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  • #16
    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Not sure what's meant by this. What defines a carbohydrate "need"? What defines fat "need"? What defines protein "need"? Why would you think your body cares if you ingest carbohydrate, fat or protein? Neither is healthier than the other. It always depends on the source, and it comes down to overall nutrition. A diet full of potatoes is going to be a lot healthier than a diet full of coconut because potatoes are more nutritious on the whole.

    Let's take a look at 300 kcal of raw coconut meat.



    That's pretty lame compared to a white potato or sweet potato. Even with all those scary carbs, you're probably going to be a lot healthier stuffing your face full of potatoes than comparatively "empty" coconuts. Perspective is important.
    I've seen generations of people that ate a coconut predominant diet. They were lean & their hair, eyes and skin shone in the sun! Compared to potato dominant eating peoples, c'mon man, you're only fooling yourself with that pseudo-science cherry picking you call facts. Coconuts, in excess, don't spike insulin or cause weight gain as the fat is used first for fuel before stored as body fat, if one exercises moderately but regularly. Potatoes, in excess, for most people both spikes insulin and causes weight gain or prevents many people from losing weight, despite exercise being factored in. Ok, so you're a young, lean, fat-adapted athlete. Most of the world doesn't match your profile. When are you going to "get" that important detail?
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Betorq View Post
      I've seen generations of people that ate a coconut predominant diet. They were lean & their hair, eyes and skin shone in the sun! Compared to potato dominant eating peoples, c'mon man, you're only fooling yourself with that pseudo-science cherry picking you call facts. Coconuts, in excess, don't spike insulin or cause weight gain as the fat is used first for fuel before stored as body fat, if one exercises moderately but regularly. Potatoes, in excess, for most people both spikes insulin and causes weight gain or prevents many people from losing weight, despite exercise being factored in. Ok, so you're a young, lean, fat-adapted athlete. Most of the world doesn't match your profile. When are you going to "get" that important detail?
      What? Let's think about this for a second.

      Cultures that eat a lot of coconut are from tropical regions. People from tropical regions have much darker skin, receive much more sun exposure and have a much greater Vitamin D concentration in their blood. They are also more likely to be physically active as the weather is always conducive to being outside in tropical regions. These cultures are also known to have very high intakes of fish, which tends to be great for the skin.

      Cultures that eat a lot of potatoes are from cold, Northern regions. People from these regions have much lighter skin, see comparatively little exposure to the sun and have lower levels of Vitamin D in their bodies. They are less likely to be physically active because the weather is not as conducive to outdoor activity as well. These cultures typically have a low intake of fish and are often landlocked.

      So, you mean to tell me the culture that gets a lot of sun exposure and are outdoors a lot more often may be potentially leaner and have more vibrant skin? Or are you just totally fabricating a hypothetical situation that "generations of people that ate a coconut predominant diet" are leaner and have better skin? I'm guessing you completely made that up to support a biased agenda and you have zero evidence to show that is some kind of scientific fact, and even if it were somehow true, there are clearly countless confounding factors you haven't considered.

      This is why I say read less and experiment more. Someone could potentially read your post and take it seriously.
      Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-17-2012, 06:44 PM.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

      Comment


      • #18
        My question is how does any individual know how many calories they need?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
          What? Let's think about this for a second.

          Cultures that eat a lot of coconut are from tropical regions. People from tropical regions have much darker skin, receive much more sun exposure and have a much greater Vitamin D concentration in their blood. They are also more likely to be physically active as the weather is always conducive to being outside in tropical regions. These cultures are also known to have very high intakes of fish, which tends to be great for the skin.

          Cultures that eat a lot of potatoes are from cold, Northern regions. People from these regions have much lighter skin, see comparatively little exposure to the sun and have lower levels of Vitamin D in their bodies. They are less likely to be physically active because the weather is not as conducive to outdoor activity as well. These cultures typically have a low intake of fish and are often landlocked.

