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Nutrition Questions Fat/Protein for an athletic type/celiac disease

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  • Nutrition Questions Fat/Protein for an athletic type/celiac disease

    I have alot of issues! I have celiac disease, soy intolerance and lactose intolerance, the main reason I went to a paleo diet is because many celiacs have success with eliminating all grains. It's worked really well for me, with some minor issues...and I'm hoping some of you can help me.

    While I don't "train" for events/racing, I'm pretty active outdoors, I work out every morning either lifting weights, cardio or spin class. In addition, Mountain bike bike twice a week, climb once a week, hike, backpack...everything Colorado has to offer basically. I just don't sit still very well. I find that since going paleo and eliminating grains while it helped my digestion, made my moods worse so I'm wondering if I'm doing it right and I feel depressed/short tempered alot more. I have anti-depressants that used to work great and now don't do anything to help even had the meds reassessed. I'm also down to 110lbs at 5'6, seem to have stabilized at that weight. I also feel like my legs weigh a hundred pounds everytime I start a work out...it always goes away and my endurance is amazing but getting there is obnixously tough.

    Few things that I'm wondering...do I follow the paleo for athletes...do I need that level of nutrition? I can't really follow it with my stomach issues. Second, I can't really have grains because of the stomach so adding more fruit...will that work? Maybe just sweet potatos?

    I also wondered how many fat and protein gram servings do you typically see in a paleo meal. I have always been taught, you only need 4-6oz protein at a meal and one additional serving (5g) of fat (avocado, oil, etc) per meal. So that is basically what I just go with because I've done it for so long. Maybe if I bumped up my fat servings per meal...would that help my mood? How much protein (oz) do you eat in a meal and how many fat servings would you say? I'm not a big fan of animal fat and can't do butter.

    Any guidance is much appreciated!
    Thank you.

  • #2
    anyone please?

    I didn't recieve any responses on this. And I'm also wondering...what do you count in your % of carbs...are we talking starchy vegs like squash or real grains?

    Any help is really appreciated.
    Thank you.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi amyb!

      How long have you been doing Paleo? Can you post a sample eating day for you?
      It is always too early to quit.
      Went primal- 02/25/12, height: 5'6", starting weight: 143.0, current weight: 133.8

      "Doubt never stops. Neither do you."- Prove People Wrong.
      http://www.provepeoplewrong.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        I just read a book called "The Coconut Oil Miracle" by Bruce Fife. Coconut oil will give you lots of energy and has been successful in helping those with digestive issues. Check it out.

        Comment


        • #5
          September 6th, 2012 Write in your diary: How do you feel today?

          breakfast
          Frozen Spinach
          A Mushroom 1/2 cup brocolli
          1/4 Avocado
          Kirkland Signature Smoked Sockeye Salmon 1oz
          3/4 c All Whites Egg Whites

          lunch salad
          1tbsp flaxseed
          Planters Mixed Nuts 2oz (eaten throughout the day as a snack)
          Costco Kirkland Canned Chicken 2oz
          Salad with lettuce, spinach, mushroom, tomato, carrots, sometimes a beet, cucumber
          Usually snack on frozen grapes probably at least a cup of day, a bit of cantaloupe

          Dinner
          Tilapia 4oz
          Birds Eye Brussels Sprouts 2cups
          Squash, Winter, Butternut 2 cups
          1 tsp. Bertolli Olive Oil

          artic zone protein ice cream with chopped nuts and blueberries on top. Cause I cheat I know its probably not paleo but its one of the few ice creams I can eat!


          Thank you!

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you mean you started Paleo on the 6th? Fatigue and bad moods as you start is totally normal. Working out that first week or two is brutal. Also, are there peanuts in your mixed nuts and are you sure on the serving sizes? 1oz of salmon is nothing.

