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  • #46
    I stayed away from this thread because I thought it was just spam to direct traffic to that HD website. And it probably is. But it's been quite an entertaining read.

    I could fast one day a week back when I was in the weight loss mode. I can't do it anymore. The best I can do is consume a buttery coffee and push my breakfast forward to somewhere between 9:30am and 2pm. Or I can go for a strenuous hike without breakfast (but there's always at least some coffee with cream or butter) and have my first meal be lunch.

    No floaty, endorphin, spiritual bullshit involved in any of this. Back when I was able to fast one day a week, I ended the day feeling pretty damn hungry and freezing ass cold. Nowadays, pushing breakfast forward, I feel okay but eventually I eat because I am hungry.

    I hate all this fasting and floaty spiritual bullshit crap in regards to fasting. It sucks in the mentally weak and it's all bullshit. I lead Sierra Club hikes. They are open to the public. A mentally unstable individual who often shows up who is normally quite strong and tolerable had heard that fasting "cleanses the soul". So he attended my hike carrying a freaking pint of water and two cans of orange soda and an orange (I guess he mistook orange soda for juice or something, he's probably got a sub-80 IQ) and didn't bother to inform anyone until he's practically puking his guts out near the summit. I had to baby-sit his ass all the way up the mountain. All the rest of the hike participants had to give him their extra water. I ended the hike completely out of water having had to give him enough to keep him alive. I had to inform him that when people do a fast they normally sit and meditate, they don't go hiking in 90+ degree temperatures 3000 feet up a mountain and it was foolish of him to do it. His response was, oh wow, I can totally feel the difference, I understand everything about the universe now. Did you know that Russia has robots that look like real people? Oh criminy, jesus h. christ on a raft give me a break.

    So your "scientific" jargon is nothing but a bunch of dangerous bullshit that's going to get someone with sub-average intelligence into trouble. My answer to your original question, based on the trend of this conversation:
    "Should Women FAST?" No, nobody SHOULD fast.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

    Comment


    • #47
      I too, would like to know what this 'floaty, euphoric' stuff is all about. Considering that I have been skipping breakfast since 4th. grade (yes, I can remember that far back) and usually ate once a day (dinner) in high school, yet I've never felt anything other than empty (digestively) That includes the 10 day fast I did for my eczema. I've spoken to several people via forums, even one gal that did a 40 day fast, and none of them ever reported any out of the ordinary mental/physical sensations either. Something smells fishy here.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Betorq View Post
        I will not make much more comment, as I obviously am not qualified as a man to duke it out, much less even to enter into the ring here. So I will just follow, absorb & try to learn about the ladies from these exchanges on these & other lady-centric threads, from here on out.
        You're welcome anytime, Dimples.

        Originally posted by patski View Post
        I do NOT recommend fasting for anyone with Adrenal Fatigue. Unless you like being a cranky, weepy bitch.
        That is definitely another area that needs healing first.

        Originally posted by Leida View Post
        I feel cheated. I have never experienced joy when fasting. Or enlightenment. I felt anxious, hungry, depressed and increasingly lethargic. I get huge highs from aerobic activities (my runner's high is so high I use it for recovery after a lifting session to be able to function for a few hours before collapsing). But fasting is nothing until I feel the need to eat, and then it is exhausting. I experience high once I have eaten.
        Not feeling joyful is just being a normal person instead of a dramatic Diva. Feeling depressed may be a sign that fasting is something you should wait a while to tackle also. Like what Omni said about when it comes naturally, not forced, that is how it should be.

        Originally posted by gopintos View Post
        Anyways, it hasn't been any kind of emotional or spiritual or sensual experience for me either. But maybe that is because my purpose was for weight loss. Maybe if I was doing it just because my body felt like it, it might be different. I am just not there yet. I can usually fast just fine, but I am very mindful of the clock and can't wait for it to be over.
        Yeah, floaty magical love chemicals.

        Originally posted by honestboy640 View Post
        I don't know about others but, In my concept fasting is good for health. In my country usually women use to take fasting.
        Exactly. It is healthy and it has a long history in many cultures.

        Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
        I like fasting. I liked it when I was younger. So, that covers both pre and post menopausal for me. Aside from science, and going just on personal observation, the one meal (or one meal plus light snack) a day model keeps me alert and active, and I'm leaner when I follow it. The only thing that decreases my libido is tragedy. Orgasms are like apples - you should have one a day.

        The emotional component to fasting is feeling in control. I like that feeling also. There's a time of day when I eat. That's it. I don't have to plan or deal with it the whole rest of the day, except to pull something out of the freezer first thing in the morning.

