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  • Please help me help my husband lose weight

    As I have mentioned around this forum before, I came to MDA from a FSND reboot. My husband and I did the reboot because we saw the commercial on tv, we watched the movie, and then my husband insisted on trying it. We did, sort of (we only did 5 days of juice-only in the two weeks) and my husband lost about 20lbs and I lost about 10lbs. The weight loss was a happy thing, but I found juicing and fruit&vegetable-only eating to be rather unsustainable. Which is how I ended up here. We've been doing primal eating for about the last month.

    The thing is, my husband is no longer losing weight, and is suggesting that we go back to juicing. I, on the other hand, am still losing weight and size (mypantsarefallingoff), but I don't need to lose any more weight.

    Some stats:
    DH: 6'1", started at ~270 pre-FSND, dropped to ~248 post-FSND, now around ~252. Wears size 42 pants, but under the belly. Straight around is a few inches more. We haven't been measuring it. It is now noticeably smaller than it was when he was 270.
    Me: 5'5", started ~138 pre-FSND, dropped to ~128 post-FSND, now dropping below 120.

    What we eat:
    DH: Breakfast is 3 eggs, about two slices of bacon (or sausage), sometimes three. Two cups of coffee with raw honey and half&half or cream. I usually put some veggie on the side - a tomato or such, or inside the eggs, like broccoli, spinach, or peppers. Lunch is sometimes cold sliced meat (about a cup) with a salad. Sometimes he puts about 2 cups whole milk yogurt in a bowl and puts a drizzle of honey and a handful of walnuts on top. Dinner is usually around a half pound of meat (or two fillets of salmon if it's fish) and a couple vegetables, green or orange, sometimes both. For snacks he noshes on cheese sticks, almonds, sometimes fruit*, and sometimes sprouted bread**, if I'm on top of things I'll have some mini-meatloaf in the fridge or remind him to make some hard-boiled eggs. He often drinks whole milk (which is sometimes raw milk) throughout the day when he is thirsty.

    Me: Breakfast is two eggs, one or two slices of bacon, and a cup of coffee with stevia and some coconut milk or half-and-half. This keeps me full until ~3pm. At three I have some bone broth mixed with some vegetable broth (still have dessicated veggies in my freezer from FSND, and they make some good broth), or some yogurt mixed with preserves, cheese, or some dried figs, or leftovers. Dinner is the same as my husband, but about 2/3 the amount. Unless you count the 3pm mini-nosh as a snack, I don't really snack. And I do not drink milk.

    *This is sometimes a banana, which I buy for our 5yo who needs to gain weight. But I've now got 5yo in the habit of eating a small apple as his "snack" at school, so I haven't bought bananas this week, and might continue not buying, as my husband lacks the self-control to not eat them.

    **The sprouted bread is also for the 5yo. I learned about WAP a few years ago, and right now it's there in small amounts to make sure Little Mr. Picky gets his calories.

    My husband, as I have mentioned elsewhere, is a recovering sugar-addict and carbaholic. His family's diet consisted largely of sugar on top of carbs or deep fried potatoes. Sometimes the former made up both breakfast and lunch and the latter was the entirety of dinner. I have read what Mark says about switching the body from sugar-burning to fat-burning, but I think that maybe I am there, but my husband isn't. Every few hours my husband whines "I'm so hungry!" and then starts moaning about in the kitchen (my husband largely works from home). That's where the cheese & nuts, and also the fruit and bread, comes in. I don't feel like cooking when I'm not hungry, and I'm not going to act as a short-order cook every other hour during the day. I keep telling him that I think it's the snacking that has stalled his weight loss, but telling a hungry person they can't eat is cruel, and he insists that he really is constantly hungry throughout the day.

    Another problem is that my husband's brain is hardwired to CW, and he entirely suspicious of "the "wise" elites are wrong!" sort of argument. I had him watch the lecture on the lipid hypothesis and sugar by the Fat Head guy, and he largely agreed with the him. But still, he keeps on asking me, "are you sure eating this many eggs is okay?" "Are you sure all this meat isn't bad for my heart?" And my suggestions to cook with bacon fat or drink bone broth are met with "what? no! nothing weird!" I snuck chicken livers into the taco salad meat earlier this week and he is still harping on about it. "Are you sure we were supposed to eat that?" "Are you sure it won't make me sick?" I told him to read Mark's book, and he skimmed through it and came back with, "I don't know, it sounds like a new-earth creationist conspiracy theory. The FSND movie had a nutritionist and a doctor. I have a hard time believing the consensus could be so wrong." I should also explain that my husband has atrial fibrillation, and is a hypochondriac who is constantly afraid of dying from cancer. He nearly blew up his heart as a teenager smoking too much pot, so he is wary of self-experimentation and doing anything against the grain when it comes to his health.

