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My total cholesterol went from 146 to 217 in 4 months!

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
    Looks like Kathy's not the only one who should listen to the Dayspring interview. This couldn't hurt, either: Chris Kresser - Episode 151
    So you think there is such as thing as healthy - bad LDL which carries cholesterol that the body needs in every cell?

    WOW no offence but tried reading that podcast and just well awful. Like, you know, it is just so, how do I put well, like this because I need to bust your chops....'cause it is like wow....
    No data, no studies, just I'm a valley-girl.

    From what I may have been able to gleen from from their non sourced valley talk is high ldl may be a problem but...
    ,
    It does not match some of the research I have read, posts in Griffs Primer, posts that Mark has made etc...but hey pary on dude.

    And even trying to get through the Valley girl speak ..at least half of what he is trying to say is what I am saying then he like I donno know...it is like...so groddy to the max
    Last edited by Dirlot; 10-11-2012, 09:31 PM.
    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
    PS
    Don't forget to play!

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    • #47
      I don't know what the hell you're on, and I don't like to appeal to authority like this, but I find myself more inclined to listen to the opinions of a lipidologist or a solid clinician and scientist about the state of the research on heart disease risk than you.

      Maybe you, Dayspring and Kresser should get together so you can explain to them what the research truly shows.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
        I don't know what the hell you're on, and I don't like to appeal to authority like this, but I find myself more inclined to listen to the opinions of a lipidologist or a solid clinician and scientist about the state of the research on heart disease risk than you.

        Maybe you, Dayspring and Kresser should get together so you can explain to them what the research truly shows.
        You pointed like, you know a god awful like podcast and I responded in kind.

        So you think the body produces LDL is a bad thing, something the body needs to deliver cholesterol to. Because the reality is every cell in the body needs cholesterol. That fluffy LDL the best carrier that the the body has is bad?

        Please show a readable link that shows all ldl is bad which you seem to be implying.

        PS
        In case you missed it like I am so picking up on the like vibe of the like podcast....like
        Last edited by Dirlot; 10-11-2012, 09:48 PM.
        Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
        PS
        Don't forget to play!

        Comment


        • #49
          I'm not implying all cholesterol is bad. I'm merely pointing out that Dayspring and Kresser not only have access to plenty of research you don't, they also have the knowledge and expertise to declare with more authority that the research seems to show an excessive amount of LDL particles in the blood increases the risk of atherosclerosis no matter the size.

          That runs counter to your popular theory about large fluffy LDL bouncing around happily in the blood like beach balls while small LDL go tear-assing around epithelial tissue like Sonic the Hedgehog.

          I don't have links to the research, but like I said, I'm more inclined to believe them than you, despite your supposedly exhaustive research on the subject.

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          • #50
            I never claimed exhaustive research.
            I have not found a study (and it appears nether have you) that support their claims. There are plenty of studies that show with high HDL and low triglicerides you LDL is big an fluffy and things are looking good.
            My overall numbers are fantastic by CW and Primal bench marks. From what I have read I am on the right path. I would love to see alternative studies but that pod cast was not it!
            Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
            PS
            Don't forget to play!

            Comment


            • #51
              So you're saying the lipidologist is lying about the state of the research on cholesterol and lipoproteins because he doesn't throw around study titles for the lay public to go look up on Pubmed? You say there's plenty of research supporting large LDL particles as protective. Apparently there's also research indicating that's the kind of LDL people with familial hypercholesterolemia have, and they are absolutely not protected from atherosclerosis. Their blood is swimming with fluffy LDL particles, and it's all fine and good until it kills them.

              I don't have a reference for that, unfortunately, so I guess it isn't true.
              Last edited by Timthetaco; 10-11-2012, 10:22 PM.

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              • #52
                I've wondered about familial hypercholesterolemia and how that fits into the whole picture. To be honest I don't bother much with lipid panels. I just eat a moderate fat/moderate carb clean diet within caloric balance and get regular exercise and sun exposure. I'm sure the science on blood fats and cardiovascular disease is still in it's infancy and is a lot more complicated than we all realize. Their seems to be a lot of bias when it comes to what people believe are the most important aspects.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                  I've wondered about familial hypercholesterolemia and how that fits into the whole picture. To be honest I don't bother much with lipid panels. I just eat a moderate fat/moderate carb clean diet within caloric balance and get regular exercise and sun exposure. I'm sure the science on blood fats and cardiovascular disease is still in it's infancy and is a lot more complicated than we all realize. Their seems to be a lot of bias when it comes to what people believe are the most important aspects.
                  Lipid panels tend not to give the whole picture anyway. I think as long as you engage in healthy living, there's no need to worry about your cholesterol level. I mean, if you eat like crap, maybe taking regular tabs on it is a bit more important...
                  "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by impala454 View Post
                    Were you fasting for this quick test at work? I wouldn't put a lot of emphasis on some health fair test at work. I get a TC number every time I donate blood (every 8 weeks) and it has been all over the place. Here's my past two years worth, with me going primal in May 2011:
                    4/21/2011 167
                    6/16/2011 122
                    8/18/2011 161
                    10/19/2011 160
                    12/20/2011 162
                    2/15/2012 209
                    4/19/2012 174
                    8/16/2012 163
                    Thank you very much for posting your numbers. I didn't realize just how much they can bounce around. That makes me feel better. Cheers!
                    My primal journal

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I hadn't seen the U chart. It is interesting that my TC is now right in the sweet spot for minimizing all-cause mortality (and that my low TC was in the high range for all-cause mortality).

                      One of the posters early in the thread mentioned that my testosterone has probably gone up. Although I haven't had it tested (before or after), I am certain that it has.

