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New to the diet and read Taubes "Why We Get Fat" am I getting this right?

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  • New to the diet and read Taubes "Why We Get Fat" am I getting this right?

    I love reading about nutritional science so what Taubes offers in the book was fascinating to me but I can't help but think much of what he presents in this book and "good Calories Bad Calories" is very one sided and only used to support his view.

    I am very curious if people truly buy his argument that you can eat almost unlimited calories from fat and still lose weight/fat despite the absence of exercise. From my own experience using nutritional calculators and such I've determined my net maintence calories to be around 2100 a day. If I go above that for a few days I notice weight gain if i go below that for awhile i lose. This is irrelevant of whether those cals come mostly from fat or carbs or a combo of both all while keeping my protein at a constant 130gs or so a day.

    So to the main question did i just not give high fat its due and should stick it out longer to see pounds come off while eating above what i have targeted as my maintenance?

  • #2
    He may be right about the unlimited calories from fat. I haven't been willing to test that theory myself. I try to keep my intake at least to seemingly reasonable levels. Especially when you consider protein, glucogenesis, ect., that goes along with all that meat at some point.

    That aside, while you may be able to lose weight without exercise and while eating a ton of fat (IF he is correct), you still won't reach your full potential. Exercise would still probably boost your energy levels, make you feel better about yourself, and boost your immunity. Weightloss is not the only reason one should exercise.
    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

    Comment


    • #3
      I tend to think eating fat is self-regulating. I could (and used to frequently!) eat 5-10 bowls of rice and never feel full. But after 2 eggs in coconut oil, I'm good. No part of me wants any more food for a few hours. I think that's why it works as a weight-loss strategy; you learn to stop when full. I haven't read Taubes, but to me, being primal is about eating when hungry and stopping when full. People say, "Oh, I couldn't do that, I can't be trusted, I can't tell when I'm full." This, IMO, is something that happens with carbs but NOT fats. Admittedly, there are times when I down half a large bar of dark chocolate in one sitting, but then I won't be very hungry the next day, and it all evens out. Avoiding carbs makes staying slim much, much easier.

      EDIT: When I say carbs, I mostly mean grains/processed carbs. I do not and will not ever worry about carbs from vegetables or fruits. I tend to like 2-3 servings of fruit a day and tons of veggies, but they don't trigger binges the ways grains do/did.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by candy corn View Post
        I love reading about nutritional science so what Taubes offers in the book was fascinating to me but I can't help but think much of what he presents in this book and "good Calories Bad Calories" is very one sided and only used to support his view.

        I am very curious if people truly buy his argument that you can eat almost unlimited calories from fat and still lose weight/fat despite the absence of exercise. From my own experience using nutritional calculators and such I've determined my net maintence calories to be around 2100 a day. If I go above that for a few days I notice weight gain if i go below that for awhile i lose. This is irrelevant of whether those cals come mostly from fat or carbs or a combo of both all while keeping my protein at a constant 130gs or so a day.

        So to the main question did i just not give high fat its due and should stick it out longer to see pounds come off while eating above what i have targeted as my maintenance?
        Does he actually say "unlimited calories"? Because I have never read anyone who said unlimited or to stuff your face as much as possible. The best thing you can do is calculate the minimum protein requirements you need, the carbohydrate target you want to reach (if any) and then cut your calories from fat so that your body is forced to use its own stores. If you don't cut the fat, your body doesn't care one bit whether the fat it uses is from the food you eat or your body fat and it will use the fat from food you eat first.
        The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.Low-carb and calories The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.
        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

