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  • #31
    I'm lucky enough to have a coconut tree out back. I've just been eating the flesh as they fall, but I currently have two giant bags of it in the freezer because they've started falling at an incredible rate lately! Maybe i'll try to do some homemade coconut milk...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Catrin View Post
      This is an interesting topic & I am going to try this. I bought a couple packages of unsweetened coconut flakes from Whole Foods the other day. It is from Sri Lanka and the package clearly states there are no sulfites, the only ingredient listed is "Organic Coconut (sliced and dehydrated)". I just need some cheesecloth before my experiment. I also bought 1 can of the more expensive Thai Kitchen (premium/first pressing) coconut milk to compare with the less expensive Whole Foods 365 brand.
      Actually an old t-shirt works fine...
      "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
      "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
      "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Miscellangela View Post
        I'm lucky enough to have a coconut tree out back. I've just been eating the flesh as they fall, but I currently have two giant bags of it in the freezer because they've started falling at an incredible rate lately! Maybe i'll try to do some homemade coconut milk...
        Lucky duck...I just moved to wpb a few months ago, and I'm starting to think that the coconut trees in my backyard are sterile. Not a single green ball all summer. Meanwhile, I see all the neighbors trees ripening, dropping, rotting...

        I think I'm going to try this out sometime: Homemade Coconut Milk | Dairy Free Recipe for Coconut Milk I don't usually drink it straight, so if it ends up a bit chunky I'll be fine.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by SarahW View Post
          Lucky duck...I just moved to wpb a few months ago, and I'm starting to think that the coconut trees in my backyard are sterile. Not a single green ball all summer. Meanwhile, I see all the neighbors trees ripening, dropping, rotting...

          I think I'm going to try this out sometime: Homemade Coconut Milk | Dairy Free Recipe for Coconut Milk I don't usually drink it straight, so if it ends up a bit chunky I'll be fine.
          You know, plenty of people will give you the coconuts for free if you just take them away. Too many people just see them as yard waste.

          Your tree may not be an actual coconut palm - we have one out back that looks identical to the coconut tree, but it never bears coconuts. Of course, i know nothing about plants, so i may be completely wrong.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by SarahW View Post
            Lucky duck...I just moved to wpb a few months ago, and I'm starting to think that the coconut trees in my backyard are sterile. Not a single green ball all summer. Meanwhile, I see all the neighbors trees ripening, dropping, rotting...

            I think I'm going to try this out sometime: Homemade Coconut Milk | Dairy Free Recipe for Coconut Milk I don't usually drink it straight, so if it ends up a bit chunky I'll be fine.
            Ask your neighbors nicely if they mind you picking up some.
            Most people don't mind you doing that... if you ask.
            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Betorq View Post
              Trader Joe's now sells a heavy creme full fat coconut milk that is double the fat of anything else out there, in a can! Woo hoo! And for just $1.49 a pop...
              Betorq, I am new to this -- why is everyone else thinking this is poison in a can? Since you bought some, you must have thought it was a good idea!? What am I missing?
              (turns out I just bought a can too! And no, I don't have any coconut trees in my backyard, I wish!)

              INGREDIENTS:
              Coconut Extracted
              Sodium Carboxy Methyl Cellulose [read a bit about that one, seems a pretty safe thickening agent; non-toxic and poorly absorbed)
              Xantham Gum [another stabilizing/thickening agent]
              Water

              TIA!
              _______________________________________

              Adopted the Primal lifestyle on: August 9 2012.
              My sporadic journal entries are here.

              Results to date: I've lost (gained?) one belt hole!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by froggie View Post
                Betorq, I am new to this -- why is everyone else thinking this is poison in a can? Since you bought some, you must have thought it was a good idea!? What am I missing?
                (turns out I just bought a can too! And no, I don't have any coconut trees in my backyard, I wish!)
                INGREDIENTS:
                Coconut Extracted
                Sodium Carboxy Methyl Cellulose [read a bit about that one, seems a pretty safe thickening agent; non-toxic and poorly absorbed)
                Xantham Gum [another stabilizing/thickening agent]
                Water

                TIA!
                I consume a lot of coconut, not just from cans. I've been an advocate for this much maligned tree nut for many years, decades in fact. BPA is more of an issue for acidic foods like tomato sauce & meats in the can. I do make some concessions with my health, but 1-2 cans/week of coconut milk or creme is not going to impact my bottom line very much. Getting enough sleep, reducing daily work/traffic/life's stress, these impact my health more than a BPA scare that really isn't ''much'' of an issue. Some people on here eat CAFO meats often or even daily, I rarely do. Others indulge in peanut butter as their 20%, I rarely do anymore (though it's nice when I do ). So, it's all relative...

