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IBS despite primal, and I'm about to lose my mind!

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  • IBS despite primal, and I'm about to lose my mind!

    Unlike others, I seem to have developed IBS *after* going primal. !!!

    The short story:
    - Serious bloating issues for years, but didn't realize it till I lost a bunch a weight and could really see how my belly could go from perfectly flat to looking 6 months pregnant in a day. I know grains made this worse, but it did not go away when I went primal in Feb 2010.

    - August 2011, the serious cramps/runs started. It was rare, but always within an hour after a meal.
    - Dec 2011 - I noticed a correlation with dairy, & dropped it. (Also, I noticed that more often, I had stomach tenderness in the area of the gall bladder.)
    - Jan 2012 - I went from 95% to 100% primal 1/1/2012. Cramps/runs stopped, but the bloating didn't.
    - Feb 2012 - I dropped FodMAPS, eggs, & nightshades, but no improvement in bloating. I tried a week of just meat, fat, & ferments, no improvement. I did GAPS Intro (again, seems I'm perpetually doing GAPS), negligible, if any, change.
    - March 2012 - the cramps/runs started again. Got worse & worse till June. Sometimes it would happen at 1am, many hours after a meal.
    - June 2012 - SICK and TIRED of eating nothing but meat, fat, & non-starchy, non-FODMAPs veggies, & added some other fruits & veggies for a week, while lowering fat. Bloating went up, thyroid signs got much worse, but ... cramps/runs went away! I looked up IBS and found many people saying fat made it worse. Cut fats, except increased CO. Good for a few weeks, then ... cramps/runs came back. I get them even if I have a meal with nothing but lean meat. Happens even if I eat nothing but well-cooked meat, well-cooked veggies, CO, & broth. Still have near-constant pain near gall bladder, but RUQ ultrasound showed nothing.

    I NEED TO EAT SOMETHING! I need to quit writhing in pain after meals, too. What is going on?

    (BTW, home-fermented foods, broth, fCLO, high fat, 100% local/pastured/organic foods have been my way of life for 5 years now.)

    I appreciate ANY help here, including folks sharing whether or not fat plays a role in their IBS. I know CW is crazy against fat & I need the truth. I've read every thread I can find on here about IBS, but almost all is about how primal cleared it up. (I don't think primal caused this; I think it's a result of the decades of gut abuse prior to going primal.)
    5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
    Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
    Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
    Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
    ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

  • #2
    Not experienced, but this is what I've accumulated:
    -L-Glutamine (10-20,000 mg per day, start lower and increase, you'll get stomach pain if you take too much) can help heal the gut. I don't know if it would have any immediate effect, but if you've got damage, this could help.
    -Try something like grapefruit seed extract? It's doubtful you have Candidiasis after the way you've been eating, but if there's some kind of overgrowth or gut dysbiosis, that might help regulate (excess/pathogenic) bacteria levels so your fermented foods can actually have an effect.
    -Get your doctor to accept a stool sample to test for bacteria levels. Maybe you have something else going on. This should give them/you a decent starting point to see if your gut bacteria is okay or not, even if it doesn't show all of it (you'd have to biopsy to see more). They might not be able to tell you how to treat it, unless you see a naturopath, but lab results are generally helpful.
    Depression Lies

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    • #3
      Have you had your gallbladder tested further? Sometimes ultrasound can be normal but you may have 'sqeezability' issues. It's called an Ejection Fraction and the test is called a HIDA scan. It can test how strong the gallbladder can sqeeze/pump bile into the small intestine to help with digestion. I've seen it quite a few times where a patient will check out fine as far as RUQ ultrasound being negative and other symtoms being negative and then have a HIDA scan showing an EF of 20% - 30% (normal range is >50%).

      Might be worth a check.
      Some people just need a sympathetic pat... On the head... With a hammer.

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      • #4
        I'm starting to sound like a popular movie..."I see fungus..."

        Seriously, my doc is convinced it's everyone's issue, 90% of the time. You sound like me -- I could bloat on water. I was diagnosed with candida overgrowth, and thus far, I've found it accurate. Some medical docs won't acknowledge it exists, but a few do, including mine. Worth checking out. Hang in there, I KNOW how frustrating it is.
        The Sedition of Sisyphus: Go Find Another Rock

        Griff's Cholesterol Primer

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        • #5
          Thank you for the great thoughts so far. Seriously.

          Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
          -Get your doctor to accept a stool sample to test for bacteria levels. Maybe you have something else going on.
          Strangely enough, I had a complete stool analysis done last year and it showed no pathogenic bacterial overgrowth, no candida (and a blood test showed the same: no candida), no parasites, but severe fat malabsorption, vegetable malabsorption/maldigestion, & elevated levels of anti-gluten antibodies. (There was an imbalance between firmicutes/bacteriodetes, neither opportunistic, but apparently important as an adiposity index.)

          Originally posted by AuroraB View Post
          Sometimes ultrasound can be normal but you may have 'sqeezability' issues. It's called an Ejection Fraction and the test is called a HIDA scan. It can test how strong the gallbladder can sqeeze/pump bile into the small intestine to help with digestion. I've seen it quite a few times where a patient will check out fine as far as RUQ ultrasound being negative and other symtoms being negative and then have a HIDA scan showing an EF of 20% - 30% (normal range is >50%).
          Very interesting; I will look into that. I'm also suspecting the pituitary signal for the gall bladder to release bile may not be up to par. I already know the same is happening with the pituitary signal to my thyroid.

          Originally posted by ciavyn View Post
          Seriously, my doc is convinced it's everyone's issue, 90% of the time. You sound like me -- I could bloat on water. I was diagnosed with candida overgrowth, and thus far, I've found it accurate.
          I wish I wish I wish! Tested negative in stool and blood, but regardless, I've been eating anti-candida 99% of the time for the last three years bc I was convinced I had it. I went the whole 9 yards, including daily ACV/CO/garlic/oil of oregano, daily broth, daily homemade ferments, no sweets or carrots or starchy veggies or fruit or nuts for months and months. No improvement in bloat or cravings. *sigh*
          5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
          Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
          Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
          Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
          ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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          • #6
            Well I was going to suggest 2 tsp twice daily of ACV in 8 oz in water but it seems you've already tried that...hope you get it figured out very soon...sounds very miserable! Blessings and positive energy to you...

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            • #7
              I assume you are avoiding chocolate? That was becoming a trigger for me. I had a bout of IBS a few months back that baffled me...but my chocolate and overall caffeine intake were up and I got rid of those and things improved. Also, I cannot tolerate vinegar---might be the same with fermented foods. I do take probiotics -- Kyodophilus and Threelac -- which have always been beneficial for me.
              Check out my blog on nature and nurture!
              http://thewoodsygal.com/

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              • #8
                If your gluten antibodies were way up then gluten intolerance/celiac is likely an issue for you. You obviously aren't eating gluten, but is anyone else in the house? And have you gone through your kitchen to check for potential cross-contamination? Eliminated every possible source? This will mean replacing some of your cookware if you used it with gluten containing foods, making sure that if anyone in your house does eat gluten they use separate sponges to clean their dishes, etc . . . There's gobs of info online if you google it about how to be sure that you don't get glutened. Of course, it may well be dysbiosis issues as well, as they tend to accompany gluten problems, but making sure that you aren't accidentally getting gluten may well be a factor.
                Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                • #9
                  Oh, and as for the pain that feels like it's from your gall bladder, look up "hepatic flexure syndrome". I get splenic flexure syndrome (the other side) when I eat something that doesn't agree with me. What usually works for me is to lay on my side with the painful side facing down. Then massage the area, trying to get your fingers up under your ribs a bit. If it's a flexure syndrome problem this will move the gas along. You can also try a heating pad, which seems to soothe it for me.
                  Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks again, y'all. There hasn't been any gluten in our house in the last year, but it's possible I get a trace amount in some restaurant food once every three months or so. I've never been so sensitive to it, though, that it causes symptoms far and above anything else, or noticeable in an immediate sense.

                    I'll look into the flexure issue. I don't think it's gas, though. Even when I'm terribly bloated, I never pass gas or burp, which totally mystifies me. Even the intestinal pain isn't distension discomfort; it's labor-like waves of cramps. Literally, just like labor, just a different set of muscles. My body has decided it's time to evacuate and OUT it goes, stat!

                    I strongly dislike chocolate. Lost my woman card, yeah, I know.

                    I go through bouts of drinking a lot of green tea and then not, but notice no correlation. I consume no other caffeine.

                    I thought sparkling water might be related, so I downed a bunch to test it, and no reaction, so don't think that's doing it, either.

                    I'm so confused.

