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Giving up foods and mental health

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  • #16
    You have a mental issue that is manifesting itself as a food issue. Eat whatever you want if you think that will make you happy. Though your past experience seems to be that eating is going to be a huge issue no matter what you eat. Working on the mental problem may solve the food issue.

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    • #17
      [QUOTE=Phil-SC;948798]I offer that food may be a MAJOR component of mental health.

      I have a mantra that I have spouted for years..."If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right....".

      I'm with Phil.

      I also think you would do well to continue talk therapy, but with a better therapist!

      From the age of 13 I had significant mental issues. Around my middle twenties I started to get happier. The older I am, the happier I get. Perhaps I am gaining wisdom. I just wish it hadn't taken so long! With all the info you have at your fingertips, you can succeed!

      You have just gotten out of, and still feel the effects of puberty. If you don't eat well and take good care of yourself during puberty, you are thrown way out of whack emotionally and physically. While those feelings, that identity linger, realize that you are young enough to recover quickly! Give the Primal lifestyle a good hearty long try. You don't want to be 60 still feeling the way you do, do you?

      I see us humans as bags of chemical reactions. So much of what we blame on emotions and mental issues have a physical solution. For example, I went through menopause recently. I did not realize I was going through menopause at first. I just thought I hated everything, was over-thinking, paranoid and depressed. So the light bulb finally lit and I took an over the counter pill, Estroven. That got me into a better mood. Then I looked at my crappy diet, and went Primal/Paleo. Almost instant happiness, mind-clearing and pain-free living resulted. The crazy out of control hunger ceased and I began to hunger for exercise. Truly, my mental health is vastly improved. All by physical causes.

      Good luck! You can do it!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Phil-SC View Post
        I have a mantra that I have spouted for years..."If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right....".
        Phil, this is really, really good! This is my cycle as well, I have just never been able to put it so succinctly.

        Thanks!!
        I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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        • #19
          I feel very much the same way, but I am trying to come to accept that the real goal is not to be ripped and beautiful, but to be happy. And if being happy means not having a perfect body, but enjoying an apple or buckwheat or something else, to the last bite, so be it. I have read Susan Alberts' books on Mindful Eating maybe 3 or 4 times each, and I resist less and less to what she is saying. Judgments, mindless dieting, cravings - that just leads to harm. I am more and more leaning towards trying to forget everything bit the basics, that the whole, unaltered foods are the most comforting, but food is not the ultimate comfort. I think that dieting made me worship food as a source of happiness, both due to chronic hunger and to the restrictions. I don't think I want to live the rest of my life in fear of eating something wrong.
          Last edited by Leida; 01-10-2013, 02:44 PM.
          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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          • #20
            OP, I've totally been having all these thoughts for the last month or so.

            You know, I have a friend who is gorgeous, but always carried an extra few pounds. Occasionally she used to moan about feeling fat, but had a healthy appetite and enjoyed her food. Another friend convinced her to do weightwatchers. They both slimmed up, but after about six months, friend A started binging. She never had issues with an ED before this point in her life (she was 29 at the time). She did however, have a history of suffering from depression. Friend B doesn't, and didn't have any binging episodes.

            I suffer from depression and an ED and I initially thought that cutting out addictive foods would be helpful. They were initially. But after about three months I "fell off the wagon". My body should have been "clean" but when the high of "getting clean" was over (change is addictive too!) I wanted my old pattern back.

            Addiction is more than physical for some of us, and if you've got a tendency towards it then food just becomes another delivery system for physical highs that are inextricably linked to concurrent self loathing.

            I personally think that, if you've got these tendencies, the restrictions set up a framework of denial and punishment, which just keep fuelling the addition. I've had drug, cigarette and alcohol dependencies over the years which were crutches for my anxieties and sadness, but I think they never developed into full blown addictions cos I never hated myself for doing them or felt like i needed to stop. Over the years I became more comfortable with myself socially, and I gradually stopped doing all of those things. But they're not off limits.

            The food thing is harder for me cos' it's linked to physical appearance and the inbuilt programming that skinny is beautiful. If you suffer from feelings of worthlessness, your physical appearance just becomes another way to punish yourself- "I don't deserve to look as good as I could". Sigh. Then adding in the restrictions, a diet / getting ripped becomes another thing to fail at, hence another thing to feel guilty about.

            I think Emmie made some great suggestions and I think finding the right therapist is amazing, but it's something that you have to stick with for quite a while to see results.

            Originally posted by Leida View Post
            I feel very much the same way, but I am trying to come to accept that the real goal is not to be ripped and beautiful, but to be happy. And if being happy means not having a perfect body, but enjoying an apple or buckwheat or something else, to the last bite, so be it. I have read Susan Alberts' books on Mindful Eating maybe 3 or 4 times each, and I resist less and less to what she is saying. Judgments, mindless dieting, cravings - that just leads to harm. I am more and more leaning towards trying to forget everything bit the basics, that the whole, unaltered foods are the most comforting, but food is not the ultimate comfort. I think that dieting made me worship food as a source of happiness, both due to chronic hunger and to the restrictions. I don't think I want to live the rest of my life in fear of eating something wrong.
            Love your approach Leida, as always
            Last edited by YogaBare; 01-11-2013, 08:58 AM.
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

