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IBS despite primal, and I'm about to lose my mind!

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  • #31
    Excellent article, Thank You!!

    The comments are a good read as well.
    Last edited by meeme; 09-19-2012, 09:39 AM.
    A Woman's Place Is In The Revolution.

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    • #32
      You definitely need a HIDA scan. I had no gallstones so ultrasound was negative, but HIDA scan showed my gallbladder functioning at 15%. That's basically not at all. Got it out 2 weeks ago. All better.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by meeme View Post
        I flush in my face (feel hot) when I'm reacting to a food..
        So if no flush... can I cross this one off my list? I never get a flush or any kind of "traditional" allergic-style reaction to anything.

        Originally posted by jammies View Post
        Also, have you had a colonoscopy? Is it possible you have an autoimmune GI disorder? How about a HIDA scan to see if your gall-bladder is emptying correctly after stimulation?
        Dear heavens, no colonoscopy! But I think you're the second person to mention HIDA, so I'm looking into that. I think the gall bladder is definitely involved in some way. (Ironically, because after I went high fat after 15 years of low to no fat, and had no gall bladder issues those first three years, I thought I had gotten off lucky.)

        Originally posted by lopisheep View Post
        Also, have you ever tried cutting out ALL pickled and fermented of any kind for a week or so and having lots of fun meats, vegetables, and a few fruits and healthy oils. Even maybe a sweet potato or two, but nothing fermented or pickled. Just a thought.
        Yes, I've tried that. Thank you for all the kind thoughts, too!

        Originally posted by BestBetter View Post
        I discovered that some of my big triggers were: fiber, eating too much at once, traveling + stress. ...

        Have you ever tried a digestive enzyme with HCl Betaine? ...

        I know you were wading through those cold rivers and spot icing a while ago, are you still doing that? When I was really bloated, I noticed that icing my abdomen helped to reduce the inflammation, so I'm wondering if this would give you any relief.
        I think that the "BAB" of the leptin reset may be the answer to why this started. Yes, I'd been bloated for a long time prior, but no cramps/runs post-meals. But I feel stuck against lowering it - the BAB was the death knell to a decade of binge ED, and any time I try to reduce it, cravings come back. There's no doubt that the harm from binges is far greater than this somewhat mild IBS thing I've got going on, but I'd like to find a way to rid myself of both.

        IBS clearly causes me stress, but not because I fret about it. Whatever is causing it also causes mental disturbances, including stress. One example is what happened last night, after a respite of a few months. After 30 minutes of drowsiness, I was wide awake, but my mind was spinning (unable to settle down on a single thought for more than 2 seconds), my right leg was twitching RLS-style, & the cramps set in. This exact pattern has happened several times. I might think it was the green tea I recently resumed drinking, but I don't see how caffeine would do all those things. Anyway, my point is that the root cause also causes me to be stressful about things that normally don't stress me, but I'm not stressed about the IBS itself per se. And so I'm sure the stress then contributes to the IBS.

        Yes, I've tried dig enz & HCl to no effect.

        I quit the CT at the beginning of the summer, but strongly feel it calling again. Could it be coincidence that my thyroid & digestive progress stalled all summer? At the same time, I didn't have digestive problems long before I started CT.

        Originally posted by Blackcatbone View Post
        Do you cook with coconut oil? CO has antibacterial properties, which can be helpful, but it can also exacerbate IBS for some. A few months ago I tried to eat small amounts on its own, just a teaspoon, and I spent the following day barely able to sit up I was so dizzy, and running to the bathroom. I have no idea if it was some kind of die off or if it just went through me, but if you use it for cooking it may be having an effect.

        I was going to suggest digestive enzymes as well, although I've never tried them as some things scare me due to how badly I react to them, but I've heard good things from others. Probiotics, prebiotics, all have an awful effect and I react badly to just about every thing that's supposed to be good for the guts. Do you take any supplements?
        CO can be seriously detoxing! But I never had that issue with it. I've been using 2T/day for many years. If it is suddenly causing this problem, I'd want very much to know what had changed to cause that.

        I did drop it for a while in the spring to see what would happen. I thought I saw a positive change, but when I increased it later to make up for decreased animal fat, I saw improvement instead of digression. ?!?

        She makes some great points that all should think about. None of them apply to me, thankfully, as I've already worked through all those issues. I do disagree that any substantial number of people went around dying of digestive illness on a regular basis before dietary changes started to cause them en masse.

        Originally posted by Blackcatbone View Post
        People following a FODMAP diet quickly learn that it isn't something that can be learned quickly. And just because it's paleo-approved doesn't mean a person should eat buckets of it. I see this a lot with coconut products, which tend to be super-high fiber, and the oil which can definitely cause issues. Not saying this is the issue here, but from someone coming from a fairly SAD diet to eat cruciferous veg, coconut flour products, coconut oil and high FODMAP foods all washed down with larger amounts of fat than they're used to, it's often a recipe for bowel disaster.
        All true, and none an issue here. (I have even eliminated FODMAPs.) I was on a traditional foods diet with plenty of natural fats for nearly five years before this started. Thank you again for chiming in; I appreciate it!
        5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
        Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
        Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
        Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
        ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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        • #34
          So, uh, any concerns about the "radioactive tracer" injected into the veins & the "gamma camera" used to photograph your abdomen repeatedly over the next hour?