        As a note, I hated the grazing model. I rejected three square meals over 25 years ago, and when the whole five or six small meals was proposed I thought it was one of the most stupid things I'd ever heard.
        I have naturally gone toward the one meal plan as well. With maybe a light snack in the afternoon. I don't really think of "fasting" in terms of anything less than 24 hours. When people say they fast every day, as in they skip breakfast and have BP coffee instead, that's nice but not really fasting in my mind.

        Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
        I stayed away from this thread because I thought it was just spam to direct traffic to that HD website. And it probably is. But it's been quite an entertaining read.

        I could fast one day a week back when I was in the weight loss mode. I can't do it anymore. The best I can do is consume a buttery coffee and push my breakfast forward to somewhere between 9:30am and 2pm. Or I can go for a strenuous hike without breakfast (but there's always at least some coffee with cream or butter) and have my first meal be lunch.

        No floaty, endorphin, spiritual bullshit involved in any of this. Back when I was able to fast one day a week, I ended the day feeling pretty damn hungry and freezing ass cold. Nowadays, pushing breakfast forward, I feel okay but eventually I eat because I am hungry.

        I hate all this fasting and floaty spiritual bullshit crap in regards to fasting. It sucks in the mentally weak and it's all bullshit. I lead Sierra Club hikes. They are open to the public. A mentally unstable individual who often shows up who is normally quite strong and tolerable had heard that fasting "cleanses the soul". So he attended my hike carrying a freaking pint of water and two cans of orange soda and an orange (I guess he mistook orange soda for juice or something, he's probably got a sub-80 IQ) and didn't bother to inform anyone until he's practically puking his guts out near the summit. I had to baby-sit his ass all the way up the mountain. All the rest of the hike participants had to give him their extra water. I ended the hike completely out of water having had to give him enough to keep him alive. I had to inform him that when people do a fast they normally sit and meditate, they don't go hiking in 90+ degree temperatures 3000 feet up a mountain and it was foolish of him to do it. His response was, oh wow, I can totally feel the difference, I understand everything about the universe now. Did you know that Russia has robots that look like real people? Oh criminy, jesus h. christ on a raft give me a break.

        So your "scientific" jargon is nothing but a bunch of dangerous bullshit that's going to get someone with sub-average intelligence into trouble. My answer to your original question, based on the trend of this conversation:
        "Should Women FAST?" No, nobody SHOULD fast.
        I totally agree with you about the pseudo spiritual BS. Food is fuel and having all the emotional trappings around the whole process I think is unhealthy.

        As to you thinking no one should fast, I would say everyone should speak for themselves on this. Or maybe you meant nobody "should" fast in the imperative, as in someone telling you "thou shalt". It is an individual decision and is not right for everyone. It was definitely not right for that guy on your hike.

        Originally posted by Nady View Post
        I too, would like to know what this 'floaty, euphoric' stuff is all about. Considering that I have been skipping breakfast since 4th. grade (yes, I can remember that far back) and usually ate once a day (dinner) in high school, yet I've never felt anything other than empty (digestively) That includes the 10 day fast I did for my eczema. I've spoken to several people via forums, even one gal that did a 40 day fast, and none of them ever reported any out of the ordinary mental/physical sensations either. Something smells fishy here.
        What can you expect from people who call themselves "Divas"?
        Last edited by Paleobird; 09-25-2012, 11:43 AM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
          Yeah, floaty magical love chemicals.
          When I do finally eat, it is almost orgasmic though, does that count? I said ALMOST. Or maybe it is the sex as the result of the bacon, I dont know.


          I know that I use to not watch Giada, cuz I never trusted a skinny chef. And she just enjoyed the bites she would take just too damn much. Now I can understand
          65lbs gone and counting!!

          Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by gopintos View Post
            When I do finally eat, it is almost orgasmic though, does that count? I said ALMOST. Or maybe it is the sex as the result of the bacon, I dont know.

            I know that I use to not watch Giada, cuz I never trusted a skinny chef. And she just enjoyed the bites she would take just too damn much. Now I can understand
            Just exactly what are you doing with the bacon grease? Enquiring minds want to know.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              Or maybe you meant nobody "should" fast in the imperative, as in someone telling you "thou shalt".
              That's exactly what I meant. Anybody MAY fast, but nobody SHOULD fast.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

              Comment


              • #52
                I don't really think of "fasting" in terms of anything less than 24 hours. When people say they fast every day, as in they skip breakfast and have BP coffee instead, that's nice but not really fasting in my mind.
                I might agree except that in the context of this thread, 14 hours was mentioned as a fasting period. And lots of people on this board consider 18 hours of no food to be IF. I just consider it doing that with which I'm comfortable. I also occasionally do 24 hour periods where I only consume ~450 calories in clear liquid form. I would guess that some water purists wouldn't consider that a fast.
                "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                B*tch-lite

                Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by JoanieL View Post
                  I might agree except that in the context of this thread, 14 hours was mentioned as a fasting period. And lots of people on this board consider 18 hours of no food to be IF. I just consider it doing that with which I'm comfortable. I also occasionally do 24 hour periods where I only consume ~450 calories in clear liquid form. I would guess that some water purists wouldn't consider that a fast.
                  Oh, yeah, every expert has their definition and they are all different. Different levels of "spiritually purity" I guess. (Do I need to put a rolleyes here? No.) You could have breakfast at nine and dinner at five and technically be IFing every day with a 16/8 "window". Or you could just be eating the way you feel like eating. But it sounds cooler to say you are IFing.