    So, my questions:

    #1: Is there a good doctor/nutritionist who can explain why primal eating is healthy, and preferably has a good video on youtube? Bonus points if they never mention the words government, regulation, or common opinion.

    I did recently order Enig's book on fats through my local library, but it might take a while, since the entire county has only one copy. I did play the youtube clip of Nourishing our Children earlier today, trying the sell him the concept of eating meat is healthy, since Price was a doctor. He wants to see the whole movie, but his main question from watching the first 20 mins was "can you get some of that bread?" (he was referring to the rye sourdough bread that the Swiss village ate).

    #2: My hypothesis is that his body is still craving glucose, which is why he snacks now and did okay with juicing (and why he still craves bread). As I understand it, to really lose weight with Primal you have to make the switch to fat burning. Given the current diet, and his hang-ups about eating more meat and fat, what is a good plan to flip that switch?

    #3: Or is the problem simply that his main meals don't provide enough calories? I know he needs to eat more calories than me, even to lose weight, but since I eat so little it is hard for me to judge that accurately. But he usually says that he is full after dinner, and yet still grabs a cheese-stick before bed.

    I've been considering ways to remove glucose from his diet completely, like omitting the honey and the dairy. But this would be rather drastic to him, as he has always had raw honey in his diet since his father is a beekeeper, and as a northern-European with some Gypsy mixed in, I believe he definitely does have the ability to digest milk, which he does frequently. To cut these things out we would need to replace them with something "weird," like stevia and kombucha, and that will be a huge hassle to him. (But no, cutting them out to drink the juice of raw beets and kale is not, go figure). But if I can convince him that the hassle will produce good result he maybe might be willing to give it a shot. But if it doesn't work I'll start looking like the boy who cried wolf.

    Maybe he just needs a strict eating plan, since his ability to gauge his own hunger is broken. About how many calories should he eat in a day? What macronutrient proportions would help flip the switch? Given that I think this will entail a diet high in fat, what "not-weird" foods can I sneak in to help him hit his daily amount of fat? If there is an eating plan somewhere designed by a nutritionist that would really help. He's only lightly active, we take walks a couple times a week, but otherwise he's pretty sedentary.

    Finally, has anyone here seen the whole Nourishing our Children movie? Does Fallon explain the health benefits of bone broths and liver in it? If she does, it might be worth buying...

    Arghh, sorry for the long post. But this is really frustrating. I'm really doing great with this WOE, besides losing weight I have a ton of energy and my skin is great. But my husband really does need to lose some pounds, and for some reason this just isn't working right for him.

  • #2
    He's going to have to connect the dots for himself. Just be a good role model and when he's ready he'll join you. If he is in relatively good health and isn't on a ton of pills, he will probably not see the need for big changes. For me, I was OK with high blood pressure meds, statins for cholesterol, thyroid meds, occasional gout attacks, fatty liver disease, but when they told me I had diabetes I finally had to take action. 2 years later, I'm off all meds and down 85lbs. Everybody's tolerance for poor health is different, but until he's decided to commit there's no use browbeating him over it.

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    • #3
      The thing is, otzi, is that he knows that his overweight is unhealthy, he knows that his blood results showed that he was pre-hyperglycemic and that he is pre-hypertension, and he wants to eat healthy and be healthy and avoid drugs at all costs. But so far he is not seeing any proof that eating primal results in being healthy or achieving a healthy weight.

      Course, his opinion on "healthy" is also pretty CW. When I told him to stop eating bananas his response was "I thought bananas were healthy!" He said the same thing about soy.... Yes, he needs to educate himself, but he can't read nutrition info and connect the dots for himself. Which is why I am still looking for something on youtube or a documentary which lays it all out without making it sound like Masonic-secret-knowledge.

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      • #4
        Hi Sarah!

        I don't have all the answers for you - perhaps not even half - but what I DO have is a sedentary, SAD-raised, overweight, northern-Euro-stock (Dutch-German), always-hungry man in this house...