          So, you mean to tell me the culture that gets a lot of sun exposure and are outdoors a lot more often may be potentially leaner and have more vibrant skin? Or are you just totally fabricating a hypothetical situation that "generations of people that ate a coconut predominant diet" are leaner and have better skin? I'm guessing you completely made that up to support a biased agenda and you have zero evidence to show that is some kind of scientific fact, and even if it were somehow true, there are clearly countless confounding factors you haven't considered.

          This is why I say read less and experiment more. Someone could potentially read your post and take it seriously.
          HAHA! Somebody could possibly take my post seriously, and that would be ok since its based on experience. Taco nearly anybody yes, even a well read school child(what do you have against reading?), even a school child knows potatoes are from South America, not "cold northern regions". Ya know, dark skinned South Americans that do eat ruminants & some fish too... And I have traveled 3rd world countries since the early 80s & LIVED with villagers in Central & South America,Caribbean, South East Asia & tropical South India. Didn't acquire this knowledge from reading, but from living with these peoples. Epic attempt dude but a fail non-the-less... I do read but I prefer real world experiences as well. How 'bout you?

          Edit: You're arrogance and false importance & correctness is bothersome as it's your standard M.O.. But when you continue to sound off, out the side of your face, supposing that anything or anyone who opposes your all-mighty intellect & knowledge must be making stuff up, gawd that boils my blood.

          My advice : Grow up, mature some more in a few years, hopefully gain some humility so you don't humiliate yourself again like you just did here publically, then meet me again for another joust when you're up to it. But imo, you got served & LOST this one dude. DEFINITIVELY.
          Last edited by Betorq; 09-17-2012, 07:55 PM.
          "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
          "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
          "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Betorq View Post
            HAHA! Somebody could possibly take my post seriously, and that would be ok since its based on experience. Taco nearly anybody yes, even a well read school child(what do you have against reading?), even a school child knows potatoes are from South America, not "cold northern regions". Ya know, dark skinned South Americans that do eat ruminants & some fish too... And I have traveled 3rd world countries since the early 80s & LIVED with villagers in Central & South America,Caribbean, South East Asia & tropical South India. Didn't acquire this knowledge from reading, but from living with these peoples. Epic attempt dude but a fail non-the-less... I do read but I prefer real world experiences as well. How 'bout you?
            The potato is a starchy, tuberous crop from the perennial Solanum tuberosum of the Solanaceae family (also known as the nightshades). The word may refer to the plant itself as well as the edible tuber. In the region of the Andes, there are some other closely related cultivated potato species. Potatoes were introduced outside the Andes region four centuries ago
            Potato - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            And in case you were wondering:

            The Andes is the longest continental mountain range in the world. It is a continual range of highlands along the western coast of South America. This range is about 7,000 km (4,300 mi) long, about 200 km (120 mi) to 700 km (430 mi) wide (widest between 18 south and 20 south latitude), and of an average height of about 4,000 m (13,000 ft).
            Andes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            Yes, the dark-skinned South Americans residing 13,000 feet above sea level in the Andes mountains. Truly, they live in the tropics.

            If you ask a school child where potatoes traditionally come from, they'll likely say Ireland since school children are taught all about the potato famine. Tubers are often regarded as a cold weather food, similar to squashes. Sweet potato season isn't here yet. A potato is not an African yam.

            Originally posted by Betorq View Post
            Edit: You're arrogance and false importance & correctness is bothersome as it's your standard M.O.. But when you continue to sound off, out the side of your face, supposing that anything or anyone who opposes your all-mighty intellect & knowledge must be making stuff up, gawd that boils my blood.
            Yes, me telling people to experiment for themselves and not to fear real food regardless of macros instead of believing in someone's sales tactics is truly infuriating isn't it? It is when you have an agenda I suppose. I really couldn't care less about your feelings, so hopefully this makes your blood boil even more and you'll eventually just stop responding.

