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  • #16
    Originally posted by PaleoCowgirl View Post
    I think YMMV when it comes to fasting -- what works for some might be disastrous for others. Here's a good article on negative impacts of fasting for women: How Intermittent Fasting Saved Me While Slowly Killing me | Civilized Caveman Cooking Creations
    PeleoCowgirl - you couldn't be more right. Some people are sympathetic dominant and others are parasympathetic dominant. It's usually the latter group that do NOT do well when fasting. Whereas the first group (Sympathetic) is metabolically adapted to live on less meals a day, or just one meal, or no food at all with no ill or negative effects. Each diva is different!

    However, there is something in common that ALL divas will experience when fasting... and that is a declining libido or lower sex drive. Whereas the opposite is for men. Theirs actually increases! Our gender differences when fasting are not properly addressed out there, except for a couple of Mark's blogs - READ HERE. That lack of information (both scientific and anecdotal) is one of the main reasons why we started the Health Divas Forum. For ALL divas out there to share the good, the bad, and the ugly. Boy, we (ladies) are a completely different species all together!

    Love,
    Health Divas

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by gopintos View Post
      This.

      I only accidentally started doing it, before I knew what it was, but it feels natural most days, however I read, and not sure where, that women of child bearing years (that still WANT to bear that is) should not fast. That is SO NOT me.... therefore I fast.

      So my vote for me would be yes, but that is JMO for myself.
      @ Gopintos - It is correct to say that, unfortunately, the hormonal changes experienced by a fasting diva will mean a slightly decreased fertility. Some divas will lose their period. But others will NOT... they are the exception!

      I know of an overweight diva who looked for a baby for 3 entire years... There was nothing wrong with her hubbie. Her Doctor told her you need to lose 5 kg (ca. 11 lbs) in order to conceive as she had an "inhospitable" environment for fertilization as well as a few cysts. When you have cysts your body needs a serious detox. The Doctor gave her a low calorie diet. Instead, she fasted for a week and lost all that weight in ONE go. A month later she learned she was pregnant! Her baby was a healthy big boy who is now 6 months old.

      Again, we are different. There are rules, but there are exceptions too! Weight could play a role in fertility too. Overweight people could be as nutrient-deficient as a food-deprived person... Food for thought!

      Love,
      Health Divas

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Health Divas View Post
        PeleoCowgirl - you couldn't be more right. Some people are sympathetic dominant and others are parasympathetic dominant. It's usually the latter group that do NOT do well when fasting. Whereas the first group (Sympathetic) is metabolically adapted to live on less meals a day, or just one meal, or no food at all with no ill or negative effects. Each diva is different!

        However, there is something in common that ALL divas will experience when fasting... and that is a declining libido or lower sex drive. Whereas the opposite is for men. Theirs actually increases! Our gender differences when fasting are not properly addressed out there, except for a couple of Mark's blogs - READ HERE. That lack of information (both scientific and anecdotal) is one of the main reasons why we started the Health Divas Forum. For ALL divas out there to share the good, the bad, and the ugly. Boy, we (ladies) are a completely different species all together!

        Love,
        Health Divas
        Really? Is that based on women of childbearing years or do you have data for others? I am post-menopausal and am feeling like a freaking cougar on daily IF plus occasional longer fasts.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by amdws1234 View Post
          I fast almost everyday. I don't want to eat if I am not hungry so that means 18 a day fast. Also exercise when fasting. No issues.

          If I do eat before exercise, I feel like total lethargic dog shite so I take breakfast days off.
          @amdws1234 - You are not the only one. I know of numerous divas, including myself, who can function perfectly well on 1 meal a day. But again, as you say, it should feel right for you, and not forced. For any diva reading this that has never done it, one meal a day should NOT become your target, but a natural consequence of your natural circadian rhythm. Again, reconnect your mind and body, be mindful, listen to your symptoms and reactions. Unfortunately there is a lot of experimenting we need to do, individually, until we hit the right keynotes!

