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The Intermittent Fasting Dilemma 9/14/2012 by Ori Hofmekler Part 1

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  • #31
    It is much easier for me to either eat, or dont eat also. Once I start, I want to get satisfied. But even if that is one meal, it is not really one ginormous meal either. My 24 hour fast days just end up being low cal days. My regular days, are usually Fast-5's and those end up being normal calorie days spaced throughout my window.

    I should add that by normal, I mean 1200 - 1500.

    Just got this email from Eat Stop Eat dude, regarding the 24s:

    OK, so remember the doctor who was quoting as saying that
    fasting "resets" the metabolism, and how the journalist made that sound
    like a really bad thing?

    Well here is the full quote from the doctor...
    "Fasting for 24 hours--foregoing not just food but drinks as
    well--may allow the body to rest and reset metabolism, increasing
    the body's sensitivity to glucose and insulin," says Horne,
    director of cardiovascular and genetic epidemiology at
    Intermountain Medical Center in Salt Lake City. "This hypothesis is
    supported by animal research findings of an association between
    fasting and increased longevity. Fasting may aid expression of
    genes related to glycogen, a molecule that seems to increase
    storage of glucose."
    It would be hard for me to go w/o drinks, even just water. I noticed I do much better with a little salt in my water especially in the morning. Might just take some getting use to I guess. however, it does seem like when I fast, I have to remind myself to drink water.
    Last edited by gopintos; 09-17-2012, 05:28 PM.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Nady View Post
      Info like this?
      Nady, from another person with slightly tweaked neurology, I adore you. Great article.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
        Nady, from another person with slightly tweaked neurology, I adore you. Great article.
        Just don't knock your back out as you bow and scrape~

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        • #34
          Originally posted by gopintos View Post
          It would be hard for me to go w/o drinks, even just water. I noticed I do much better with a little salt in my water especially in the morning. Might just take some getting use to I guess. however, it does seem like when I fast, I have to remind myself to drink water.
          I think that quote refers to abstaining from foods and drink as in non-water drinks w/ calories and nutrition. I don't think it means to not drink water. That could mess you up in a hurry unless you are really pure and cleaned out already, a well-experienced faster. Speaking of going without water, in the '80s, I once went an entire week not drinking water or bathing as an experiment. It was a true water fast, a fast from water, but I was eating food ! Haha. Man did I get slick, grimy and stinky!
          "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
          "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
          "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Betorq View Post
            I don't think it means to not drink water.
            SWHEW!

            oh, and the 80's. I remember those... sort of.
            65lbs gone and counting!!

            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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            • #36
              Regarding the brain thing, I was reading online how some researchers consider Alzheimer's to be type 3 diabetes. And then I found Emily Deans' post about ketogenic diets helping a small part of the brain of people with early Alzheimer's.
              Evolutionary Psychiatry: Alzheimer's, Mild Cognitive Impairment, and Ketosis

              In my mind there is some overlap with ketogenic diets and intermittent fasting, after all, what can be lower carb than eating nothing. Plus the whole fasting thing seems to work similar to calorie restriction which seems to also work similar to ketogenic diets.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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              • #37
                Cheers sbhikes, checking that out now too

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                • #38
                  Did my 24 hours today . Well technically I'm at 23 right now, but I'll take my time getting dinner togeather. I was thinking about extending, but going to bed on an empty stomach SOOOOOO sucks. I may do it sometime, but not today.

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                  • #39
                    I've been weekday IF'ing (only eating dinner) for a couple of months now, and my wife was concerned at the start that it wasn't good for me. Then she was concerned that it was being a bad roll model for my girls (since I still sit with the family for breakfast, and they see me eating nothing more than a brazil nut).

                    My compromise is to have a cup of miso soup for breakfast, on the grounds that it is unlikely to derail my fast but still looks like eating to them.
                    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                    Griff's cholesterol primer
                    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                    bloodorchid is always right

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                      I've been weekday IF'ing (only eating dinner) for a couple of months now, and my wife was concerned at the start that it wasn't good for me. Then she was concerned that it was being a bad roll model for my girls (since I still sit with the family for breakfast, and they see me eating nothing more than a brazil nut).

                      My compromise is to have a cup of miso soup for breakfast, on the grounds that it is unlikely to derail my fast but still looks like eating to them.
                      Yal I am glad my kids are grown. Of course we never all sat down to breakfast anyhow, so my eating dinner would fit right in. My youngest son is 18, and for years now, he eats once or twice a day anyways. If he eats twice, it is about every 12 hours. Before Primal, I might be up to fix his middle of the night feeding, but now he is on his own cuz I am in snoooooozeville. He pretty much eats primal but he does like buns and tortilla shells. He likes a deliver system loaded with meat, few veggies, eggs, & cheese.
                      65lbs gone and counting!!

                      Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                        I've been weekday IF'ing (only eating dinner) for a couple of months now, and my wife was concerned at the start that it wasn't good for me. Then she was concerned that it was being a bad roll model for my girls (since I still sit with the family for breakfast, and they see me eating nothing more than a brazil nut).