            Originally posted by Betorq View Post
            My advice : Grow up, mature some more in a few years, hopefully gain some humility so you don't humiliate yourself again like you just did here publically, then meet me again for another joust when you're up to it. But imo, you got served & LOST this one dude. DEFINITIVELY.
            Wow, the youngster card, eh? Sounds like you're the one with some arrogance issues. Isn't it past your bedtime?
            Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-17-2012, 08:10 PM.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Betorq View Post
              Potatoes, in excess, for most people both spikes insulin and causes weight gain or prevents many people from losing weight, despite exercise being factored in. Ok, so you're a young, lean, fat-adapted athlete. Most of the world doesn't match your profile. When are you going to "get" that important detail?
              In about twenty years.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                If you ask a school child where potatoes traditionally come from, they'll likely say Ireland since school children are taught all about the potato famine. Tubers are often regarded as a cold weather food, similar to squashes. Sweet potato season isn't here yet. A potato is not an African yam.

                Wow, the youngster card, eh? Sounds like you're the one with some arrogance issues. Isn't it past your bedtime?
                A badly educated schoolchild, yes. But those are the ones you hang out with right?

                The original question was about all kinds of potatoes, white and sweet. Many people confuse yams with sweet potatoes so I'm not sure if the OP meant to include these too.

                Face it kiddo, you got your ass handed to you. Logic trumps bravado every time. You are the one up past your bedtime. It's a school night

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  In about twenty years.
                  Never. Because I am the norm, not the exception.

                  The real food fear around here needs to stop. It's incredibly tiring and incredibly immature to see everyone trying to create excuses for themselves. Everyone is an "exception." News flash - it is not normal human behavior to be unable to metabolize perfectly healthy food. People simply can't wrap their mind around personal responsibility, and everyone needs something to blame. It doesn't work like that. Potatoes never made anyone diabetic. Neither did fruit. Processed foods made out of refined corn syrup and polyunsaturated fat made people sick, and it's not due to carb load, it's due to the horrendous levels of stress and hormonal dysfunction inherent in these toxic foods. It's not the carb load in wheat that's bad, it's the gluten, WGA, phytate and a myriad of other lectins we're unaware of paired with the rancid polyunsaturated fat inherent in the milled seed.

                  Very few people on this forum are special cases. It's been very, very difficult to post in this forum lately because there are less and less people here actually trying to get healthy and it's turned into a land of people selling agendas and promoting eating disorders, and no one seems to have even read the book.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    A badly educated schoolchild, yes. But those are the ones you hang out with right?

                    The original question was about all kinds of potatoes, white and sweet. Many people confuse yams with sweet potatoes so I'm not sure if the OP meant to include these too.

                    Face it kiddo, you got your ass handed to you. Logic trumps bravado every time. You are the one up past your bedtime. It's a school night
                    No, I didn't. The conversation had absolutely nothing to do with a potato. The potato was an example, and you have people with agendas creating straw man fallacies in order to detract from the topic at hand. The point is, carb load is absolutely irrelevant in the majority of cases. The "potato" was used - by me - as an example because it is more nutritious per calorie than primal darlings like the coconut. The point is, in general it does not matter if you eat potatoes or coconut or whatever. Eat what makes you feel best and stop thinking in terms of macros. Real food is real food.

                    You didn't read the thread, and you commented on what you were ignorant of. Betorq created a completely ridiculous hypothetical situation to push an agenda, and when faced with confounding factors that he didn't account for in said BS hypothetical situation, he did what any coward does - he perverted the argument and attempted to tear down the person instead of admitting that he was wrong to do so. Throw in a simple appeal to authority, and you have a master of fallacies.
                    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-17-2012, 08:32 PM.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      Oh boy...

                      Potato - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      And in case you were wondering:

                      Andes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      Yes, the dark-skinned South Americans residing 13,000 feet above sea level in the Andes mountains. Truly, they live in the tropics.