          Love,
          Health Divas

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
            Really? Is that based on women of childbearing years or do you have data for others? I am post-menopausal and am feeling like a freaking cougar on daily IF plus occasional longer fasts.
            @Paleobird - fantastic to hear about your own experience! I am curious, do you experience true "sex drive" on your fasting days? Or could it be that you feel lighter, sexier, joyful, enlightened?

            Feeling lighter, "floaty", sexier, joyful and enlightened is something that most people will experience when undergoing long periods without food.

            I call it "The Magic of Fasting", the surge of endorphins - the "love" chemicals thousands of times stronger than heroin. The reason for this high we feel is that "traumas" of any kind (including fasting) trigger an automatic burst of soothing endorphins. Endorphins are meant to silence pain. You may know of people who felt no pain for hours after a terrible physical injury. But endorphins can do more than kill pain. They provide the sensation of pleasure too. Euphoria, joy, the "runners' high" (when runners have run past their pain threshold). So effectively, I like to call this the "fasters' high". At some point during our fast, we experience this surge of endorphins... and an even higher dose if we exercise on a fasted state.

            Some people find so much pleasure in this "fasting high" that love fasting regularly. In some cases this may actually motivate you to continue fasting for a longer period of time: yeah, bring on the next endorphin dose!

            The other extreme of this is an anorexic diva, unfortunately seriously addicted to this regular endorphin surge as a result of her severe calorie-restriction.

            Anyway, back to the point, even though most fasting divas will feel lighter and more joyful, that may not necessarily translate into "wanting" it... However, each one of us is different, thank goodness for that! And there is so much we are yet to learn about fasting. Stories like yours are what we want to hear in our Health Divas Forum. Do join us Peleobird.

            P.S. You don't look post-menopausal, gorgeous pic!

            Love,
            Health Divas
            Last edited by Health Divas; 09-20-2012, 01:48 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              So, here's the results of my version of the poll thus far:

              1. Yes, multi-day fasts are fine [ 3 ]
              2. Yes, anything up to 40 hours is fine[ 4 ]
              3. Yes, anything up to 20 hours is fine [ 5 ]
              4. Yes, anything up to 14 hours is fine [ 6 ]
              5. Yes, avoiding snacks between meals is fine (2-3 hour fasts) [ 2 ]
              6. No. Your body should constantly be digesting food while you are awake for energy [ 1 ]
              7. No. If you wake up in the night, have a snack to go back to sleep [ 0 ]
              This can be turned into the following results:
              Yes (95%) vs No (5%)

              And in terms of Cumulative totals:
              Yes, 14 hrs (86%)
              Yes, 20 hrs (57%)
              Yes, 40 hrs (33%)
              Yes, multi-day (33%)
              Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

              Griff's cholesterol primer
              5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
              Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
              TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
              bloodorchid is always right

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                Really? Is that based on women of childbearing years or do you have data for others? I am post-menopausal and am feeling like a freaking cougar on daily IF plus occasional longer fasts.
                Oh geez, PB - you were a pretty good role model before, but now I just might have to officially stalk you . Can I be you when I grow up, please?
                Started Feb 18 2011

                Tried basic primal and almost everything else in pursuit of IBS control, mood stability, and weight loss.

                Journalling here

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Health Divas View Post
                  and that is a declining libido or lower sex drive. Whereas the opposite is for men
                  Oh Lordy, Note to Self: Self, do not let DH fast... ever.

                  Originally posted by Health Divas View Post
                  you need to lose 5 kg (ca. 11 lbs) in order to conceive as she had an "inhospitable" environment for fertilization as well as a few cysts.
                  Oh yal, I can see that also, needing to lose weight first, and it was great that a short term period of fasting (as opposed to a long term lifestyle), that is awesome! There is another thread going on fasting and cysts also.

                  Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  Really? Is that based on women of childbearing years or do you have data for others? I am post-menopausal and am feeling like a freaking cougar on daily IF plus occasional longer fasts.
                  You go girl. <grrrrooowl> I am pre- still. And I am in the middle of the road. No more no less that I notice with regards to fasting, although I haven't really paid attention to that, but now I will. But I will agree with the statement that I feel sexier and more frisky just having lost the weight. And no, it's not the bacon either. (but probably doesnt hurt) I am just coming to a place of acceptance of myself and liking myself again, and DH is enjoying the benefits.
                  65lbs gone and counting!!