          When I did the ultrasound, they told me not to eat any fat in the 18 hours before the procedure. But when I got there, they said that wasn't necessary, that I should have just been NPO for 12hrs. Any possibility that kept any gall swelling/etc. from showing up on the ultrasound?
          5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
          Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
          Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
          Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
          ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post

            When I did the ultrasound, they told me not to eat any fat in the 18 hours before the procedure. But when I got there, they said that wasn't necessary, that I should have just been NPO for 12hrs. Any possibility that kept any gall swelling/etc. from showing up on the ultrasound?

            Huh..... When I did my MRI They only told me to fast. And I ate pork the day before. If here's something in there it'll show no matter what/how long you've/haven't eaten. Or at least I think so. Also if you think there's something not working with the gallbladder. Do you think that if you didn't eat fat prior to the scan there won't be any analysis on fat malabsorption?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by belle1954 View Post
              You definitely need a HIDA scan. I had no gallstones so ultrasound was negative, but HIDA scan showed my gallbladder functioning at 15%. That's basically not at all. Got it out 2 weeks ago. All better.
              I don't want t hijack any thread, , but did you have to change your diet after getting your gallbladder removed? Like limiting the fats for a while. I'm getting some second opinions on the scan results but there's a big possibility that mine's going out too.

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              • #37
                Shooting off in a totally different direction: My husband was diagnosed with IBS some years ago. That frustrated me because I felt like it was a non-diagnosis. He had GI symptoms--bloating, nasty cramping, diarrhea, but in an intermittent non-pattern-- but it seemed like that they were sticking the IBS label on him because they did't really know what was wrong with him. Eventually, we solved the mystery. His gut wasn't the real problem, his back was. He had had a seemingly minor back injury MONTHS before the GI symptoms started and xrays later showed a kink in his spine that was putting pressure on the nerves serving the GI tract. Stress/tension seemed to aggravate it. A lot of sitting aggravated it. When he got his back problem straightened out (chiropractor), the GI problems evaporated..... Just a thought. Sometimes it's not what it looks like.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Enilegna/hearts View Post
                  I don't want t hijack any thread, , but did you have to change your diet after getting your gallbladder removed? Like limiting the fats for a while. I'm getting some second opinions on the scan results but there's a big possibility that mine's going out too.
                  There were no restrictions. the doctor said eat whatever i wanted but if I ate something that made me sick or hurt, etc. that i should wait for a few weeks and try it again. I didn't have huge problems before. only 1 gall bladder attack but my big problem was back pain. that was daily and very annoying.

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                  • #39
                    Hey, MamaGrok - Long time no see. Sorry to hear about your troubles, but like your CW, you must be happy with that!

                    I only got two things for you...one would be to get a full set of labs, either doctor ordered or on your own through one of the mail-order places (out-of-pocket $). I really believe that just about anything can be cured with the right labs and someone that can read them. Since my wife started doing this, she's self-diagnosed many of the same problems you have and forced the doctors to see what the real problems were. She had UTI's since last fall, numerous rounds of abx failed to cure it. Turns out she had a kidney tumor--not cancerous--and we just got back from Seattle with one kidney lighter than the other. The docs were happy with abx, but when we found microscopic blood in the urine and some other kidney function labs that were off, they did a CAt scan and found the tumour.

                    Same kinda deal with her bone/joint pain and tendonitis. Numerous rounds of steroid shots and arthritis drugs. We found her Vit D level was 7ng/ml, supposed to be around 50. Got her D up and all is well. You gotta be your own doctor these days.

                    My other idea for you. If you think it is purely a gut flora issue, you can simply your guts for a short time and add back in to see where problems lay. Eat nothing but white rice or white potatoes for 7-10 days. No added fat or flavor, eat all you can because this is very calorie poor. See how you do on this simple diet. If you have gut flora issues, you should notice all your problems go away in 2-3 days of this diet. After 7-10 days--or as long as you can stand it--add in some plain fish, chicken, and broth from whatever. Eat like this another week, then start adding in your regular foods until symptoms reappear.

                    This trick made my wife, a life-long sufferer of IBS and GERD into a believer. As soon as she added in spicy foods or sugar, she'd get distressed instestines. She also found apple cider vinegar and honey (1TBS each) in a little warm water every night helpful as well.

                    Good luck!

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                    • #40
                      There is always a trial of Rifaximin, a GI antibiotic that stays local in the gut, and helps many with IBS. Not much out there to read about, but worked well for me...Common in functional medicine/paleo GI docs etc. I had zero side effects from it, and gas and bloating went away. Easy to take, three times daily for two weeks was my course, you might need a bit longer.