                      If you ask a school child where potatoes traditionally come from, they'll likely say Ireland. Tubers are often regarded as a cold weather food, similar to squashes. Sweet potato season isn't here yet. A potato is not an African yam.

                      Yes, me telling people to experiment for themselves and not to fear real food regardless of macros instead of believing in someone's sales tactics is truly infuriating isn't it? It is when you have an agenda I suppose. I really couldn't care less about your agenda, so hopefully this makes your blood boil even more and you'll eventually just stop responding.

                      Wow, the youngster card, eh? Sounds like you're the one with some arrogance issues. Peace out, old man
                      If 2 months into 47 y.o. qualifies me as an old man, that's ok I can live with that. I have no agenda nor am I selling any products nor services online by posting here on MDA. I derive no profit nor does posting here increase my actual businesses. I post here because I want(ed) to give back, as I was a lurker, just reading & learning for more than a year, on & off. You must know that I never said nor even inferred the Andes, which I have been up near the top myself when I was your age, was the tropics. And sure, certainly, I do have arrogance issues, but I can readily recognize them, admit them, talk about them, & most of the time, defuse them before foot in mouth ensues. And what are you babbling about sweet potatoes and yams in season, tubers being cold weather foods? Where is taro from? Sweet potato, yam, cassava? Yes, potatoes are from high altitude Andes originally yes. But the majority are from hot places, can we at least agree on the originating climates/lands of these tubers?

                      Have you ever traveled internationally? Where do you get your knowledge? Books, internet, travel magazines or lucid dreaming?

                      Maybe the school kids where I'm from are sharper and/or better informed than those from your neighborhood, I dunno. But the kids around here in North Atlanta & even where I live, in Northern Cali, are sharp as tacks. I do some volunteer work with some kids here once a week while I'm in Atlanta, and I wish I had the advantages and educational resources growing up that they have and that they capitalize on. I was a smart enough kid, but I facked off a lot/too much.

                      In my advanced elderly years, I do try to keep up and read some here & there, while my eyes are still good enough to read by candlelight
                      "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                      "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                      "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                        Never. Because I am the norm, not the exception.

                        The real food fear around here needs to stop. It's incredibly tiring and incredibly immature to see everyone trying to create excuses for themselves. Everyone is an "exception." News flash - it is not normal human behavior to be unable to metabolize perfectly healthy food. People simply can't wrap their mind around personal responsibility, and everyone needs something to blame. It doesn't work like that. Potatoes never made anyone diabetic. Neither did fruit. Processed foods made out of refined corn syrup and polyunsaturated fat made people sick, and it's not due to carb load, it's due to the horrendous levels of stress and hormonal dysfunction inherent in these toxic foods. It's not the carb load in wheat that's bad, it's the gluten, WGA, phytate and a myriad of other lectins we're unaware of paired with the rancid polyunsaturated fat inherent in the milled seed.

                        Very few people on this forum are special cases. It's been very, very difficult to post in this forum lately because there are less and less people here actually trying to get healthy and it's turned into a land of people selling agendas and promoting eating disorders, and no one seems to have even read the book.
                        You are the young healthy norm that humankind SHOULD be, yes. You are Grok in his mid 20's. Yay you. You are not the statistical norm of modern day reality however and you are certainly not the norm on a board where most (not all) people are interested in losing at least some weight.

                        Nobody's making excuses. I am 50 and I just lost 5 dress sizes and 65 lbs, healed my thyroid and climbed a very tall mountain. I didn't sit around saying I am fat because of potatoes. I chose not to eat potatoes and all other starches and sugars and lost the weight.

                        And nobody is fearing real foods. They are just picking and choosing the real foods that work best for them. Eat your spuds. Enjoy. I know they are not good for me. Why can't you deal with the fact that people are different?

                        Promoting eating disorders? IIRC, you are the one who has been pushing the UD2 complete with cake binges.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Much as I enjoy a good taco takedown, I actually agree with the first few posts that he made here.