                  From the research that was dug up on Piscator's recent fasting Challenge thread, it seems like most of the real benefits of fasting are just starting to kick in in earnest at the 24 hour mark. Also the research seems to show that the benefits taper off after 48 hours with only marginal extra gains for each day beyond that.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Interesting posts, ladies. Please do keep sharing, so we can learn from each other. Now I will try to address some of the concerns raised by you.

                    First things first, the (hormone) endorphin high when fasting. It is fact that the body’s beta-endorphin reaction is accentuated during fasting, dieting and other stresses. There’s nothing spiritual or religious about this. It isn’t any news either. It’s very much Endocrinology 101.

                    There are numerous papers and medical books written on this. Now, I know Mark and fans like their “research studies”. There are loads of those too. Here’s a very basic one (easy to understand):
                    Plasma beta-endorphin during fasting in man. [Horm Res. 1990] - PubMed - NCBI

                    Beta-endorphin is higher during the early days of fasting. Beta-endorphin is produced by the pituitary gland and is reported to produce a more intense sense of well-being than any of the other endorphin types.

                    Endorphins alleviate pain and give pleasure by binding to opioid receptors located on neurons within the brain and spinal cord. Ultimately, this is part of the reason why starvation can become addicting and partly explains the biology behind Anorexia Nervosa – something that some of you referred to.

                    At the same time, overeaters and sugar/carb addicts eat to trigger endorphin release too, because when these are released they feel better. Thus, food addicts who try to control their weight by will-power and behaviour modification often are actually enabling the progression of their biochemical dependency – either by binging or by fasting.

                    When the sugar-sensitive person tries to stop using the sugar that evokes this wonderful beta-endorphin response, the receptors start screaming. This is called withdrawal. The person experiencing withdrawal may feel cranky, irritable, and out of sorts but never knows it was last night’s sugar binge creating the horrible feelings. Cravings loom large as the beta-endorphin receptors scream and relief is as close as carbs fix. The physical dependence on sugar to relieve the discomfort of withdrawal reinforces the need to use more and more. Here’s where the food/sugar addiction grows into a real problem.

                    I hope I covered some of the basics.

                    All the best,
                    Health Divas

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Health Divas View Post
                      Interesting posts, ladies. Please do keep sharing, so we can learn from each other. Now I will try to address some of the concerns raised by you.

                      First things first, the (hormone) endorphin high when fasting. It is fact that the body’s beta-endorphin reaction is accentuated during fasting, dieting and other stresses. There’s nothing spiritual or religious about this. It isn’t any news either. It’s very much Endocrinology 101.

                      There are numerous papers and medical books written on this. Now, I know Mark and fans like their “research studies”. There are loads of those too. Here’s a very basic one (easy to understand):
                      Plasma beta-endorphin during fasting in man. [Horm Res. 1990] - PubMed - NCBI

                      Beta-endorphin is higher during the early days of fasting. Beta-endorphin is produced by the pituitary gland and is reported to produce a more intense sense of well-being than any of the other endorphin types.

                      Endorphins alleviate pain and give pleasure by binding to opioid receptors located on neurons within the brain and spinal cord. Ultimately, this is part of the reason why starvation can become addicting and partly explains the biology behind Anorexia Nervosa – something that some of you referred to.

                      At the same time, overeaters and sugar/carb addicts eat to trigger endorphin release too, because when these are released they feel better. Thus, food addicts who try to control their weight by will-power and behaviour modification often are actually enabling the progression of their biochemical dependency – either by binging or by fasting.

                      When the sugar-sensitive person tries to stop using the sugar that evokes this wonderful beta-endorphin response, the receptors start screaming. This is called withdrawal. The person experiencing withdrawal may feel cranky, irritable, and out of sorts but never knows it was last night’s sugar binge creating the horrible feelings. Cravings loom large as the beta-endorphin receptors scream and relief is as close as carbs fix. The physical dependence on sugar to relieve the discomfort of withdrawal reinforces the need to use more and more. Here’s where the food/sugar addiction grows into a real problem.

                      I hope I covered some of the basics.

