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Conflicting perspectives on the Paleo Era diet

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    The study comes from Ethnographic Atlas by Dr. George P. Murdock...if you take issue with the data why don't you be more specific as to where it is incorrect based on your knowledge of the work that has been done? In the process maybe you can even come to some of your own conclusions. Are you upset that you have nothing to contribute, or that in the end nothing is absolutely certain? I thought that we all (everyone competent enough to discuss things logically that is) agreed that we were working within a framework of theories rather than set universal laws.

    Oh, and since the OP brought up Cordains ratios it should be noted that he got said ratios by studying this very Atlas.....so at least the information is relevant to the discussion at hand. The actual debate has been that Cordain actually under represents fat in his computations of hunted animals thus skewing his ratios higher in protein and lower in fat. Plus since small game is included under "gathered" vegetation maybe also overrepresented in the overall analysis.
    In your post you stated your own analysis and ratios. You didn't quote any Atlas.
    Last edited by KathyH; 09-30-2012, 01:58 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
      Exactly what the ratios are we may never know. It is safe to say early man would have eaten animal flesh in the form of game, fish and fowl from hunting or even scavenging. It is also safe to say early man would have eaten in season, fruits, berries, vegetables, tubers, nuts and any other ready to pick and foods.
      Milk is always an issue it is part of a herder culture for the most part, but has probably been in the food chain longer than mass consumption of grains. Even pre-herding if they killed a lactating animal, at least part of it would be milk rich and I can't seem them ignoring it. I have also heard those that are lactose intolerant can often tolerate raw milk so there is a lot going on there.
      So you say. It's just your assumption.
      I am curious what seasons you are talking about. Are you referring to the temperate climate or tropics?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by KathyH View Post
        "seems that", "on average", "46 out of 229 studied", blah blah blah, how is that post explaining anything? And from that you conclude that we acclimated to be meat heavy. Why not just say that we don't know. Bottom line, how is that anything other than anecdotal evidence?
        Erm, that post seems to be entirely factual. Neckhammer is not misleading you by overstating his assumptions and presenting his opinions as facts.

        Perhaps you would prefer to read posts where opinions are asserted as facts (hi Choco! ). Would that provide the concrete evidence you are looking for?
        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

        Griff's cholesterol primer
        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
        bloodorchid is always right

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        • #19
          I no longer worry about the studies so much. My own staggeringly good health lets me know I'm doing the right thing. I take into account that I am carbohydrate intolerant and impaired, that I'm female and old, and that I like endurance exercise more than grunting under barbells in the gym.
          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
            Erm, that post seems to be entirely factual. Neckhammer is not misleading you by overstating his assumptions and presenting his opinions as facts.

            Perhaps you would prefer to read posts where opinions are asserted as facts (hi Choco! ). Would that provide the concrete evidence you are looking for?
            He didn't say where he was deriving the data from in his post.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by KathyH View Post
              So you say. It's just your assumption.
              I am curious what seasons you are talking about. Are you referring to the temperate climate or tropics?
              Yup it is an assumption based on logic and common sense. There was no mass agriculture so if you have no ready supply of food you will eat anything you find - you would be daft not to.

              Funny you keep having this laughable attempts to poo-poo primal/paleo what is your theory then?

              Was there some grain co-op in the jungle? Trained monkeys driving combine harvesters in the African plains? Elephants tilling the soil with their tusks? Would love to hear how you think man ate.

              I am not talking about lines of latitude but seasons. Whether it is summer, winter, spring, autumn OR wet and dry I am talking about changes in climate that affect growing paterns.
              Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
              PS
              Don't forget to play!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
                Yup it is an assumption based on logic and common sense. There was no mass agriculture so if you have no ready supply of food you will eat anything you find - you would be daft not to.

                Funny you keep having this laughable attempts to poo-poo primal/paleo what is your theory then?

                Was there some grain co-op in the jungle? Trained monkeys driving combine harvesters in the African plains? Elephants tilling the soil with their tusks? Would love to hear how you think man ate.

