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How do antinutrients protect grains?

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  • How do antinutrients protect grains?

    I can't figure this out. OK, so grains like wheat don't want to be eaten, so they have antinutrients. If they actually don't want to be eaten, why don't they have poisons? It seems like the antinutrients they defend themselves with can have effects that could take decades to "take down" the wheat's predator. For antinutrients to have an actual detrimental effect that would discourage further eating of wheat seems like a plan that requires thousands of years to play out until the wheat-eater's species has succumbed to degenerative diseases to the point of not being able to reproduce anymore. Only then will the wheat have "won."

    I can understand that maybe the antinutrients exist for some other reason and coincidentally affect us badly, but I can't get the idea that they exist because the grain doesn't want to be eaten straight in my mind.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Greenbean View Post
    It seems like the antinutrients they defend themselves with can have effects that could take decades to "take down" the wheat's predator. For antinutrients to have an actual detrimental effect that would discourage further eating of wheat seems like a plan that requires thousands of years to play out until the wheat-eater's species has succumbed to degenerative diseases to the point of not being able to reproduce anymore. Only then will the wheat have "won."
    I might misunderstand what you are saying here, but isn't that what is happening now? The grain is winning, and we are losing?
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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    • #3
      Yes, but nature seems to work much more quickly than that. Like having plants that are poisonous. Why isn't wheat simply poisonous? I am finding this difficult to articulate.

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      • #4
        It's not that they don't want to EVER be eaten as thats pretty much how most plants reproduce. They want to be eaten WHOLE so that they can seed and sprout and reproduce somewhere else (through animals fecal matter). They don't want to be ground to a fine powder, cooked, and then eaten so over time they are fighting back. Of course who would want to eat wheat in it's whole form? Not to mention I think it is actually really poisonous to humans. Someone who understands it a little better can tell you more but I had to chime in because to me it makes total sense. All I know is when I was younger I could eat bread, noodles, you name it with not a care in the world, now my body says............uh no...aint gonna happen So I don't eat any grains or any legumes as PB makes total sense to me.
        F/37yr/5' 5"
        SW: 154 March 2011
        CW: 140 July to Oct 2011
        PB: 145 gained 5lbs in first 4 months March to July 2012
        With a combo of PB and IF-ing 5 days a week (1 x 1200 calorie meal per day) I have lost 15 lbs PB/IF = 130 lbs July 2012 to current
        GW: 120
        Ultimate Goals ar to be: Happy/ Fit/ Energetic/ Feel great/ Balanced/ cure my thyroid and adrenals

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mom5booklover View Post
          All I know is when I was younger I could eat bread, noodles, you name it with not a care in the world, now my body says............uh no...aint gonna happen
          Me too. Major bloating and discomfort.
          Female, age 51, 5' 9"
          SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

          Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
          2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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          • #6
            I think I read somewhere that the anti-nutrients were involved in preventing the seed from sprouting too early, i.e. when the right conditions arise, the anti-nutrients are removed by some process and the nutrients are used by the seed to sprout. I could be way off the mark here though

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            • #7
              Wheat will make you very sick if you try to eat in raw off the stalk. We manage to make it edible by drying, grinding, fermenting, sprouting, baking, and all the other processing we do to it.

              If something needs that much processing just to be edible at all, kinda makes you think that it is not a good idea to eat it in the first place.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                Wheat will make you very sick if you try to eat in raw off the stalk. We manage to make it edible by drying, grinding, fermenting, sprouting, baking, and all the other processing we do to it.

                If something needs that much processing just to be edible at all, kinda makes you think that it is not a good idea to eat it in the first place.
                damnit where is the like button!
                Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
                Before and after pics
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65846.html
                Primal Sucess Story
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65400.html
                Primal Journal
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post955444

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                • #9
                  Thank you all for your help. Paleobird, ok, that makes total sense. What you said got me straightened me out. That's a good way to judge foods, by the amount of processing they require in order to be edible.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Greenbean View Post
                    Thank you all for your help. Paleobird, ok, that makes total sense. What you said got me straightened me out. That's a good way to judge foods, by the amount of processing they require in order to be edible.
                    Yes, this is the ultimate test when you are considering , "Is <x food> Primal or not?" Ask yourself the question, "Could I eat this straight up raw, right off the tree, vine, ground, whatever?" Even meat and fish and eggs are perfectly edible raw. That doesn't mean you have to eat them that way. Indeed there are some health benefits to cooking some foods in that it makes the nutrients more bio-avaliable. But you could eat a string bean raw, or sushi, or steak tartare. These are Primal foods.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                      Yes, this is the ultimate test when you are considering , "Is <x food> Primal or not?" Ask yourself the question, "Could I eat this straight up raw, right off the tree, vine, ground, whatever?" Even meat and fish and eggs are perfectly edible raw. That doesn't mean you have to eat them that way. Indeed there are some health benefits to cooking some foods in that it makes the nutrients more bio-avaliable. But you could eat a string bean raw, or sushi, or steak tartare. These are Primal foods.
                      I agree with the general thrust of what you are saying, but I think that 'primal' needs to cover cooked foods as well. Modern humans didn't arise until after the discovery of cooking (both meat and tubers).
                      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                      Griff's cholesterol primer
                      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                      bloodorchid is always right

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                        I agree with the general thrust of what you are saying, but I think that 'primal' needs to cover cooked foods as well. Modern humans didn't arise until after the discovery of cooking (both meat and tubers).
                        That's why I wrote the part I wrote about cooking making nutrients more bio-available. The, "Could I eat this raw?" test is just a way to determine Primal from non primal foods. Tubers are edible raw, not particularly tasty but edible. I am in no way shape or form advocating raw foodism. Blech, no!!

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                        • #13
                          Wheat was not protecting itself from humans, until 10,000 years ago we only used wheat grasses as cover while stalking prey, they were tall & clumpy, maybe it had evolved to poison insects with gluten, I don't know.
                          Antinutrients are basically just toxins, their primary purpose as I understand is for the growth and germination of the seed when conditions are right, the fact that they don't agree with us may just be incidental.
                          Amazing how self centered we are as a species, everything around us must somehow be related to our being, well it isn't, nature just does what it does most of the time it has nothing to do with us one way or another.
                          "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                          • #14
                            Hey, wheat can be lethal. Every time I eat it I get this whole brain fog and start stumbling around (no motor control) which would make me really vulnerable to predation.
                            If modern society didn't exist and I somehow ended up eating bread (even though it likely wouldn't exist either...), well, I'd be wolf meat.
                            In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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                            • #15
                              Where do you get the idea that grains need to KILL the things that eat them?

                              It's not about killing, it's just about preventing from being digested. So that when whatever eats them poops, the seeds have a nice fertilizer.

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