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What about dairy and cheese?

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  • What about dairy and cheese?

    Robb Wolf has dairy on his "no-no" list, but Mark doesn't.

    Do I have that right?

    I've eliminated all the grains and legumes since I started two weeks ago.

    But I'm still putting about 2 TBSP of half-and-half in my morning coffee.

    Is this OK . . . and what about cheese? I've been skipping it, but I'm wondering . . . what's the skinny on dairy?

  • #2
    The Definitive Guide to Dairy | Mark's Daily Apple
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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    • #3
      Thanks, Joanie.

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      • #4
        There are two problems with dairy: lactose (a carbohydrate) and casein (a protein). If you are intolerent to them you should avoid the dairy products which have them.

        Here's my breakdown:
        Ghee (none of either)
        Butter (small amounts of both casein and lactose)
        Cheese (small amounts of lactose, contains casein)
        Everything else (contains both protein and casein)
        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

        Griff's cholesterol primer
        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
        bloodorchid is always right

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        • #5
          While I could go the rest of my life never drinking a glass of milk (and sadly, actually went years without butter), I love cheese. I would have found a way to rationalize and make it primal even if it wasn't in primal limbo. Cheese is a fermented food after all. I wouldn't eat those blocks of rubbery stuff or any cheese that ends in "z," but those nice gooey stinky cheeses from goats, sheep, and even cows - oh yeah. I give myself a cheese day every other week (at least). Big cheese day. Like that's all I eat that day.

          What was the question?
          "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

          B*tch-lite

          Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

          Comment


          • #6
            If you don't have dairy issues, have at it, but stick to full fat (raw is best if it's available to you or non-homogonized if raw isn't available). I use only organic when it comes to dairy. 18 or 35% creams in my coffee, full-fat sour cream, cheese, butter, etc... I have dairy daily. I don't have issues with it and absolutely love it. If you suspect that you might, cut it out for a bit and see if you feel better.

            Cheers.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
              While I could go the rest of my life never drinking a glass of milk (and sadly, actually went years without butter), I love cheese. I would have found a way to rationalize and make it primal even if it wasn't in primal limbo. Cheese is a fermented food after all. I wouldn't eat those blocks of rubbery stuff or any cheese that ends in "z," but those nice gooey stinky cheeses from goats, sheep, and even cows - oh yeah. I give myself a cheese day every other week (at least). Big cheese day. Like that's all I eat that day.

              What was the question?
              I haven't drunk milk since I was a kid.

              Cheese is the big one for me. I'm not lactose intolerant (that I know of). I also put just enough half and half in my coffee to turn it from black to dark brown. I suppose I could try some organic heavy cream. Or Irish butter, which I'd like to try also.

              I've been mostly paleo for about two weeks. After seeing a post about the 21-day challenge, I decided I would eliminate beer and cheese for the 21-days (starting yesterday 9-18-12). These are my main paleo (primal--I assume these terms are interchangeable?) weaknesses, especially my 1-2 IPAs with dinner.

              I have occasional access to raw goat's milk, which I enjoy. But, at $5 a quart, it certainly won't be a regular part of my diet. In addition to the taste, drinking raw milk for me is a statement of my personal sovereignty.

              Thanks for the responses!

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              • #8
                Rob W and Mark don't really advocate it, but if you drink milk. Make sure it's raw. Paleo Doctors - Chris Kressler and Cate Shannahan are strong proponents of raw milk. Again, if you can tolerate it, it can be very good for you. Luckily, I live in western Mass I get raw milk for only 5 bucks per gallon.

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                • #9
                  From what I can tell, paleo = animals, fish, veg, limited fruit and nuts. Primal = paleo + dairy if you can tolerate it + other lifestyle benefits (fitness, stress reduction, sleep).

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                  • #10
                    Within the Primal plan, it seems to be a personal choice. If you tolerate it and want it, you can probably do fine with it. Raw milk from a grass-fed cow is obviously the best choice. The last time I drank straight milk, that's where I got it. I don't drink straight milk from the grocery store, but I do still use cream, butter, and cheese. I feel so much better just from the changes I have already made, I don't feel the need to eliminate it, even though there's a possibility that would help me get rid of this last little bit of stubborn belly fat. But I would feel sad and deprived without cream, butter, cheese and yogurt, so I choose to keep it in my diet. This lifestyle isn't sustainable if you can't enjoy yourself.

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                    • #11
                      Dairy is quite N=1. I'd remove it in the beginning for up to 30 days to see how you do without it....then consider reintroducing with cream and butter first.

                      I never have overt issues with dairy, but I do feel just a tad better without it. Same with starchy carbs in my case. Gotta give everything a test.

                      Robb Wolf did a show (or was it an article....) with Mark and when it came round to dairy Robb was basically like yeah, so I guess you can consider me that Paleo guy that eats Primal. Obviously dairy (high fat types) were on his personal list in limited quantitiy.

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                      • #12
                        I seem to be mildly lactose intolerant so I stay away from milk and eat cheese very occasionally, which seems to work fine for me. Paleo is of the opinion that dairy is bad, and I've never really understood the logic there. Primal says its fine if you can tolerate it, but go for the full fat, ideally unpasteurised varieties.
                        http://lifemutt.blogspot.sg/ - Gaming, Food Reviews and Life in Singapore

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                        • #13
                          Oh, you said it so well:-)

                          I'm trying to avoid cheese while I lose some serious weight, but your idea is absolutely the best.

                          You should have been at our Whole Foods today. They had a taster of some cheese with ale and whole grain mustard. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven.

                          Using my somewhat limited self-control, I didn't buy any, but if you hear of a robbery at WF's around midnight tonight with only that cheese missing, you'll know who was there:-)

                          Yeah, if primal easily included cheese in the place of meat -- and if cheese didn't just maybe trigger my migraines, I'd be thin and have lost every bit of weight I wanted to. Cream and butter are great, but they are NOT cheese.

                          Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                          While I could go the rest of my life never drinking a glass of milk (and sadly, actually went years without butter), I love cheese. I would have found a way to rationalize and make it primal even if it wasn't in primal limbo. Cheese is a fermented food after all. I wouldn't eat those blocks of rubbery stuff or any cheese that ends in "z," but those nice gooey stinky cheeses from goats, sheep, and even cows - oh yeah. I give myself a cheese day every other week (at least). Big cheese day. Like that's all I eat that day.

                          What was the question?

                          Comment

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