                      All the best,
                      Health Divas
                      I think you're over-analyzing this. The human body is adaptive. Eat, don't eat, it will survive, at least in the short term. Probably depends on how much fat you have in storage.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Just checked out your health divas forum, nice! I have been utilizing IF for several months to aid in weight loss and give my body time to repair damage through autophagy. What I really love about IF is the simplicity: no preparing meals, no cleaning up, no packing food to go to work or on a bike ride. It seems like a natural fit for me and I intend to keep doing it.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          OK, so we've transitioned from floaty, magical love chemicals to a lesson in Endocrinology 101 by Professor HD. Well at least we are talking some serious science here. This is progress.

                          So nice of you to include basic and "easy to understand" references for the undergrads, teach. But that study is about measurements taken between 5 and 10 days into a fast. That is starvation. And that is very much a body stressor. So, yes, in that situation, an endorphin rush is definitely going to happen.

                          But I don't think most people here are talking about ten day fasts. If one is well fat adapted, skipping a day or two of food is not that big of a deal for your body. There is no starvation, panic, stress, trauma, reaction going on so your whole argument is based on a faulty premise.

                          Now, I fully agree that mentally for many people the idea of skipping even one meal is enough to bring on a panic attack but that is not a physiological issue, it's psychological. I totally agree with you that people who are sugar and/or food addicts should not be trying fasting just yet if ever.

                          But thanks for coming by to plug your blog and "cover the basics" for us ignorant types here on MDA.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
                            +1

                            Intermittent fasting actually caused a shit ton of health problems for me, so while I think the scientific research behind it is pretty cool, and I really wanted to buy into it, it was a disaster for me.

                            Eating one huge meal per day triggered some of the most painful IBS flares of my life. Now, as a result, I have to keep my meals small, and space them out throughout the day.

                            While not due solely to IF, while IFing, my fatigue got substantially worse (though likely this was also largely due to being lowish carb for too many months). I discovered that on fasting days, my body responded to the extreme calorie reduction by basically shutting down operations. I would get cold in my extremities, and in my core, I would move around less and less until basically I couldn't even get myself off the couch.

                            IFing destroyed my sleep. I realized that my 40-48 hour fasts basically guaranteed to the worst sleep of my life.
                            I know that fasting does wonders for some folks, but for me it's one of the worst things I ever inflicted on myself.
                            ^^^ Big fat DITTO on that entire experience - today was it for me; I've never been so low on energy in my life (that I can remember, at least). My finger tips started turning white over the weekend; nice. Then I really went against the grain and had some goat yogurt and sprung back to life. Personally, I think it's time to revisit my diet and tweak it a bit. I'm trying to do the no fruit, no yogurt thing, but from past experience, this actually made everything better for me and that's when my unplanned weight and fat loss began. I didnít even realize I had weight to lose, until it started coming off naturally.

                            I wish I fit into the typical/common category, since it seems tried and true by so many other people, but Iím left to trust my body to define some of the opposite concepts as successful, for me.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by heatherdarbs View Post
                              I've never been so low on energy in my life (that I can remember, at least).

                              I wish I fit into the typical/common category, since it seems tried and true by so many other people, but I’m left to trust my body to define some of the opposite concepts as successful, for me.
                              If it isnt natural yet, I would say don't force it. It may not ever be natural for everyone. But I wouldnt completely rule it out either.

                              My first 24 fast was awful! Then it got better and better to the point of painless and almost standard now.

                              My first 48 hour was awful, even more awfuller (to further support the ignorant type haha) Anyways, it was horrible. The next one, not so bad. I expect those to get easier and easier as well.

                              The first time I tried to work out just before my 24 hours was up, I thought I was going to hurl.

                              I never would have EVER dreamed that I would IF, even if only skipping breakfast. Now, skipping breakfast is no big deal. Sometimes lunch is no big deal. And sometimes even supper is no big deal. I started doing it because, well because I wasnt hungry. Then I learned of the weight loss benefits. Now I am learning more and more about all the other benefits as well.

                              It really all is very fascinating.
                              65lbs gone and counting!!

                              Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by heatherdarbs View Post
                                ^^^ Big fat DITTO on that entire experience - today was it for me; I've never been so low on energy in my life (that I can remember, at least). My finger tips started turning white over the weekend; nice. Then I really went against the grain and had some goat yogurt and sprung back to life. Personally, I think it's time to revisit my diet and tweak it a bit. I'm trying to do the no fruit, no yogurt thing, but from past experience, this actually made everything better for me and that's when my unplanned weight and fat loss began. I didn’t even realize I had weight to lose, until it started coming off naturally.

                                I wish I fit into the typical/common category, since it seems tried and true by so many other people, but I’m left to trust my body to define some of the opposite concepts as successful, for me.
                                Hey Heather,

                                I tried to answer your PM but the system won't let me, says you are not allowed to receive PMs (?)

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