                  Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Health Divas View Post
                    @Paleobird - fantastic to hear about your own experience! I am curious, do you experience true "sex drive" on your fasting days? Or could it be that you feel lighter, sexier, joyful, enlightened?

                    Feeling lighter, "floaty", sexier, joyful and enlightened is something that most people will experience when undergoing long periods without food.

                    I call it "The Magic of Fasting", the surge of endorphins - the "love" chemicals thousands of times stronger than heroin. The reason for this high we feel is that "traumas" of any kind (including fasting) trigger an automatic burst of soothing endorphins. Endorphins are meant to silence pain. You may know of people who felt no pain for hours after a terrible physical injury. But endorphins can do more than kill pain. They provide the sensation of pleasure too. Euphoria, joy, the "runners' high" (when runners have run past their pain threshold). So effectively, I like to call this the "fasters' high". At some point during our fast, we experience this surge of endorphins... and an even higher dose if we exercise on a fasted state.

                    Some people find so much pleasure in this "fasting high" that love fasting regularly. In some cases this may actually motivate you to continue fasting for a longer period of time: yeah, bring on the next endorphin dose!

                    The other extreme of this is an anorexic diva, unfortunately seriously addicted to this regular endorphin surge as a result of her severe calorie-restriction.

                    Anyway, back to the point, even though most fasting divas will feel lighter and more joyful, that may not necessarily translate into "wanting" it... However, each one of us is different, thank goodness for that! And there is so much we are yet to learn about fasting. Stories like yours are what we want to hear in our Health Divas Forum. Do join us Peleobird.

                    P.S. You don't look post-menopausal, gorgeous pic!

                    Love,
                    Health Divas
                    I really think you are discounting the role of ketosis in causing the "fasting high" and focusing on endorphin surges instead as if fasting were something soooo traumatic to the body. Once the body is fat adapted, no longer in sugar burning mode, going into a fast is really not any big trauma. It's what our bodies were meant to do naturally. Store fat when there is excess food and burn fat in lean times.

                    And yeah, "true" sex drive is just fine here. Losing weight and fitting into a size 6 instead of my former 16s I'm sure is an aspect to this. I mean, let's face it, sex can be a lot more fun if you are not getting out of breath and your knees don't hurt. Just generally having good energy levels helps too.

                    Thanks for the compliment. 50 is the new 30 as they say.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I'm starting to think that 50 is the new 25, so long as a gal's ducks are in a row.

                      I think fasting is great. I've been fasting since I was a kid. I used to day-fast once a week (that is, ahve breakfast and dinner, and usually I didn't have breakfast because I hate eating in the morning. Makes my tummy hurt.

                      I don't really eat after 8/8:30 pm, and then I don't eat again until the next day at 11 or so. 14.5-15 hr daily fasts, and then I tend to eat two meals in that time -- a small one around 11 (two eggs and fruit plus tea), and then a massive one for dinner around 7/7:30. It takes me forever to eat this meal because it is big. Then I stay up for another 2 hrs or so (and sometimes do my "digestive yoga" because sometimes I get so hungry that I sort of gorge, even though calorically I'm still well within my normal numbers), and then go to sleep and get up around 7 am, and then do stuff for 5 hours before I eat. "Doing stuff" usually involves household chores, some work (seated), running around with the kid, doing yoga, and then getting to the office or where ever I have to be.

                      I tend to do a longer fast about once a month naturally. My husband calls it "reset" day. He knows when I'm in "reset" day because I'm bitch-on-wheels if he bothers me in any way shape or form. It's essentially a time when I do not want to talk, get out of bed, or be bothered. I like to stay in bed, drink hot water (sometimes with lemon or orange), read books, write things, cruise the internet and generally just not do anything at all. If I'm feeling super excited that day, I'll drink some salt water and have a good intestinal clear-out. I probably do that every other month or two. It's no bigs.