                    I wonder if the reactions may be much more delayed than I realize. Like, eating obviously triggers it within an hour, but is the fact that I'm reacting to that meal because of something my body couldn't tolerate a few days ago, rather than what is actually in that meal? Could be. And that confounds things so much.

                    But again, I went six months with not a speck of gluten, dairy, sugar, starch, or even so much as a berry, and still, the debilitating cramps & runs starting happening more and more as time went on.

                    I need a gut PI. Doctors sure haven't helped any. I'm glad to have some new leads to track down; thank you all for that. I welcome any more!
                    Last edited by MamaGrok; 09-18-2012, 10:00 AM.
                    5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                    Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                    Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                    Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                    ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do you use any lip balms or lotions that might have something in it? The waves of cramps sound a lot like what I get when I'm glutened. I wasn't as sensitive until I went GF and my guts started healing. The other thing you might want to look into is corn. I developed an intolerance when I went back on gluten for celiac testing. It tends to be even more prevalent than gluten in the production of a million things. I don't have a gut reaction to it, but an overall inflammatory one. You could be different. If you eat meat from the supermarket it could have corn in it if they inject it with liquids. It may also be specific proteins, such as beef or pork. You might try eliminating specific meats to see if you improve.
                      Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Great guess, but I don't use any personal care or cleaning products except coconut oil, baking soda, & apple cider vinegar. It's certainly interesting and informative to hear it being similar to how you react when glutened, though. I'm going to ponder what that could mean for me.

                        No corn or corn by-products at all, either, because I eat only whole meat & veggies from farmers I know. (but again, once in a rare while, eat in a restaurant, where, despite my best efforts, may get something with a by-product)

                        Once in a while (like 2-3x/year) I get fed up and just eat reasonable choices from what everyone else is eating, thinking maybe I'm just being too strict and need a more varied diet. I'm not talking wheat, milk, or sugar here, just the full spectrum of meat, fat, fruits, veggies, & eggs. But it all gets far, far worse instead.

                        I pray about three times a day that I don't have a beef or pork sensitivity, lol. I eat pastured/wild goat, lamb, rabbit, chicken, turkey, duck, goose, fish, shellfish, etc., but those two are my great loves!!!
                        5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                        Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                        Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                        Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                        ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Have you looked into histamine and mast cell involvement? I hate sounding like a broken record but this is what I found helpful along with eliminating grains, dairy etc.
                          Some of us have a hitamine-associated or mast cell activation disorder..eating foods that have a high histamine content can also cause an increase in symptoms. Lists of such foods can be easily found on the internet, along with lists of foods that tend to trigger the degranulation of mast cells. *Microscopic Colitis by Wayne Persky....
                          I had very real problems very much like yours and was on a strong steriod that made my life livable but it wasn't until I discovered the mast cell involvement in my illness that I was able to make progress. I've found this website to be extremely helpful as not very much is known about this disease which is often diagnosed as IBS...check it out the people are very knowledgeable and friendly.

                          MICROSCOPIC COLITIS SUPPORT :: View Forum - Main Message Board

                          The list of high histamine foods is a tough one to take...just a warning...but if you wanted to test it would be where I'd start.

                          I hope you feel better soon, good luck.
                          A Woman's Place Is In The Revolution.

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                          • #14
                            A dumb suggestion, as it appears you are on top of the testing. I'm so sorry that you haven't found the cause yet...but don't give up.

                            But I found gluten traces in my body lotion. Same brand I always use, but slightly different formulation as they were out of my usual. Sure enough, it had oat and wheat in it. So maybe? Just a thought, and I'm not sure it would play in.
                            The Sedition of Sisyphus: Go Find Another Rock

                            Griff's Cholesterol Primer

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                            • #15
                              Something similar has been happening to me. I can eat meats and fat just fine but ironically vegetables, starchy and non starch, along with rice, and grains give me discomfort/pain on the left side of my stomach. Sometimes up and other times very low.

                              Have you gotten an MRI?. I first got a CT Scan and found nothing, but then I got an MRI and they found a polyp on my gallbladder. I have to conclude that's what's giving me the pain, although it could be different on your case. Oddly enough when it hurts the most is when i eat "clean" vegetables, like plain salad of lettuce and tomatoes (that one was one of the worst times) or boiled tubers, but when i eat tubers "non-primally" like that commercial bought fried cassava I don't feel that much and can eat more of them.

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