                I am not talking about lines of latitude but seasons. Whether it is summer, winter, spring, autumn OR wet and dry I am talking about changes in climate that affect growing paterns.
                You clearly don't understand seasonalities in different climatic zones. You are formulating your assumptions on temperate climate which proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. Can you tell me in which season berries grow in Equatorial Guinea?
                How man ate, I have no idea, I wasn't there 10,000 years ago.
                Last edited by KathyH; 09-30-2012, 02:42 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by KathyH View Post
                  You clearly don't understand seasonalities in different climatic zones. You are formulating your assumptions on temperate climate which proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. Can you tell me in which season berries grow in Equatorial Guinea?
                  How man ate, I have no idea, I wasn't there 10,000 years ago.
                  Stop being a troll.

                  Do you have anything relevant to contribute?
                  Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                  Griff's cholesterol primer
                  5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                  Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                  TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                  bloodorchid is always right

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                    Stop being a troll.

                    Do you have anything relevant to contribute?
                    Stop calling people trolls when you have nothing to contribute.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      IMO (so don't ask for any links) Humans are opportunistic omnivores . If you can catch it and it's edible, in the pie hole it goes. I think clans that hung in certain areas/climates developed food preferences/tolerances. For example, my European ancestors were landlubbers~ I do better with lake fish than ocean fish. Wouldn't think it matters, but my joints ache if I eat too much salmon.

                      Foods aren't seasonal anymore. I think that also makes a difference~ My paleo ancestors didn't have strawberries in February or citrus ever. I can eat strawberries for a few weeks, then I start getting hives~ Hmmm, think there's a connection?

                      Maybe paleo/primal is not so rigid after all? Except for processed food, of course~

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by KathyH View Post
                        Stop calling people trolls when you have nothing to contribute.
                        If you had read the whole thread you would have seen that my very first post was an attempt at responding to the OP (rather than be trolled by you).

                        Anyway. Enough silliness. The Ignore list feature is there for a reason. User added.
                        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                        Griff's cholesterol primer
                        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                        bloodorchid is always right

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Carefully weigh three equal portions of African Savanah, Seaside Foraging & and mixed contemporary Hunter Gatherer season lightly with the Neolithic if it suits your palate then stir it up and feast.
                          Avoid temptation of post industrial foods as they have not killed enough people yet to be an evolutionary player in the Human Genome.
                          "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                            I no longer worry about the studies so much. My own staggeringly good health lets me know I'm doing the right thing. I take into account that I am carbohydrate intolerant and impaired, that I'm female and old, and that I like endurance exercise more than grunting under barbells in the gym.
                            You're not old!!! Quit saying that!
                            Sandra
                            *My obligatory intro

                            There are no cheat days. There are days when you eat primal and days you don't. As soon as you label a day a cheat day, you're on a diet. Don't be on a diet. ~~ Fernaldo

                            DAINTY CAN KISS MY PRIMAL BACKSIDE. ~~ Crabcakes

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                              If you had read the whole thread you would have seen that my very first post was an attempt at responding to the OP (rather than be trolled by you).

                              Anyway. Enough silliness. The Ignore list feature is there for a reason. User added.
                              If you had read the whole thread you would have seen that I never trolled YOU but you trolled me instead and now you are in tears. Great idea about the ignore button. No one ever asked you to reply to my posts but you just couldn't resist calling someone a troll just because you disagree.
                              Last edited by KathyH; 09-30-2012, 04:25 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by KathyH View Post
                                You clearly don't understand seasonalities in different climatic zones. You are formulating your assumptions on temperate climate which proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. Can you tell me in which season berries grow in Equatorial Guinea?
                                How man ate, I have no idea, I wasn't there 10,000 years ago.
                                OMG do you even read, what you write? A season is a season no matter if it is in a temperate or tropical zone - the meaning of season is very clear!?!

                                As to when berries grow in Equatorial Guinea I have no idea but I can tell you any hunter/gatherer would know - which is exactly the point I am making which is a hunter/gatherer would know his/her surroundings and would know how to live off the land to assume otherwise is absurd.

                                Actually 10,000 years is pretty easy as that was basically the start of agriculture and we have some pretty good records about that.

                                If you are as clueless as you say you are on how man ate before 10,000 lets make it simple for you, lets drop you an area of your choice fend for yourself, what are you going to eat?

                                PS are you going to contribute to this (and other) threads at all?
                                Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
                                PS
                                Don't forget to play!

                                Comment

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