                Btw fwiw, that TJ's double creme was so so orgasmically rich, so sweet (naturally sweet), I about wet my pants today during my class, but that would not've looked good in front of my students, lol...
                Last edited by Betorq; 09-29-2012, 06:15 PM.
                "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                  Paranoia? No way...
                  Paranormal? ...ok I'll own up to that..

                  Instead of dismissal prior to investigation, how 'bout simple-to-find online citations, like this one:
                  Uncovering Hidden Truths (UHT) Milk « Locavore del Mundo


                  One of the UHT brands available in El Salvador.

                  UHT milk: depending on what country you live in, it’s either an everyday household item or as foreign as pineapples in Anchorage. UHT milk has received ultra high temperature processing in order to kill spores (such as botulism) that are, or could be, in milk, thereby increasing the shelf-life of milk to 6-9 months. Milk that has been UHT processed can sit on the shelf, unrefrigerated. Once opened, it does need to be refrigerated and consumed within a couple of weeks. UHT processing heats the milk to 135°C (275ºF) for 2 seconds, which also decreases some of the nutritional value of the milk, in addition to rendering the need for constant refrigeration unnecessary. This is a benefit for countries that are always warm, like here in El Salvador. I have bought the fresh milk and it lasts for about three days in my refrigerator. It’s hard to say why, but several of us here have come to a conclusion that the milk isn’t kept in refrigeration during the entire journey from milk processing facility to the store, and as it’s transferred from the refrigerated truck into the store, it sits on the sidewalk for several minutes too long (especially when it’s 27ºC/85ºF out!) UHT Milk & proud of it!

                  Why did UHT processing begin? Primarily to be able to better ship milk, and for people to be able to stock up on milk without needing a huge refrigerator. This is why UHT milk is so popular in Europe, where people tend to have smaller apartments and thus smaller refrigerators. The UHT milk is packaged in aseptic containers, nice and rectangular and compact. UHT milk is also popular, as I’ve said, in warmer climates, or in areas where electricity can be unstable or disrupted by natural disasters such as hurricanes. Proponents of UHT milk site several advantages of UHT milk: its regular shape allows for greater efficiency in transport, plus before the aseptic cartons are filled, they are flat, which means they take up less space, which is another shipping efficiency. All of these efficiencies mean that less greenhouse gas is emitted. (I would argue that if they whole idea of UHT milk is to be able to ship the milk further, these efficiencies would then be negated…) Direct Steam Injection: one of the two methods for heating the milk to ultra high temps. (From OzScientific.com)

                  It seems to me that the downsides of UHT milk are far more numerous. To begin with, the entire process of heating the milk to that temperature is quite energy-consumptive. Furthermore, the UHT process inactivates good milk enzymes, leads to losses of amino acids and vitamins, and alters the flavor of the milk. That altered flavor has been called “cabbagy.” Yummy. And then let’s talk about the packaging: that aseptic container, a blend of paper, plastic and aluminum that cannot be practically recycled as yet, and is just about as bad as Styrofoam in how quickly it breaks down in landfills. Add to that the fact that scientists have found that phthalates and other endocrine-disrupting chemicals leach from the package into the milk, and you realize UHT milk is giving you a whole lot more than extended shelf life. Code: B12 45 -- if the rumor is true, this milk has been reprocessed eight times.