                      The bottom line is that I feel fantastic, and I'm not going to change what I'm doing. I feel healthier than I have in many years, I've lost almost 60 pounds, I have loads more energy, and I feel like I'm reversing the clock and getting younger (well, I was prematurely aged at my previous weight, activity level, and overall health, so now I'm getting back to normal).
                      My primal journal

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                        So you're saying the lipidologist is lying about the state of the research on cholesterol and lipoproteins because he doesn't throw around study titles for the lay public to go look up on Pubmed? You say there's plenty of research supporting large LDL particles as protective. Apparently there's also research indicating that's the kind of LDL people with familial hypercholesterolemia have, and they are absolutely not protected from atherosclerosis. Their blood is swimming with fluffy LDL particles, and it's all fine and good until it kills them.
                        I don't have a reference for that, unfortunately, so I guess it isn't true.
                        There are a lot lipologists that say a lot of things look at all the CW wisdom that says eat whole grains to improve your cholesterol numbers, myself and others have seen plenty of research to show that is not the case. I am not going to take one podcast (that was very hard to read with all the "like" in it and treat it as gospel.

                        Even reading through the bullet points on the page you can see that many of the points he is making are some that I am making too....lol triglicerides etc.

                        So you are saying the research is there showing big fluffy LDL is the way to go!
                        It seems you are saying that since someone with a genetic disorder that can't regulate their cholesterol (probably with other things going on) means we should all be scared?
                        Last edited by Dirlot; 10-12-2012, 07:07 AM.
                        Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                        PS
                        Don't forget to play!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          No, I'm saying that you've already made up your mind on the issue and don't truly care about the state of the research. We don't know if it ends at "Fluffy LDL is good, enjoy the bacon!" All those CW experts aren't up on the research, either, or they wouldn't be parroting old dogma the way you're parroting the newer dogma. Right now we have what appear to be two solid scientists who do have access to the literature and have read it and are saying that at the moment, it seems like LDL-P is a better predictor of risk than particle size. Three, in fact. Chris Masterjohn is on the record saying particle size should be put on the back burner for now.

                          The point with FH is simply that those people supposedly have the non-atherogenic, paleo-approved fluffy LDL in their blood in enormous quantities, and they're still at risk for atherosclerosis. Feel free to try to make the case that a TC of 250 is safer than 800, but regardless of the particle size, they have too much damn cholesterol that they're unable to clear from their arteries, which leads to atherosclerosis.

                          You're unwilling to accept that researchers might have been wrong about the particle size issue--and I'm open minded in that regard--and my best guess is it's because you're probably pattern A. If you believe that's the final word on heart disease risk, then you would have no reason to worry about any other markers, like LDL-P.

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                          • #58
                            Most of the lipologists seem to worry more about trig than LDL by the way.
                            Young self-caring Paleo-eater from France.
                            (So please forgive the strange way I tend to express myself in your beautiful language )

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                              No, I'm saying that you've already made up your mind on the issue and don't truly care about the state of the research. We don't know if it ends at "Fluffy LDL is good, enjoy the bacon!" All those CW experts aren't up on the research, either, or they wouldn't be parroting old dogma the way you're parroting the newer dogma. Right now we have what appear to be two solid scientists who do have access to the literature and have read it and are saying that at the moment, it seems like LDL-P is a better predictor of risk than particle size. Three, in fact. Chris Masterjohn is on the record saying particle size should be put on the back burner for now.

                              The point with FH is simply that those people supposedly have the non-atherogenic, paleo-approved fluffy LDL in their blood in enormous quantities, and they're still at risk for atherosclerosis. Feel free to try to make the case that a TC of 250 is safer than 800, but regardless of the particle size, they have too much damn cholesterol that they're unable to clear from their arteries, which leads to atherosclerosis.

                              You're unwilling to accept that researchers might have been wrong about the particle size issue--and I'm open minded in that regard--and my best guess is it's because you're probably pattern A. If you believe that's the final word on heart disease risk, then you would have no reason to worry about any other markers, like LDL-P.
                              I don't believe any one marker is the final word and as Daydreamer points out trig are very important as are the ratios. As science progresses there will be even more markers I am sure. Just because they say there are other things going on does not mean low trig patterns and good ratios are not important to look at as you seem to be saying - heck even your docs say we need to aim for low trigs which promotes big fluffy LDL
                              Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                              PS
                              Don't forget to play!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I have many many disastrous experiences with conventional "pysicians".
                                I have hypopituitarism with an important deficiency in many hormonal levels, testosterone, thyroid, cortisol, IGF-1, insulin, and have problems with SHBG and aromatization of testosterone to estradiol, and all that conventional doctors have done is leaving me in unbearable physical and mental suffering.

                                I have to do most of the things that leads me to feeling a bit better on my own and I'm only fucking 19.
                                And then they try to make me believe I'm crazy, I'm depressed, I'm anorexic (because I don't eat "like everyone else"), and then everything that's still wrong in my life is psychic.
                                When I red tons of scientific texts, books, testimonials on patients forum, and that I understand my condition more than they ever would try to.

                                So keep your "reknown lipologists" studies, and treat them as they are : suppositions. And very often, wrong and easy suppositions.

                                EDIT : Just a quick add, before going Primal I had low overall cholesterol as I didn't eat saturated fats at all (in fact eating 100 g of fats, but from polyunsaturated fats, mainly almonds, for months, made my testosterone deficiency MUCH WORSE), I had borderline high trig and borderline low HDL.
                                Now my TC is 227, yet my trig are 44 and my HDL is 130+
                                Last edited by Daydreamer; 10-12-2012, 08:10 AM.
                                Young self-caring Paleo-eater from France.
                                (So please forgive the strange way I tend to express myself in your beautiful language )

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