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            • #21
              to the OP---you truly do have youth on your side---I wish I had been 20 and know what you know now. On these forums we can all talk from our own personal experiences, but that doenst mean it will be your experience if followed. I also come from a family line of depression and am very aware of falling into that. Another hurdle for me is I'm epileptic as well. 6 years ago I switched to a gluten free diet and really started to feel a lot better mentally and physically...lost my pregnancy weight that wouldnt shake as well. I've cycled in and out of grain-free for the past 2 years or so. I must say that I get rid of my anxiety and any slight depression when I give up the grains. However, if I put grains back in---I usually feel fine for a good week or so, but then things start creeping up on me---anxiety, weight gain, moodiness, etc. The problem is that this isnt immediate for me when grains are reintroduced so it's hard for me to want to BLAME the grains...but alas, I'm much better without.

              We are all trial and error and fine tuning and tweaking as we go here...hoping you find a path that works for you!
              Check out my blog on nature and nurture!
              http://thewoodsygal.com/

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              • #22
                Originally posted by solstice View Post
                On these forums we can all talk from our own personal experiences, but that doenst mean it will be your experience if followed. I also come from a family line of depression and am very aware of falling into that.
                I agree. There are so many different forms of depression, and so many root causes. For some people it's chemical, for other people it's experiential (deep traumas, usually from childhood), for others it's situational. Some people have combinations. So there's no one path to wellness, though I do think that for those who've had trauma then eating well only helps so much.
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • #23
                  Having had issues with my weight, been anorexic and still suffering from low-level body dysmorphia, I understand what you mean. You want to eat naturally, intuitively, but it doesn't work. So you control what you eat. But that makes you scared you're falling back into ED again. The control doesn't feel right. It feels obsessive. And it scares you.

                  My fiance helped me understand it, though. Everyone healthy obsesses a little about their food. And it's OK. Because you're replacing a bad habit with a good one. Yes, it's still a HABIT, an OBSESSION, but it's helping you. For example, I went from fat-avoiding and calorie-counting obsessively to obsessing over balancing my water and fat intake and over keeping "cheats" minimal. I went from obsessively wanting to see more ribs (a sign of how "well" I was doing), to obsessively wanting bigger muscles. No, the mindset isn't healthy. But we've managed to put it in an environment where it can LEAD to health.

                  I don't think you can ever fix it. Not truly. I don't think you can ever look at a bit of fat on your thigh and not think "yuck" or ever avoid wondering if you've eaten "too much" fat. But you can override it. Obsess, but obsess about POSITIVE things, things that do you GOOD. And yes, you'll have ED thoughts, but you can tell yourself, the second you have them: "No, that's wrong. My thigh is fine and the fats I ate were good for me. It's not me thinking that. It's the voice of habit and the voice of worry and I won't listen to it."
                  I'm having a bad day with it today because I ate over 2700kcals. The voice is telling me how unhealthy it is, how fat I'll get... And I have to keep reminding myself that I did a lot of exercise and a lot of mental work, which makes for a need for more kcals. I keep reminding myself that I'm eating what my body wants, that this isn't everyday, it isn't a binge. I keep reminding myself that one or two days a week don't matter individually. It's hard, but it's POSSIBLE.

                  You'll soon find the thoughts happening less frequently, or good thoughts happening more frequently.
                  It's a long road and you probably won't come out of it thinking about food like other people do. But you'll come out of it loving food, loving yourself and only having the occassional doubt.

                  If you ever have concerns or fears, or just want to talk in general, feel free to PM me. I know where you've been because I'm not really out of it myself. And, whilst I'm no expert, I know it can help to have someone to talk to about these things.

                  Be strong and brave.
                  --
                  Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

                  --
                  I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
                  I'd apologize, but...

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
                    My parents insist that I go to counseling but I don't find it that helpful... I'm a musician and find making music a much better use of my free time and so the counseling appointments mostly make me resent my parents, not to mention my counselor isn't into nutrition and just asks me to tell him about my life which I don't really feel like doing... it's not my thing. I have nothing against him but nothing to say to him.

                    I have a really supportive boyfriend who is learning about eating and living healthily alongside me. I was mostly just wondering if others who have given up foods find that forcing themselves to stop eating things they like does more harm than good to their mental state... I start to feel like I'm both the depriver and the deprived and not sure who to identify with... Good to see others' thoughts on this matter though!
                    You need to find a different counselor. I work with counselors in a fairly good sized practice of about 25 clinicians. If one person is not a fit, we find someone else in the practice that may be a better fit for them or refer them to someone else in the community that would be more appropriate.

                    It sounds to me like you may have some OCD issues at play which can tie in with the eating disorder. There are good counselors out there that would also help focus on your nutrition - because yes, it absolutely plays a part in how you feel mentally as well as physically - and there are counselors out there who are also musicians. There are a couple of my therapists who are also musicians and they will play their guitars with their clients. I have one who works with kids who has been known to go play basketball with them in the gym (we're a Christian counseling service and we operate out of a church).

                    Above all, though, therapy is only good and effective if you agree that you have issues that a therapist can help you with. If you think this guy is a waste of your time, then you are indeed wasting your time and money on your copay. I would encourage you to do some looking around and find someone else who may be a better fit for you, though, as I think it could help.

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