                      Tried to post link, but google rifaximin ibs NEJM and get the New England Journal article...
                      Started Whole30 December 31, 2011
                      Integrated Leptin Reset/Jack Kruse plan Jan 13, 2012
                      Starting Weight: 174.8
                      CW:160.0 lbs

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                      • #41
                        Enilegna, I wonder if my gall bladder might only look bad after I've eaten fat, triggered a bile release, but maybe it's not releasing for some reason? That's why I wonder if the $700 might have been a waste, if I hadn't had any fat. Kind of like having a celiac test run when you haven't had any wheat in 6 months.

                        Originally posted by otzi View Post
                        My other idea for you. If you think it is purely a gut flora issue, you can simply your guts for a short time and add back in to see where problems lay. Eat nothing but white rice or white potatoes for 7-10 days.
                        Hey, AK dude! Long time no see (my fault). I have tons of labs; liver & pancreas show fine. No obvious kidney markers. I have an "education consultation" today and I hope to make some sense out of it all.

                        Your prescription for gut healing is interesting. Where did that idea come from? It's exactly the opposite of SCD/GAPS, of course, which is to eat what Grandma would have given you for a stomach bug: broth, boiled meat, boiled veggies, and NO starches.

                        My first thought is horror, because I can't imagine any result other than me getting to the end of the first day, driving to the Fresh Market, ordering a red velvet cake, and eating the whole thing.
                        5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                        Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                        Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                        Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                        ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post
                          So, uh, any concerns about the "radioactive tracer" injected into the veins & the "gamma camera" used to photograph your abdomen repeatedly over the next hour?

                          When I did the ultrasound, they told me not to eat any fat in the 18 hours before the procedure. But when I got there, they said that wasn't necessary, that I should have just been NPO for 12hrs. Any possibility that kept any gall swelling/etc. from showing up on the ultrasound?
                          NPO before those kinds of ultrasounds are for better visulization.
                          I hear ya on the radioisotope.... but it might be one of those 'pro/con' things. I've had a PET scan before and it is a little freaky if you think about it too much, but if I hadn't had it, I could have ended up a lot sicker than I already was. IMO, there are so many things in our daily lives that we are unknownly exposed to and that is why I am trying to eat and live as clean as I possibly can.
                          Some people just need a sympathetic pat... On the head... With a hammer.

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                          • #43
                            Not trying to scare you, but maybe you should consider getting a colonoscopy. Several of your symptoms seem to coincide with symptoms of colon cancer. I'm sure it's not that, but it would be nice to be able to check that one off of the list.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post
                              Hey, AK dude! Long time no see (my fault). I have tons of labs; liver & pancreas show fine. No obvious kidney markers. I have an "education consultation" today and I hope to make some sense out of it all.

                              Your prescription for gut healing is interesting. Where did that idea come from? It's exactly the opposite of SCD/GAPS, of course, which is to eat what Grandma would have given you for a stomach bug: broth, boiled meat, boiled veggies, and NO starches.

                              My first thought is horror, because I can't imagine any result other than me getting to the end of the first day, driving to the Fresh Market, ordering a red velvet cake, and eating the whole thing.
                              I think you are going to have to quit thinking in terms of protein-fat-carbs until you get your guts straightened out. You are going to have to get way outside your comfort zone, but I know you are dedicated enough to do it. I came up with the potato trick because potatoes have all the amino acids and a good nutritional profile to sustain you while figuring out what is the problem. If you are eating foods that are being digested in the small intestine only, you will have problems. We need foods that travel and are digested the whole way--that's the theory behind FODMAPs. If you can eat potatoes for 7 days and nothing else, you should see your problems disappear. If not, you got bigger problems than gut flora. If your problems go away while on a simple food diet, it will be easy to add back in and see when the problems start. It could be a multitude of foods screwing with you.

                              I'd hate to think you are going through all this because you caught a case of giardia or h.pylori. Let us know how the konsult goes...

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                              • #45
                                More bloating

                                I feel so badly for you and wish I had some good advice to share.

                                I, too, have suffered from bloating for YEARS. My regular, Western practicing docs don't even address it. I had a colonoscopy and an endoscopy. Nothing showed on those. I, too, bloat just drinking water. I have been grain free for 20 days now and still no difference in my bloating. I can put a pair of pants or jeans on and after I eat, I can't fit in them.

                                Now, my diet is not perfect, but it's 95% better than it was 10 years ago and 100% better (make that 110%) than the standard American diet. I eat organic (meats and veggies) when I can. I do not consume caffeine, except what's in a little bit of dark chocolate (I don't drink coffee and only decaf teas on the rare occasion I have them). I have cut my sugar consumption way down (although still battle with some sugar cravings). I don't eat junk food. I drink a good deal of water.
                                I did have a parasite a few years back. I wonder if it has returned. I don't have yeast overgrowth, although a few docs (alternative med docs) thought I did.

                                Hang in there and keep up the good fight. I truly hope you get some answers and relief soon. I DO understand how uncomfortable and frustrating it can be. As I sit here writing this now, I am uncomfortably bloated.

                                Hang in there. Sending you positive thoughts your way.
                                Beth
                                Rochester, NY

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