        Said man, henceforth to be called Hubby, is doing Primal with me. By "doing Primal with me", I mean that he is Primal because I (the chief cook and bottle washer) am currently cooking that way, and as he hates to cook, that is how he is eating. He does have some motivation to be decently Primal because the huge pot belly got on his nerves, too, but he was kinda holding back on the decision to do this until he could see for himself whether Primal food was 1. tasty, 2. in big enough portions for his liking, 3. decently cheap, and 4. whether I could sustain this.

        As a former sugar-burner chick myself, I agree that your guy probably still needs to do the adjustment to fat-burning mode. A lot of that hungry-often thing went away after I passed through my carby flu. My best suggestions at the moment are:

        - make best friends with your crock pot, keep it always full of a decently fatty-meaty stew/soup/broth with some veg of some kind, and direct him to it for a bowl of real food instead of bread and cheese and nuts and fruit when he is snacky. Freeze the leftovers, and make another one. In time, you will have a stack of ready-to-eat Primal meals for When Life Happens, and your man won't have gotten grains, excess dairy, and excess sugar

        - cut out the drinking milk as a beverage thing, but let him keep the other cultured full-fat dairy for the nonce. I haven't been able to kick the dairy thing either, but now I concentrate on getting the best quality I can find. That actually helps. (I am also northern Euro and was raised on cultured dairy...)

        - don't sneak liver any more. My guy doesn't take well to deception - it makes him wonder what else I am up to. If you want to give him liver, learn to make a really good pate

        - be patient. Your man isn't really on board with the Primal yet, and the only thing you can do is to just keep on cooking Primal to the best of your ability, and explaining the Primal rationales as the conversation comes up (like Chinese water torture). Hubby has an Iron Will that his easy-going manner hides, and I get nowhere with him with a hard sell - he responds better by seeing my example over time

        - be sure the industrial and seed oils are out of your house, and stock up on pastured butter, lard, coconut oil, save your pan drippings, and the like, and use them liberally when cooking. That one change has made a huge difference in how I feel, and how the rest of the house feels, and how hungry we all get how soon after a meal. His northern Euro background should love butter - put it on everything!

        - I use honey as well. We don't go overboard with it - we use a touch here and there as a sweetener instead of white sugar, but since his father is a beekeeper, and I do believe unfiltered, local honey is a treasure, I wouldn't mess with this. I think it is okay for your uses

        Sorry it isn't more, but this is where I am at with hubby. At the moment I am concentrating on finding recipes, changing over my cupboards, creating new habits, locating local and pastured sources of foods, and calming the hubby. At some time, I may do the measure-macros thing, but my time for that is not yet, and yet Hubby and I both need new pants and belts. You are only one month in - give it more time.

        The Primal isn't a quick-fix diet, even though lots of people see dramatic beginning weight losses here - it is a plan for better lifelong health, and I think if you should treat it as such. Perhaps a better concentration for you two would be to see how much more energy you all have, or how this/that odd ache or pain disappears, or how long he is not hungry after a meal.
        I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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        • #5
          Gary Taubes has a presentation on Good Calories Bad Calories that your husband might find interesting. You can find that on YouTube - sorry I don't have the link for you.
          Height - 5'8"
          SW - 191
          CW - 162
          GW - 155

          Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by SarahW View Post
            Which is why I am still looking for something on youtube or a documentary which lays it all out without making it sound like Masonic-secret-knowledge.
            Jack Lalanne - Sugarholics - YouTube

            Here is the video that got my Dad to start eating right. It's from the 50's. My Dad is 67 and probably more primal than most on this forum, but has never heard the term "Primal Blueprint". I told him how I eat, let him see my transformation over the last couple years, help him with choices in foods, and showed him this video. After watching it he said something like, 'If we've known this since the 50's why are we just doing it now?"

            For me, primal eating is about eating whole foods and getting labwork done on a regular basis. I watched my triglycerides go from 400+ untreated to 35. HDL cholesterol went from 20 to 50. Blood pressure from 150/90 (with meds) to 110/60 without meds. I eat bananas all summer long. I eat potatoes in the fall. I had watermelon, fish, and asparagus just now for lunch.

            Good luck! And good job for lookin' after your man...

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            • #7
              My suggestion would be getting him to read "Why we get fat" by Taubes. I think it's an easier read than Good Calories/Bad Calories, and it will help him understand that his 'hunger' is from those bananas and other carbs he's eating.

              If he understands the principles, he'll be able to make better choices. He can eat heartily on Primal, and he'll lose weight if he keeps his carbs in check.