                        My compromise is to have a cup of miso soup for breakfast, on the grounds that it is unlikely to derail my fast but still looks like eating to them.
                        Miso soup in the morning is a great way to satisfy your family while still maintaining less than 50 calories & it's full of enzymes, probiotics & salt, all things very beneficial on a fast, or anytime. Just make it a small bowl re the 50 cal.
                        "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                        "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                        "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Wondering what people think of this article, if I may paste it in its entirety:


                          Don't feed your head
                          Michael Anft


                          Fish, we’re told, is brain food. So are blueberries, as they contain nutrients that help us remember things. But could it be that the brain, the hoggish human command center that makes up only 2 percent of our total body weight but requires 20 percent of the calories we consume, is actually better off when we deprive ourselves of food altogether? Scientists at the National Institute on Aging, led by Mark Mattson, a professor of neuroscience at the School of Medicine, think so. In several papers Mattson discussed during a meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in February, he and other researchers say that depriving ourselves via fasting twice a week could significantly lower the risk of developing Alzheimer’s disease or Parkinson’s.

                          The findings resonate with decades-old studies that show a link between caloric intake and oxidative “rusting”—the stress on cells that comes when people get older and take in food. “One of the only ways to slow down the progression of aging that involves disease or organ malfunctions is to reduce energy intake,” says Mattson, who has been studying Alzheimer’s and the brain for 20 years and, according to Thomson Reuters’ database, is the most cited neuroscientist in scholarly journals worldwide. “As is similar to what happens when muscles are exercised, the neurons in the brain benefit from being mildly stressed. To achieve the right kind of stress, people might benefit from severely minimizing their food intake.”

                          Mattson and others have tested their theories on animal models and small groups of human subjects. In studies involving experimental mice, neurons in the brain become more active when the rodents are hungrily searching for food. What’s more, fasting animals develop protective measures against damage from stroke and other mechanisms that cause degeneration in the brain. “What we’ve discovered in both animal and human studies is that it’s good to submit your brain to challenges, especially in the short term,” Mattson says, citing research done by several groups in recent years.

                          But why fasting? Wouldn’t reducing calorie intake overall also help the brain? Apparently not, or at least not as much. Sticking to an intermittent crash diet, with no more than 500 calories two days per week, primes the brain for protection, he says. Studies show that keeping calories at around that level stimulates two messaging chemicals that operate at the cellular level and are key to the growth of brain cells in animals and humans, Mattson explains. The shock of fasting leads the brain to create new cells. As neurons are coaxed to grow, the brain becomes more resistant to the effects of protein plaques that underlie cases of Alzheimer’s, or the damage inflicted by Parkinson’s.

                          “Fasting imposes more stress on the cells, but in a good way,” he adds. “There’s an increase in adaptive stress responses when people intermittently fast that is good for maintaining the brain.”

                          Dietary changes have long been known to have an effect on the brain. Children who suffer from epileptic seizures have fewer of them when placed on caloric restriction or fasts. It is believed that fasting helps kick-start protective measures that help counteract the overexcited signals that epileptic brains often exhibit. (Some children with epilepsy have also benefited from a specific high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet.) Normal brains, when overfed, can experience another kind of uncontrolled excitation, impairing the brain’s function, Mattson and another researcher reported in January in the journal Nature Reviews Neuroscience.

                          The intermittent fasting advocated by Mattson and others for overall brain health may be linked to how humankind has evolved. There are reasons why the intermittent shocks of hunger do a brain good. “Our ancestors undoubtedly had to go without food for stretches of time,” Mattson explains. “It hasn’t been that long since humanity lacked regular supplies of food. When you search for food when you’re hungry, the brain is really engaged. The individuals who survive the best—the ones whose brains are more attuned to predators and who can remember where food sources are—are the ones who’ve survived.”

                          Partly because he is worried people might not be able to stick to it, Mattson isn’t promoting a strict, water-only fast. He advises people to drink plenty of water or unsweetened tea and to eat no more than 500 calories per fasting day via fiber-rich vegetables. He warns, however, that fasting is not recommended for the very young, who need many more calories to keep them growing, or people over 70, whose brains seem to derive little benefit from intermittent food deprivation.
                          edit: the link http://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2012/sum...feed-your-head
                          and I bolded the part that stuck out for me. Any comments/thoughts very welcome, I'm thinking of doing this.
                          Last edited by Sabre; 09-24-2012, 12:44 PM.

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                          • #43
                            That's interesting, although I won't put any weight on rodent studies as having a crossover effect on humans. The 'longevity' benefit of fasting that rodents get has not been replicated in primate studies.
                            Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                            Griff's cholesterol primer
                            5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                            Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                            TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                            bloodorchid is always right

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              It's a nice non-technical article, well balanced & short. Imo this would be an excellent forward to anyone you know who might benefit from I.T. The only thing I winced over, was the 500 calories/day via veggies. For me, I couldn't consistently stop myself from wanting & then eating more food once I get started when I'm hungry...No calories or very very little works for me. And I think for many others as well. But for many, this compromise may be their deciding factor to do it or not, so it's a good option to have on the table.

                              @Sabre, you forgot to include the link, here tis: http://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2012/sum...feed-your-head
                              "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                              "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                              "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Nady View Post
                                Curious about what you would consider evidence?
                                Sorry for the delay in answering- I usually just go a page or two back on the threads, and somehow it escaped my notice that more had been posted here.

                                I think I was looking for studies, or step-by-step explanations. I don't have the book anymore, so I can't pull a quote, but here's a pretend example. Say he said 'people naturally prefer to eat later in the day.' There was nothing like a footnote to a study/studies showing this, or an explanation of (completely made up terms, just to show what I am talking about) 'Enzyme z, which regulates tastebuds is at low levels after sleep periods lasting more than four fours, and slowly rises by x% to a peak between 12 and 14 hours after rising.'

                                I just remember thinking time after time, 'you say so, but that doesn't make it so, why should I believe it? Give me reasons.' After a few chapters of that, I just got annoyed.

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