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Fat adapted different from keto-adapted?

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  • Fat adapted different from keto-adapted?

    Hi all,

    I've been following the Paleo diet about 85-90 percent of the time for about a year now, but just recently started to experiment with ketosis. I'm about a week in as of today, and all weekend I had a lightheaded feeling while occasionally having a pretty bad headache.

    Now I know I'm fat adapted as I can go a while between meals, I once fasted for 72 hours and didn't have any problems. So my question is: is being adapted to ketosis different from simply being adapted to burning fat?

    Thanks,
    JT

  • #2
    I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) that ketosis is the state of burning fat instead of carbs/sugar for fuel.

    Being fat-adapted means you can switch easily between both fuels. From sugar, to fat, back to sugar, back to fat.
    yay!

    Comment


    • #3
      they are completely different. ketosis is a state that occurs when you burn fat in the absence of carbohydrate. normally you use glucose to burn fat (called beta oxidation). if you burn it without glucose, ketones are produced as a byproduct and appear in your blood and urine. you can use them as fuel for your brain and other tissues, but must adapt to it.

      to be clear, i think that ketosis offers no metabolic advantage, and seems to be shrouded in excessive mythos. but i hope it gets you where you hope to go!
      Last edited by jakey; 09-17-2012, 11:59 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jakey View Post
        they are completely different. ketosis is a state that occurs when you burn fat in the absence of carbohydrate. normally you use glucose to burn fat (called beta oxidation). if you burn it without glucose, ketones are produced as a byproduct and appear in your blood and urine. you can use them as fuel for your brain and other tissues, but must adapt to it.

        to be clear, i think that ketosis offers no metabolic advantage, and seems to be shrouded in excessive mythos. but i hope it gets you where you hope to go!
        Thank you, its been about a week and since I don't take measurements and just go by how I look and feel I'm not sure if it's helping per se, but it looks like it is. That could be psychological as well.

        Anyway, this is the information I was looking for. I knew I could burn fat for fuel, but now my body must be adapting to burning ketones. It's wild how adaptive and varied the human body is!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by qqemokitty View Post
          I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) that ketosis is the state of burning fat instead of carbs/sugar for fuel.

          Being fat-adapted means you can switch easily between both fuels. From sugar, to fat, back to sugar, back to fat.
          This is it in a nutshell.^^^^ Fat adapted is what Mark calls being a Fat Burning Beast (do a search on that term. good MDA post)

          Ketosis does cause your body to shed excess water weight and along with it a lot of electrolytes can get flushed (literally) out. The reason you are having headaches is probably some combination of dehydration and lack of salt.

          Comment


          • #6
            In my opinion, ketosis is one of the most effective and most efficient ways to lose weight and cut body-fat. However, it is not the only way to do so. People have done it on a CW diet (although much slower and with more exercise I'm sure).

            Being fat-adapted means your body can utilize both ketones and sugar as energy. You want to be fat adapted rather than ketone-adapted. Ketone-adapted means your body is so used to utilizing ketones that it might have trouble utilizing sugars should they be reintroduced in significant enough quantity.

            On the other hand, sugar-adapted isn't optimal either, because it means your body will have difficulty producing energy if for whatever reason, they drop out of your diet. This is why some people find that eating a CW diet and fasting is so hard for them. Is it any wonder people say fasting is much easier once making the transition to a primal diet?
            "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm about a week in as of today, and all weekend I had a lightheaded feeling while occasionally having a pretty bad headache.
              Have you increased your salt intake?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mike_h View Post
                Have you increased your salt intake?
                Well I haven't increased it no, but it wasn't exactly low to begin with. Breakfast usually is almost always some form of eggs and bacon and I always add salt on top of that, so I don't think salt is the problem.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                  Being fat-adapted means your body can utilize both ketones and sugar as energy. You want to be fat adapted rather than ketone-adapted. Ketone-adapted means your body is so used to utilizing ketones that it might have trouble utilizing sugars should they be reintroduced in significant enough quantity.
                  When one is simply fat adapted, say eating 100g of carbs a day, are they burning ketones? Or at this point is it simply burning dietary fat?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jtrain_36 View Post
                    When one is simply fat adapted, say eating 100g of carbs a day, are they burning ketones? Or at this point is it simply burning dietary fat?
                    Probably just the dietary fat at that point. Excepting days of higher physical activity levels, where you might hit ketosis. But just the fact that you are fat-adapted means you can do this to begin with. If you weren't, your body would be stuck to burning glycogen which was made from converting protein in muscles to glucose. Not good.
                    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jakey View Post
                      they are completely different. ketosis is a state that occurs when you burn fat in the absence of carbohydrate. normally you use glucose to burn fat (called beta oxidation). if you burn it without glucose, ketones are produced as a byproduct and appear in your blood and urine. you can use them as fuel for your brain and other tissues, but must adapt to it.