        Comment


        • #5
          this is nonsense, he suggests you can control weight and eat all you want with no exercise because of carbohydrate restriction. look at all the obese low carb dieters who do this and are still obese. well you a hundred pounds, that's great! what about the other 300 you have left to go? this is why people hit the wall on the Atkins diet. marathon runners are a contradiction to this as well. I was thinking about trying marathoning out and the diet recommended was 65-75% of calories from carbohydrate. how are all these marathoners so lean then? because of exercise of course! calories absolutely count! Dr. Greg Ellis covers this book in some of his videos and gives it a pretty good bashing
          Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
          Before and after pics
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
          Primal Sucess Story
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
          Primal Journal
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BennettC View Post
            this is nonsense, he suggests you can control weight and eat all you want with no exercise because of carbohydrate restriction. look at all the obese low carb dieters who do this and are still obese. well you a hundred pounds, that's great! what about the other 300 you have left to go? this is why people hit the wall on the Atkins diet. marathon runners are a contradiction to this as well. I was thinking about trying marathoning out and the diet recommended was 65-75% of calories from carbohydrate. how are all these marathoners so lean then? because of exercise of course! calories absolutely count! Dr. Greg Ellis covers this book in some of his videos and gives it a pretty good bashing
            If you really want to try marathoning, do it low carb. A lot of ultramarathoners use low carb as their secret weapon for winning races.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
              I tend to think eating fat is self-regulating. I could (and used to frequently!) eat 5-10 bowls of rice and never feel full. But after 2 eggs in coconut oil, I'm good. No part of me wants any more food for a few hours. I think that's why it works as a weight-loss strategy; you learn to stop when full. I haven't read Taubes, but to me, being primal is about eating when hungry and stopping when full. People say, "Oh, I couldn't do that, I can't be trusted, I can't tell when I'm full." This, IMO, is something that happens with carbs but NOT fats. Admittedly, there are times when I down half a large bar of dark chocolate in one sitting, but then I won't be very hungry the next day, and it all evens out. Avoiding carbs makes staying slim much, much easier.

              EDIT: When I say carbs, I mostly mean grains/processed carbs. I do not and will not ever worry about carbs from vegetables or fruits. I tend to like 2-3 servings of fruit a day and tons of veggies, but they don't trigger binges the ways grains do/did.
              Definitely this. It's a really simple to see in your own life, anecdotally.

              I eat a donut for breakfast. I am looking for a snack 2 hours later and absolutely ravenous by lunch.

              I eat 3 pieces of bacon and 3 eggs scrambled in the bacon fat with a tiny sprinkle of cheddar at 9 AM. I am mildly hungry by 2 PM (my lunch break) but usually not actually needing food until dinner at 7 PM.
              yay!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                If you really want to try marathoning, do it low carb. A lot of ultramarathoners use low carb as their secret weapon for winning races.
                I was considering it as theres a lot of 5ks going on in my area. I just don't think its for me. Whenever I run I get this really bad pain in my left foot that last for a while. I tried going for a run the other night and I was just, " I hate running lol." I do like to sprint, but I can't do it much because of my foot problem. I really just love to lift weights and walk. I was thinking of trying that Diatomaceous earth to see if it would help my foot.
                Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
                Before and after pics
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
                Primal Sucess Story
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
                Primal Journal
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                  If you don't cut the fat, your body doesn't care one bit whether the fat it uses is from the food you eat or your body fat and it will use the fat from food you eat first.
                  The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.Low-carb and calories The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.

                  omg. How many times have I seen that, and it not soak in. Gawd this is so confusing and frustrating. Eat more fat, don't eat more fat. Eat low carb but dont eat too much fat, so what's left? protein, but don't eat too much protein cause this that and the other thing. So fat doesnt make you fat but it doesnt let you burn fat either. ? So how do I figure out how much is too much fat? I keep my calories in range, my carbs usually 50 - 80, some days lower, but maybe it is the fats tripping me up? I lost not even 2 lbs in September. I experimented with the higher fats thing, and gained 4lbs I had to get off, but since then have had days of higher fats because I re-read somethings and thought I needed to buckle down on keeping the carbs low, which pushed the fat back up there on some days. uggh At this rate, of 1ish pound per month, it will only take me about 5-7 years to reach my goal

                  I did lose 3lbs this last week. Fats 70-108. Carbs 24-85 net. Protein 67-99

                  I think I get it figured out, and think okay dont over think it so much, and then I read something else. uggh
                  65lbs gone and counting!!