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              • #8
                hey Sarah

                I forgot to mention my name (had to get the daughter off the school bus...)

                Nora Gedgaudas wrote "Primal Body, Primal Mind", and she is a Certified Nutritional Therapist.
                I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Crabbcakes, I think we are life-twins, your husband sounds exactly like mine, lol.

                  Unfortunately, he does not eat pate. The "snack bar" he would get his french-fries-for-dinner meal from had it, but he always skipped it. He does like butter, but he never had real butter before he came to America. His mother would always buy the tasteless, white margarine crap. She also bought milk that could be kept in the cupboard. The really sad thing about this is that he grew up in traditional farm country, with breeds of ancient cows, herds of sheep, and other animals galore, but other than the honey from his dad's bees, no one ever ate traditional whole animal foods. His first job was with the largest employer around - a company that produced powdered milk and shipped it around the world.

                  The crock pot is a good idea, but he always complains that soups and stews don't feed him. I do not understand this, but he insists that it is so. I add lots of fatty broth and coconut milk into it, but he is still not convinced. He is also doubtful about leftovers, since his mother's ideas of leftovers was just leaving the pans of food on the stove and then warming them back up for lunch the next day. His mother, if you haven't noticed, isn't much of a cook. On the good side, my husband far prefers my cooking. On the bad side, he has bad and nonsensical eating habits. But frozen portions, maybe, I think he can put them in a pan and warm them up, I think.

                  Put a hold on "Primal Body, Primal Mind" through my library. There is also only one copy of this in the whole county. Maybe this stuff really is Masonic-secret-knowledge.

                  What does your household drink through the day if you don't drink milk? I encourage my husband to drink water and tea, but his compliance is spotty. I was thinking of making kefir because he likes it (though what he grew up drinking was also able to be stored in the cupboard). But I was thinking that it also contains calories so not much difference, but all the milk sugar is eaten up by the culture, yes? hmmm....

                  Big thanks to everyone for the ideas and resources. I will review it all and see if something will help!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SarahW View Post
                    Arghh, sorry for the long post. But this is really frustrating. I'm really doing great with this WOE, besides losing weight I have a ton of energy and my skin is great. But my husband really does need to lose some pounds, and for some reason this just isn't working right for him.
                    Why do you bother giving him all the details? Why don't you just take on the role as chef in the house and he'll eat what you prepare. Why freak him out with all the details? My husband is the "everything in moderation" camp. But now that he's losing a bit of weight, he's starting to catch the wave. My husband is a marathon runner and was hoping to lose 10lbs before the NY Marathon in October. Well, his belt is tighter and his tummy is tighter and now he's asking me how many eggs I want for breakfast. Voila! Men don't need the details -- they just need to see results.
                    ----------------------------------------
                    F, 48, 5'10"
                    Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
                    Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

                    Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SarahW View Post
                      I should also explain that my husband has atrial fibrillation, and is a hypochondriac who is constantly afraid of dying from cancer.
                      God, he sounds like mine. Are you sure you aren't me?

                      You've actually gotten further with yours than I have with mine. Fricken' hypochondriacs drive me up a wall. I think they really like the drama of being so sick. Mine was even going to have heart valve ablation or some dramatic thing next week for his heart arrhythmia but now he has to postpone because he's got some white blood cell problem and thinks he's got autoimmune or leukemia. He probably does have autoimmune because he's got arthritis, inflammation, IBS, all kinds of pain, brain fog that has him thinking he's got early stage Alzheimers and he can't sleep. But even as sick as he is, he Just. Won't. Take. Matters. Into. His. Own. Hands. Doctors and pills have all the answers. Nutrition is woo woo. Even as I've transformed right before his eyes, he scoffs and sneers at any suggestion that nutrition and fitness can lead to health. I even feed him the exalted Mediterranean diet for crying out loud but he can't even see that. No, to him the Mediterranean diet means pasta and I'm trying to kill him eating "all that fat". What fat? For god's sake it's steamed vegetables and fish 90% of the time! I only serve liver, bone marrow and fatty meats to myself. I am so sick and tired of his wanking. Sorry for letting loose with my own.

                      Anyway, Your man isn't losing weight because it sounds like he's eating way too much. He eats or drinks all day long. His digestive system has no rest, his insulin never comes down long enough to let the fat out before he shoots it back up with a snack.