                  Maybe you’re thinking that it’s no big deal – you sure as heck don’t want botulism in your milk, so UHT milk is safer. Safer? I suppose. It would also be safer to stay inside your house and never drive a car or cross a street or fly in a plane. But the health benefits of fresh milk outweigh the perceived safety of UHT milk. It is impossible to make yogurt or keffir out of UHT milk because the milk is dead. Milk is not supposed to be dead. There are supposed to be active enzymes in milk, enzymes that support microscopic life. Lastly, there are rumors that the UHT milk once expired (an unopened/unsold) can be returned to the processing facility, reprocessed, and put back out on the shelves. I tried to get down to the truth of the matter. I found several scientific articles that briefly mentioned the reprocessing of UHT milk, and one short rebuttal by Tetra-Pak Europe (who manufactures the containers in which a large share of Europes UHT milk is sold) saying that such things are nothing but lies. My understanding is that if you turn your UHT milk over, there is a code on the bottom. Here, the code starts either with an ‘A’ or a ‘B’ followed by four numbers, one through five (one of them will be missing). If the code is B1235, that means your milk has been reprocessed nine times. If the code is A2345 then your milk is on its first go-round (and last, since you’ve bought it). Of course this seems a little more than kind of gross. But the technology is there. Of course, the technology exists to purify the effluent from sewage treatment facilities to meet safe drinking water standards, but that doesn’t mean we should do it, and it definitely doesn’t mean the general public will accept it. Milk reprocessing has been going on in China, and I’m sure it’s happening in other places, likely here in El Salvador too. But until I know for sure, I can still castigate UHT milk for the other, proven, milk atrocities.

                  When we get right down to it, the worst part about UHT milk is that it is the antithesis of the local farming movement. UHT milk guarantees your milk is not local, it guarantees you have no idea where the cows are living, or in what kind of existence. Buying fresh milk, the milk that always has been, and always should be refrigerated helps guarantee your milk is at least somewhat local. Buying from the farm itself is even better.
                  Um, I thought we were talking about coconut milk. I would drink water out of the gutter before drinking UHT processed milk but that has nothing to do with tetra packs being inherently safe or unsafe as a packaging material.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    Um, I thought we were talking about coconut milk. I would drink water out of the gutter before drinking UHT processed milk but that has nothing to do with tetra packs being inherently safe or unsafe as a packaging material.
                    I believe that coconut milk in the tetra packs are also UHT processed. Honestly, at this point i just dont care anymore. I drink 2 large cartons a week (1000ml) of Aroy-D coconut milk (in the tetra pack).

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by sandokan2112 View Post
                      I believe that coconut milk in the tetra packs are also UHT processed. Honestly, at this point i just dont care anymore. I drink 2 large cartons a week (1000ml) of Aroy-D coconut milk (in the tetra pack).
                      All tetra-pak foods are UHT processed, hence they are devoid of all enzymes, hence the heavy feelings & lethargy I experienced with my experiment oh so many years ago. UHT processing has, since the 1990s, just gotten a lot more common & a lot more efficient (worse or better depending on your perspective).

                      An introduction to commercial sterility - Tetra Pak
                      www.tetrapak.com/.../processing/.../IntroductiontoCommercial...Share
                      File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
                      “UHT treatment is achieved by a treatment: (i) involving a continuous flow of heat at a high temperature for a short time (not less than 135° C (275° F) in combination with a suitable holding time) such that there are no viable microorganisms or spores capable of growing in the treated product when kept in an aseptic container at ambient temperature, and (ii) sufficient to ensure that the products remain microbiologically stable after incubating for...”
                      (Ref: Commission Regulation (EC) No 1662/2006 (amending Regulation (EC) No 853/2004)).

                      Are vitamins destroyed while processing milk (UHT)? (EUFIC)
                      www.eufic.org/page/en/page/FAQ/.../vitamins-processing-milk...
                      Food Safety & Quality ... Is it is true that vitamins are not destroyed while processing milk (UHT)? Why is information about vitamins not included in the table of nutritional contents which appears on the side of the tetra pack? Spain. The pasteurisation process heats milk to 70 – 75 °C for 15 seconds, inactivating or killing all of the disease-producing microorganisms in milk while preserving most of the nutritional value of milk. The UHT process ensures total microbial and enzyme inactivation, because the milk is heated up to 150 °C for 5 seconds....

                      Common doesn't make something good, it just brings it into people's consciousness more. Like CW ie common person's diet or dietary advice or common person's health... Just because heart diseae, obesity and cancer are common, doesn't make them 'normal'. People I consult with/for often tell me, that being out of shape, overweight, having or getting cancer & heart disease is normal these days. I always point out it's common but is NOT and never will be normal.

                      Imo, anyone who has been eating clean, healthy organic foods for many years, and is sensitive to such things in their own bodies, & who is so inclined to experiment on themselves as I am/always have been, can easily re-inact such a 1 litre chug-a-lug (on an empty stomach). Start with fresh made coconut milk from a blender vs your tetra-pak coconut milk.