                  Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                    omg. How many times have I seen that, and it not soak in. Gawd this is so confusing and frustrating. Eat more fat, don't eat more fat. Eat low carb but dont eat too much fat, so what's left? protein, but don't eat too much protein cause this that and the other thing. So fat doesnt make you fat but it doesnt let you burn fat either. ? So how do I figure out how much is too much fat? I keep my calories in range, my carbs usually 50 - 80, some days lower, but maybe it is the fats tripping me up? I lost not even 2 lbs in September. I experimented with the higher fats thing, and gained 4lbs I had to get off, but since then have had days of higher fats because I re-read somethings and thought I needed to buckle down on keeping the carbs low, which pushed the fat back up there on some days. uggh At this rate, of 1ish pound per month, it will only take me about 5-7 years to reach my goal

                    I did lose 3lbs this last week. Fats 70-108. Carbs 24-85 net. Protein 67-99

                    I think I get it figured out, and think okay dont over think it so much, and then I read something else. uggh
                    Eating high fat will prepare the body to be used to utilizing fat for energy. Once your body is acclimated to that, then you can continue to eat basically the same ratios in your new diet, but at reduced overall calorie intake and the deficit energy will come from body fat stores. The deficit of calories you need (or even WANT to achieve) will be based on your maintenance level and your weightloss goals.
                    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      yal my calories are usually from 1200 - 1300. Last week I tried to bump them up, so that put me at 1400 - 1500. I am thinking that is a good range. Seems like if I go less than 1400, I just don't lose as much, regardless of the fat/protein/carbs. Which seems to be the way it was all summer. But fasting came easy and natural, I am not as hungry, but on a 24 hour fast day, I only get about 1000 calories. So I am positive I am always at a deficit. But the macros are just so confusing.
                      Last edited by gopintos; 10-01-2012, 01:26 PM.
                      65lbs gone and counting!!

                      Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To answer the original question, his theory isn't true. I don't know if it was the same story in WWGF, but in GCBC he based the theory around G3P and insulin being the primary factors needed to store fat, so if you cut out the glucose and lowered insulin, you would be virtually impervious to fat storage. It's not true.

                        There's no reason to eat above your maintenance unless you want to gain weight.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No, you can't gorge on fat (as in overeat) and stay thin. The idea of eating more fat us that it helps tremendously with satiety and is self-regulating as others have said. People who join paleo to eat pork bellies til their own bellies burst and expect to get svelte will be deeply disappointed.
                          F 28/5'4/100 lbs

                          "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

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                          • #14
                            I haven't read the book, but I'm pretty sure that he's just trying to say that you don't need to count calories to lose weight by cutting out the carbs and you can eat until you feel full. He has a Physics background, so he fully understands the Laws of Thermodynamics and how they relate to the human anatomy (cals in vs. cal out).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                              yal my calories are usually from 1200 - 1300. Last week I tried to bump them up, so that put me at 1400 - 1500. I am thinking that is a good range. Seems like if I go less than 1400, I just don't lose as much, regardless of the fat/protein/carbs. Which seems to be the way it was all summer. But fasting came easy and natural, I am not as hungry, but on a 24 hour fast day, I only get about 1000 calories. So I am positive I am always at a deficit. But the macros are just so confusing.
                              Don't make it too hard on yourself. Just do what you've been doing and take a walk every day. If you already take a walk, take another one.

                              I think Volek and Phinney actually explain it the best. The protein remains constant in a range. The other macros vary. Reduce the carbs and you get nutritional ketosis. Reduce the fat or reduce both fat and carbs and you get weight loss. It's actually very simple.

                              Also, exercise helps.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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