                      It's basically, like, if you ask me "hey, do you want more hot water?" I'm all like "WTF are you doing talking to me? Don't talk to me. I don't want to hear your scratchy annoying voice in my head. Shut up now. Or I kill you. Now back to reading blogs." But, it's all in the eyes.

                      I could probably be fine on a longer fast, but doing everything that I do, the whole thing just doesn't seem to sit right with me. consecutive day-fasting with clean eating works well, which effectively means just having one meal a day at dinner since I hate to force breakfast on myself.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        I really think you are discounting the role of ketosis in causing the "fasting high" and focusing on endorphin surges instead as if fasting were something soooo traumatic to the body. Once the body is fat adapted, no longer in sugar burning mode, going into a fast is really not any big trauma. It's what our bodies were meant to do naturally. Store fat when there is excess food and burn fat in lean times.

                        And yeah, "true" sex drive is just fine here. Losing weight and fitting into a size 6 instead of my former 16s I'm sure is an aspect to this. I mean, let's face it, sex can be a lot more fun if you are not getting out of breath and your knees don't hurt. Just generally having good energy levels helps too.

                        Thanks for the compliment. 50 is the new 30 as they say.
                        @Paleobird! Fat-adaption does not necessarily mean ketosis. Ketosis is ketosis. Fat-adaption describes the ability to burn both fat directly via beta-oxidation and glucose via glycolysis, while ketosis describes the use of fat-derived ketone bodies by tissues (like parts of the brain) that normally use glucose.

                        Feelings of any kind (eg anxiety, excitement, depression, the fasting high) are all hormone-caused chemical reactions. Ketosis can't cause a feeling of joy, hormones do. However, ketosis can set off the neurotransmitters and hormones responsible for that sense of well-being.

                        Fat adapted people are beneficiaries of GREATER surges of feel good chemicals (catecholamines and endorphins), that's why they FEEL better adapted.... They can undergo a LONGER period of physical food deprivation trauma - because they can't feel it! The feel good hormones silence the stress. Food would actually interrupt the flow of these feel good hormones. That's why eating breakfast can be so painful and depressing to so many people....

                        Undergoing hours or days without food is a form of stress. When fasting, you are being kept alive by your sympathetic system: stress (catabolic) hormones cortisol, glucagon and adrenaline (and other catecholamines) will kick in to keep you alive by breaking down molecules for energy.

                        A fat adapted body has a first in class trauma-adaptation. It doesn't mean it doesn't undergo the trauma. The opposite in fact. It can tolerate even MORE trauma than non-fat adapted bodies. It will feel LESS of the trauma. But have more of it. A fat adapted body can easily tolerate the stressors of both fasting plus exercise with no ill effects.

                        Fat adapted divas are the queens of trauma. Our first in class sympathetic adaptation, prime catabolism and greater surge of feel good chemicals make us the queens of trauma: we can experience more of it and still feel great!

                        Love,
                        Health Divas

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Health Divas View Post
                          make us the queens of trauma: we can experience more of it and still feel great!
                          We have a saying around these parts, goes something like too dumb to come in out of the rain.
                          65lbs gone and counting!!

                          Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Health Divas View Post
                            @Paleobird! Fat-adaption does not necessarily mean ketosis. Ketosis is ketosis. Fat-adaption describes the ability to burn both fat directly via beta-oxidation and glucose via glycolysis, while ketosis describes the use of fat-derived ketone bodies by tissues (like parts of the brain) that normally use glucose.

                            Feelings of any kind (eg anxiety, excitement, depression, the fasting high) are all hormone-caused chemical reactions. Ketosis can't cause a feeling of joy, hormones do. However, ketosis can set off the neurotransmitters and hormones responsible for that sense of well-being.

                            Fat adapted people are beneficiaries of GREATER surges of feel good chemicals (catecholamines and endorphins), that's why they FEEL better adapted.... They can undergo a LONGER period of physical food deprivation trauma - because they can't feel it! The feel good hormones silence the stress. Food would actually interrupt the flow of these feel good hormones. That's why eating breakfast can be so painful and depressing to so many people....