                          I think that potatoes have been unnecessarily vilified in paleo/primal circles, and that they are quite similar nutritionally to sweet potatoes once they have been cooked. I can't understand the different relative statuses of the potatoes and kumara (sweet potatoes) where one is fine while the other must be banished from your diet.

                          We currently don't eat potatoes in our household, but that's because the wif is trying out a nightshades elimination diet at the moment (which also means no capsicums....).

                          To the OP: When I need more calories, my go-to is bananas topped with dark chocolate and cream.
                          Last edited by magicmerl; 09-17-2012, 08:50 PM.
                          Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                          Griff's cholesterol primer
                          5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                          Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                          TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                          bloodorchid is always right

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hey, I enjoy sweet potatoes and I absolutely adore yucca (deep fried in coco oil, sorry Taco). I have never talked or written a single word demonizing any foods, even white sugar has its uses (kombucha anyone?). I can eat anything I want, as I have an iron stomach & a high metabolism. I just 'choose' to eat LC/VLC coz it works for me. My mom eats more fruit & sweet potatoes than I do as that's her pleasure, & it works for her as she's losing fat while building muscle, while reversing symptoms and markers of high BP, hypothyroidism & heart disease at age 75! And I buy, clean, slice & serve them to her with a smile. I love carbs, who doesn't? But I limit them, for now as I approach my lean & metabolic goals.

                            Taco, I'm wrong at times, sometimes a lot, I can admit it at this point in my life. Why is this such an issue with you? I am asking from a place of genuine concern and non-aggression. I apologize for my extreme attack mode earlier. See what I did there: I admitted I was out of line, and I apologized. But I still contend my views, observations & life experiences are valid & genuine.
                            "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                            "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                            "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                              Much as I enjoy a good taco takedown, I actually agree with the first few posts that he made here.

                              I think that potatoes have been unnecessarily vilified in paleo/primal circles, and that they are quite similar nutritionally to sweet potatoes once they have been cooked. I can't understand the different relative statuses of the potatoes and kumara (sweet potatoes).

                              We currently don't eat them in our household, but that's because the wif is trying out a nightshades elimination diet at the moment (which also means no capsicums....).

                              To the OP: When I need more calories, my go-to is bananas topped with dark chocolate and cream.
                              I couldn't agree more. They are totally primal if that is what you want. They are a good way to get some extra calories in if you are really burning through them with your workouts.

                              It's just when nonsense like "potatoes come from places where people have white skin and poor vit d exposure" come spewing out along with demands that others accept his way of eating as perfect and implications that anything else is disordered eating start flying, then it is time for a taco takedown.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                                Much as I enjoy a good taco takedown, I actually agree with the first few posts that he made here.

                                I think that potatoes have been unnecessarily vilified in paleo/primal circles, and that they are quite similar nutritionally to sweet potatoes once they have been cooked. I can't understand the different relative statuses of the potatoes and kumara (sweet potatoes) where one is fine while the other must be banished from your diet.

                                We currently don't eat potatoes in our household, but that's because the wif is trying out a nightshades elimination diet at the moment (which also means no capsicums....).

                                To the OP: When I need more calories, my go-to is bananas topped with dark chocolate and cream.
                                I do the same, or used to until recently. Frozen bananas with melted chocolate, cinnamon, touch of stevia & seasalt, maybe some cayenne powder for good measure & sprinkle coco flakes over the whole thing, looks like a phallic Christmas...

                                "Much as I enjoy a good taco takedown". Thanks for the good & sustained laugh i got outta that line....

                                If I were going to eat potatoes anytime soon, it'd have to be those purple ones, they are so cool looking (my favorite colour) & they're quite yummy creamy. We used to eat them "con crema y sal" roadside @ crossroads waiting around forever for beat up old '60s buses that were late or never came in Guatemala & once I think I recall in Colombia too, on our way back to the Venezuelan border crossing.
                                "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                                "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                                "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                                Comment

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