                      I don't have an answer for you. I think that Robb Wolf is right and the only answer is divorce. Or just shut up and get ready to wipe their asses in a few years after they've totally degenerated.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SarahW View Post
                        He does like butter, but he never had real butter before he came to America. His mother would always buy the tasteless, white margarine crap. She also bought milk that could be kept in the cupboard. The really sad thing about this is that he grew up in traditional farm country, with breeds of ancient cows, herds of sheep, and other animals galore, but other than the honey from his dad's bees, no one ever ate traditional whole animal foods. His first job was with the largest employer around - a company that produced powdered milk and shipped it around the world.
                        Oooh - now you have me interested. What country? I have had the cupboard milk before.

                        My MIL is a reluctant cook, too, even though she is a fine woman otherwise. She loves her kids dearly, and fed them to keep them from starvation, but had some annoying habits: all leftovers got dumped into a "casserole" and heated in the oven... voila, dinner. Guess how Hubby felt about "casseroles", even though mine are specific made-exclusively-from-fresh-ingredients dishes.

                        Hubby and siblings were also prevented from going into the fridge at all during their growing-up years. Mealtimes and snacks happened only on a schedule, and were portioned. Hubby ate like a released prisoner for years into our marriage - as much as possible in as short a time.

                        Hubby thought mushrooms were disgusting and wouldn't eat them. It took me a year to figure out that his mom used canned shrooms exclusively. Once I explained the differences between fresh portobellos and canned booger-balls, he tried them and now is an enthusiastic eater - of the fresh ones.

                        You do have your work cut out for you, but if I can make headway with mine, I think you will have success with yours. He isn't refusing completely, just really unsure and faced with a wife who is making demands on ingrained gawdawful eating habits, I think. (Correct me if I am wrong) Are you two newlyweds?

                        Now Hubby has almost 2 decades of my cooking behind him, and can't eat for long at his mom's place, much as he loves her. Last thing she did: thawed frozen shrimp under running water (placed in a colander), and she kept the water on until the shrimp were thawed - and by then all the taste had run down the drain.

                        Luckily, Hubby is a huge consumer of water. He drinks so much water, sometimes I get a little scared of it. He will down 3 large glasses waiting for dinner at a restaurant, and then 3 to 4 more during dinner, and then another one to top off. Seriously. So I have no problems there.
                        I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'd guess it might be a combination of things, and it definitely sounds like he's eating too much. Everything sounded fine until you mentioned all the snacking and drinking milk all the time.

                          What really worked for me was trying out the leptin reset (MY LEPTIN PRESCRIPTION | Jack Kruse). I started making sure I had really large breakfasts with around 50 grams of protein, watched total carb intake, and completely cut out any sort of sugar or artificial stuff. Over time that drastically started changing how I felt. I would no longer get hungry until way past my normal lunchtime, I didn't need to snack anymore, and my sense of hunger has gradually normalized.

                          I also found it very helpful to record what I was eating. Snacking can really add up quickly, especially when it's things like nuts that are massively high in calories, and milk that's also high in sugars.

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                          • #14
                            He might be snacking too much. A couple of handful of almonds a day can really sneak up on you if you're not careful, and the cheese sticks could be running 3-400 calories a day if he's not watching his portion size. I know we don't really like calorie-counting on primal, but for people trying to lose weight, ultimately it is the quantity as well as the quality if the calories ingested that makes a difference, and your husband could be eating 1000 extra calories a day munching on snacks, undoing the good of his otherwise mostly primal diet.
                            Last edited by Damiana; 09-08-2012, 03:48 AM.
                            F 28/5'4/100 lbs

                            "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Louisa655 View Post
                              Why don't you just take on the role as chef in the house and he'll eat what you prepare. .
                              Louisa, I think this is great advice. I do this, and my hubby certainly does eat it. I have even taken to making him a packed lunch with the leftovers and he will eat those too. I still have my work cut out to make sure the portions are satisfying enough so that he doesn't feel the urge to seek out junk in between times.

                              His cholesterol and triglyceride results were scary, but I'm the one who is scared, he doesn't seem to care about them, and he does not want to lose weight for fear of looking weedy (these days you can't tell what a slim build he really is - which to his way of thinking is a good thing).

                              So I just keep on with the good food as much as possible, at least it's delicious and must be helping his health, I have noticed a few positive differences such as less snoring, lol, even though he is not actively on board with the programme, so to speak.
                              Annie Ups the Ante
                              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread117711.html

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