                      to be clear, i think that ketosis offers no metabolic advantage, and seems to be shrouded in excessive mythos. but i hope it gets you where you hope to go!
                      Jakey, what you think and spread on these threads concerning your negative views of ketosis are NOT supported by imminent scientists world-wide, they are the authorities on the science. Not you, not me, not any of us have anything resembling their knowledge. And THEY ALL STUDY KETOSIS AND FASTING, and report positively on its many many documented health benefits. Why is that, do you 'think'?
                      "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                      "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                      "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        This is it in a nutshell.^^^^ Fat adapted is what Mark calls being a Fat Burning Beast (do a search on that term. good MDA post)

                        Ketosis does cause your body to shed excess water weight and along with it a lot of electrolytes can get flushed (literally) out. The reason you are having headaches is probably some combination of dehydration and lack of salt.
                        Headaches can also be evidence of a detox. Burning fat can release toxins which are recirculating in the bloodstream. Those toxins will be/can be eaten, along with other negative factors in the body, but it takes time... They can also be excreted.
                        "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                        "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                        "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jtrain_36 View Post
                          Well I haven't increased it no, but it wasn't exactly low to begin with. Breakfast usually is almost always some form of eggs and bacon and I always add salt on top of that, so I don't think salt is the problem.
                          Bacon is tasty and I generally eat in on the weekend as a treat. For me, its part of the 20%. I wouldn't recommend it to others for trying to achieve or stay in ketosis, nor would I eat bacon myself in striving to hit/stay in ketosis. Imo, it's not clean enough, too processed for my standards. But thats just me. I eat much simpler pre- & post- of my ketotic fasts, mostly fat, mod protein & VLC, than my standard fare.

                          @Drumroll:

                          Originally Posted by Drumroll

                          "Being fat-adapted means your body can utilize both ketones and sugar as energy. You want to be fat adapted rather than ketone-adapted. Ketone-adapted means your body is so used to utilizing ketones that it might have trouble utilizing sugars should they be reintroduced in significant enough quantity."

                          Can you cite your sources for this info? Thanks!

                          I might have read that somewhere & brain farted it out of my memory...
                          Last edited by Betorq; 09-17-2012, 06:17 PM.
                          "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                          "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                          "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                            Bacon is tasty and I generally eat in on the weekend as a treat. For me, its part of the 20%. I wouldn't recommend it to others for trying to achieve or stay in ketosis, nor would I eat bacon myself in striving to hit/stay in ketosis. Imo, it's not clean enough, too processed for my standards. But thats just me. I eat much simpler pre- & post- of my ketotic fasts, mostly fat, mod protein & VLC, than my standard fare.
                            While I wish I could change this right now I'm in college and am stuck with the food that's on the menu at the various cafeterias in the dorm. I guarantee you that I am not eating 100% paleo just based off of vegetable oils that I can't really avoid. It's an unfortunate circumstance.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                              @Drumroll:

                              Originally Posted by Drumroll

                              "Being fat-adapted means your body can utilize both ketones and sugar as energy. You want to be fat adapted rather than ketone-adapted. Ketone-adapted means your body is so used to utilizing ketones that it might have trouble utilizing sugars should they be reintroduced in significant enough quantity."

                              Can you cite your sources for this info? Thanks!

                              I might have read that somewhere & brain farted it out of my memory...
                              I'm looking. I read it a while back, but only once or twice I think. Ugh, I can't find it so far. I THINK it was like almost a year ago that I read it?

                              It was in connection largely to the people who use deep ketogenic diets for therapeutic purposes, such as epilepsy. It didn't relate to the lighter version of ketosis most weightlifters, paleo/primal, low-carb enthusiasts are usually after.
                              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                              Comment

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