft so she can chew them with her gums. She loves carrots, sweet potatoes, broccoli, asparagus and avocado. Some consider avocado the perfect first food. Small sips of water when eating help. I never give juice. If she is no longer nursing, she will need water to avoid constipation. Beef broth would be good too.


            Personally, I would stay away from formula totally and if she can nurse at all - even once a day before bed or upon waking - that would be good.


            For dairy products, I would totally skip milk, but use greek yogurt - full fat. I give my DD shredded cheese that I shred myself to avoid starches. I would also use egg yolks, etc. Butter on everything.


            My DD self feeds and always has. When I give her greek yogurt, I blend some frozen berries into it and it is very thick. She likes to feed herself. I don&#39;t do it often because it is a huge mess, but fun for her.


            You&#39;ve done the research so you know what is in the stuff. Perhaps you should show her the research and urge her to try using whole foods. She can give infant vitamin supps if she feels she is missing something, but I don&#39;t think they would be necessary.


            I never did cereals with the kids (again, the whole "swallow before chew" thing) but she can give sticky white rice or white potatoes if she she feels the need to give those carbs. Let the baby do the feeding. I would just avoid gluten and casein at all costs. My DS has a dairy allergy and my DD1 (she&#39;s 3) has celiacs, so I keep a gluten and somewhat casein free house. I don&#39;t worry so much about casein in the house since there is not a cc issue like with gluten.


            Good luck to her! She&#39;s lucky to have you in her life.

            Comment


            • #21
              1



              TxRain, just wanted to say, Hats off to you for your generous offer! We indeed are communal tribe here.

              Comment


              • #22
                1



                We started our daughter on goat milk at 12 months. She&#39;s now 14 months old and does half breast half goat milk. We started her on solids at 6 months. Sweet potatoes, avocado, pears, butternut squash, green beans, carrots, egg yolks and dark meat chicken are her regular foods. We&#39;ll give her some shrimp and salmon when we have it.


                Going to introduce her to goat milk yogurt next.


                All vitamins and minerals are important, but at this stage definitely make sure the baby gets enough iron, which will be tested for at 12 months.

                Comment


                • #23
                  1



                  SerialSinner can I be a bit nosey and ask why your relative can&#39;t breastfeed any more? Wouldn&#39;t want your relative to have to stop unnecessarily.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    1



                    Jeff... I don&#39;t think anyone is asking you to "buy" that a person can&#39;t do something they weren&#39;t meant to do... I mean, can you "buy" that anyone is meant to get cancer? Or that immune systems just start attacking their own body? This kind of proclamation is similar to those that women get when they go to the doctor complaining of severe cramps. It&#39;s been in their heads up until maybe what 30 years ago? It may be that she physically can&#39;t do this for a reason that will take longer to correct than her baby has to wait.


                    It could easily by that this mother must work full time and doesn&#39;t have reasonable time, space, storage to pump and bring her milk home... although there are laws that protect a woman&#39;s right to this.. and if this is the case, perhaps she needs help securing help to do this. I just met a nanny that reported that she watched a child almost 24/7 and her mom fed ex&#39;d breast milk on ice whenever she traveled. (part of me wonders if she&#39;s ever around for that child... and if they suffer from that but at least have great nutrition)


                    It could be that the mother has developed breast cancer (80% of which develops in the milk ducts first), and will no longer have breasts to nurse...


                    It could be that she has an illness that she must treat in order to function or survive, and be there for her child in the future, and the medication is not conducive to breast feeding or the proper development of a child...


                    There are SOOOOOOO many reasons that a mother can not or SHOULD NOT legitimately nurse her child. It&#39;s not always just a social stigma that prevents women from breast feeding.


                    But it is a CHOICE to just assume that a person is not doing the best they can for their child... and sling judgment around. So, I don&#39;t "buy" that you can&#39;t wrap your evolved brain around the reality of this individuals situation!


                    Furthermore, in a primitive environment a baby could easily just die from this situation. And this can even happen in a tribal arena where the nutrition is severely inadequate... Even IF mom can nurse. Just because a woman can nurse does not mean that it&#39;s full of all the nutrient that is desired. Plenty of women breastfeed while on horrific diets themselves. Fake sugars etc... I know that CW thinking is frowned upon. But many things that a child would have died from in primitive times are prevented today. And I would argue that ANY FOOD is better than NO FOOD! One just has to get creative to do their best.


                    Serial...at 10 months... although not perhaps ideal, your relative should be able to work with a dietitian and pedi to work on other forms/sources of nutrition. The ideas that other moms have offered are awesome. I have some friends that make almond milk for their children, not babies, (not sure if that covers all the necessary nutrient), and if the baby can handle any sort of thickness, I would look to avocados. They have so much awesome nutrition. They could be thinned down to a chosen liquid.


                    Regardless, it&#39;s totally reasonable to start solids at 12 months.


                    Also, is this concern your relatives concern as well? Although many here would consider formula a less than desirable option, they are quite valid options to keeping a baby fed. Wet nurses are not quite the norm anymore. But I do know that many people use another&#39;s milk. I would want to know exactly what that person ingests and that they test clear of communicable diseases... but that is a valid option. I would totally trust many of my family members, or a milk bank, but I&#39;d be really cautious with someone I don&#39;t know.


                    I&#39;m actually quite interested to hear of the solution she goes with... I know that I will run into other moms that are stressed over this need as well..


                    Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      1



                      @TxRain: You might very well be the epitome of the primal mother, congratulations. And thanks for the offer and all he advice. My relative still does not entirely buy the PB, but does agree with most of its main tenets. I guess that, with an unlimited amount of time and enough effort, she would be able to recreate an ideal infant nutritional regime without breast milk. I am not sure of her particular situation, so I can&#39;t judge her. I advised her to talk to her (CW-inclined) pediatrician about what it would take to not use formulas and see if it&#39;s feasible. We&#39;ll see.


                      @Buteo: as far as I know she just cannot breastfeed anymore. I am not aware of the details though. At this point I am trying to be constructive, regardless of how ideal the situation might be.


                      @Twinmama: All of my close family is Primal. My father is an MD and, after reading all the info I gave him, he immediately embraced the PB. The rest of my family followed and everyone is extremely happy and feeling great. So yes, my relative does have some strong influence from my side of the family, and she&#39;s a very smart girl and dedicated parent, so the situation is very good compared to most families. I am sure she&#39;ll explore the available options and take the one that is more aligned with her lifestyle/needs.


                      We should be aware of how lucky we are. Knowledge is power, we have an enormous advantage over the general population.


                      Thanks again for all the feedback, I&#39;ll keep you posted on how this goes. Cheers!

                      “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
                      "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
                      "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        1



                        SerialSinner, if she lives in the KC area, I&#39;ll be moving back there in a few weeks and would be happy to help out by donating any excess milk.


                        I&#39;m with the others here - the important thing is to keep the babies fed. In a tribal community the other mothers would have taken over the feeding if a particular mother couldn&#39;t. Nowadays we have to depend on formula instead.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          1



                          I would recommend Weston a Price&#39;s formula recipe.

                          http://www.westonaprice.org/Recipes-...y-Formula.html

                          When my littlest one was weaned (I ran out of milk at about 4 months for some reason) I bought a formula called Holle which my local supermarket stocked. Its not perfect but it beats the pants off the &#39;popular&#39; ones.

                          http://www.holle.com.au/index.html I was very happy with it.

                          Good luck!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Thanks for the advice cottchick, and Kam, thanks a lot for the offer!
                            “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
                            "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
                            "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X