                            Undergoing hours or days without food is a form of stress. When fasting, you are being kept alive by your sympathetic system: stress (catabolic) hormones cortisol, glucagon and adrenaline (and other catecholamines) will kick in to keep you alive by breaking down molecules for energy.

                            A fat adapted body has a first in class trauma-adaptation. It doesn't mean it doesn't undergo the trauma. The opposite in fact. It can tolerate even MORE trauma than non-fat adapted bodies. It will feel LESS of the trauma. But have more of it. A fat adapted body can easily tolerate the stressors of both fasting plus exercise with no ill effects.

                            Fat adapted divas are the queens of trauma. Our first in class sympathetic adaptation, prime catabolism and greater surge of feel good chemicals make us the queens of trauma: we can experience more of it and still feel great!
                            I understand the difference between fat adaptation and ketosis. During a fast however you do go into ketosis and this in and of itself causes the focused, sharp and yes euphoric feeling. It is not due to endorphins that are there to silence the pain. There is no pain. There is no trauma. Why do you keep making up such dramatic silliness? When fat adapted, the body slips in and out of ketosis with no problem at all. It's a normal natural process.

                            Instead of queens of trauma you should call yourselves the queens of drama.
                            Last edited by Paleobird; 09-24-2012, 03:14 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                              I understand the difference between fat adaptation and ketosis. During a fast however you do go into ketosis and this in and of itself causes the focused, sharp and yes euphoric feeling. It is not due to endorphins that are there to silence the pain. There is no pain. There is no trauma. Why do you keep making up such dramatic silliness? When fat adapted, the body slips in and out of ketosis with no problem at all. It's a normal natural process.

                              Instead of queens of trauma you should call yourselves the queens of drama.
                              Thank you, Paleobird: 10 to the power of 10
                              ----------------------------------------
                              F, 48, 5'10"
                              Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
                              Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

                              Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                                I'm starting to think that 50 is the new 25, so long as a gal's ducks are in a row.

                                I think fasting is great. I've been fasting since I was a kid. I used to day-fast once a week (that is, ahve breakfast and dinner, and usually I didn't have breakfast because I hate eating in the morning. Makes my tummy hurt.

                                I don't really eat after 8/8:30 pm, and then I don't eat again until the next day at 11 or so. 14.5-15 hr daily fasts, and then I tend to eat two meals in that time -- a small one around 11 (two eggs and fruit plus tea), and then a massive one for dinner around 7/7:30. It takes me forever to eat this meal because it is big. Then I stay up for another 2 hrs or so (and sometimes do my "digestive yoga" because sometimes I get so hungry that I sort of gorge, even though calorically I'm still well within my normal numbers), and then go to sleep and get up around 7 am, and then do stuff for 5 hours before I eat. "Doing stuff" usually involves household chores, some work (seated), running around with the kid, doing yoga, and then getting to the office or where ever I have to be.

                                I tend to do a longer fast about once a month naturally. My husband calls it "reset" day. He knows when I'm in "reset" day because I'm bitch-on-wheels if he bothers me in any way shape or form. It's essentially a time when I do not want to talk, get out of bed, or be bothered. I like to stay in bed, drink hot water (sometimes with lemon or orange), read books, write things, cruise the internet and generally just not do anything at all. If I'm feeling super excited that day, I'll drink some salt water and have a good intestinal clear-out. I probably do that every other month or two. It's no bigs.

                                It's basically, like, if you ask me "hey, do you want more hot water?" I'm all like "WTF are you doing talking to me? Don't talk to me. I don't want to hear your scratchy annoying voice in my head. Shut up now. Or I kill you. Now back to reading blogs." But, it's all in the eyes.

                                I could probably be fine on a longer fast, but doing everything that I do, the whole thing just doesn't seem to sit right with me. consecutive day-fasting with clean eating works well, which effectively means just having one meal a day at dinner since I hate to force breakfast on myself.
                                I'm with you on the 2 meals a day plan. Biatchiness isn't tolerated in our home -- from either party...er else ---- there's the curb. Cheers/louisa
                                ----------------------------------------
                                F, 48, 5'10"
                                Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
                                Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

                                Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

                                Comment

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