                      It's a bit extreme I know, a whole litre, two days in a row, but that's generally how tests go. I recommend doing the fresh made the 1st day, the UHT coconut milks the 2nd day. As if you do the opposite, it may skew the results. Or hell, do it that way, the UHT coco milk 1st, but wait a couple days in between & take notes.

                      I felt off all the next day til around lunch w/ the tetra-pak coco milk. But for sure, I'd be curious to hear of others' experiences & feedback. When I'm wrong, I generally promptly admit it (& I'm wrong often as I take chances, experiment & try new things often). But in this case, I'm pretty sure I'm right.
                      Last edited by Betorq; 09-30-2012, 06:23 AM.
                      "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                      "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                      "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by XGrains View Post
                        Should I always avoid the use of coconut milk drink or would it be ok to add to coffee and in smoothies? It's mostly 4.5g fat, 4 saturated, and 2 carbs per 8 ounces.
                        Are you avoiding dairy? I just use grass fed heavy whipping cream in my coffee. For smoothies, go the canned coconut milk route. It gives you a much richer consistency and taste.

                        The So Delicious or Silk brands in cartons have synthetic vitamins added (A and D; the D is D2; not D3)to them as well as some other not so great ingredients. I do use it but I'm making the switch to lite canned coconut milk (basically watered down) for the kids' pancakes. I always add a can of coconut milk (Thai Organic) to my rice in placed of some of the water.

                        I don't think you'll suffer to greatly if you use the milk drink occasionally, but try making the switch to canned and see what you think. Lite or regular.
                        sigpic
                        Age 48
                        Start date: 7-5-12
                        5'3"
                        121lbs
                        GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


                        "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
                        Henri Frederic Amiel

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                          All tetra-pak foods are UHT processed, hence they are devoid of all enzymes
                          True, but i thought that the canned version is also devoid of enzymes?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by sandokan2112 View Post
                            True, but i thought that the canned version is also devoid of enzymes?
                            Canned foods are not processed at the same high temps as UHT, though they are far far less than optimal, enzymatically. The contents will spoil sooner in the can than in the tetra-pak (hence the reason UHT was developed). It's why your really not supposed to eat canned foods that greatly exceed their expiration dates. People do this of course, and many/most are fine, but some small percentage of them end up sick or even in the hospital every year, if the contents went bad enough &/or their immune systems are weakened, like the elderly, ill or the infirm.

                            In order of health:
                            1) Eating whole organic fresh coconut flesh & drinking their waters from non-mono-cropped coco palm trees.
                            2) Eating whole organic fresh coconuts mono-cropped, harvested from healthy trees.
                            3) Making your own coconut milk from sources 1 or 2 above.
                            4) Buying your coconut milk from someone who makes it from 1 or 2 above also.
                            5) Making your own coco milk from organic flakes in your blender
                            6) Making your own coco milk from commercial coco flakes in your blender
                            7) Frozen
                            8) Canned, non-BPA is best
                            9) Canned, with BPA, though it's a lesser issue due to low acidic content of canned coconut milks
                            10) Tetra-paks, dead last (...pun intended)
                            Last edited by Betorq; 09-30-2012, 06:39 AM.
                            "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                            "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                            "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

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                            • #44
                              IMO tetra-pak foods are a waste of money and far from anything like the fresh version. If somethings been heat treated, it may not have lost all its value, but its been messed with for sure. I think anything that's been on a shelf for a long time and especially something in plastic is prolly useless. I think canning is a whole different subject though. Now the goats milk I drank yesterday was still warm it was so fresh, that's nutritious. Freshest is always bestest.
                              Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
                              Before and after pics
                              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Miscellangela View Post
                                I'm lucky enough to have a coconut tree out back. I've just been eating the flesh as they fall, but I currently have two giant bags of it in the freezer because they've started falling at an incredible rate lately! Maybe i'll try to do some homemade coconut milk...
                                That sounds like Heaven.
                                sigpic
                                Age 48
                                Start date: 7-5-12
                                5'3"
                                121lbs
                                GOAL: to live to be a healthy and active 100


                                "In health there is freedom. Health is the first of all liberties."
                                Henri Frederic Amiel

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