            Other than that, your fat intake looks low to me and carbs look high. I am also female, 5'6", active and gluten intolerant. I lift 3x a week and do an hour of sports/cardio/walking 5-6x a week. There are days on the weekend I play 3 full hockey games. I choose to track what I eat and average about 50% of my calories from fat, 25-30% protien, 20-25% carb. I have found that it it easy to undershoot on fat.

            -Is there a reason you don't eat whole eggs? The yolk has all the fat, 3/4 of a cup of egg whites have less than 0.5g of fat.
            -Do you eat red meat at all?

            If you adjust your macros, and give your body a little bit to adjust to the diet, you should be fine. It is really helpful if you don't cheat in the beginning though!
            It is always too early to quit.
            Went primal- 02/25/12, height: 5'6", starting weight: 143.0, current weight: 133.8

            "Doubt never stops. Neither do you."- Prove People Wrong.
            http://www.provepeoplewrong.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              fix

              Originally posted by c_bolton12 View Post
              Do you mean you started Paleo on the 6th? Fatigue and bad moods as you start is totally normal. Working out that first week or two is brutal. Also, are there peanuts in your mixed nuts and are you sure on the serving sizes? 1oz of salmon is nothing.

              Other than that, your fat intake looks low to me and carbs look high. I am also female, 5'6", active and gluten intolerant. I lift 3x a week and do an hour of sports/cardio/walking 5-6x a week. There are days on the weekend I play 3 full hockey games. I choose to track what I eat and average about 50% of my calories from fat, 25-30% protien, 20-25% carb. I have found that it it easy to undershoot on fat.

              -Is there a reason you don't eat whole eggs? The yolk has all the fat, 3/4 of a cup of egg whites have less than 0.5g of fat.
              -Do you eat red meat at all?

              If you adjust your macros, and give your body a little bit to adjust to the diet, you should be fine. It is really helpful if you don't cheat in the beginning though!
              I've actually this way for awhile now, I cut and paste daily plate entry sorry about that. What do you mean by my carbs are high? What are you counting as carbs?

              I do eat eggs sometimes, I go back and forth between eggs over easy and egg omletes and add avocado to breakfast always. I really don't like red meat much, never liked the flavor of it. I do eat pork. I workout every morning doing at least an hour cardio or spin class, 2-3x week lifting weights, rock climb at least once a week and then mountain bike 2-3 times a week in the afternoons. Weekends include long day rides, hikes, 14ers, backpacking. I eat alot of nuts and raisins and veggie chips as snacks on the trail.

              I'm also curious to know what the "zone of misery" is all about, I heard about it but can't really find much information on it. I wonder if my protein is too high, I snack on mini sausages, fresh deli meat and veggies.

              Thoughts?

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree that you seem low on fat intake...pork and tilapia are not fatty meats either.

                Perhaps cut back on your chronic cardio too. It's one thing to take in the beautiful outdoors but dont overstress yourself with constant chronic cardio, but that's just my opinion.
                Check out my blog on nature and nurture!
                http://thewoodsygal.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  amyb - are you actually tracking your food on a site that calculates your calories and macro nutrient ratios? I agree w/ the two other posters about high carbs/low fat. You're getting carbs from everything you're eating minus the meat and olive oil. For fun, I plugged in your daily food into my livestrong profile to get more of an idea of your calorie intake and ratios. It's obviously not completely accurate because I don't have measurements for everything you ate, but an approximate nutrient breakdown is 26% protein, 35% fat, and 39% carbs. (98 grams protein, 59 grams fat, 148 grams carbs) 98 grams of protein seems a bit high for your bodyweight. According to Mark, you should be getting between .7 and 1 grams of protein per pound of lean bodyweight. Even if you're only at 15% body fat, that'd give you a max requirement of 93 grams per day. I'd shoot for ratios more like what c_bolton mentioned, but you could probably go even higher on the fat end of that. If you're unsure of what is counting towards your carbs etc, I'd plug all your food into a calculator and pay attention to how many grams you get out of different kinds of foods. Almost everything is going to contain some carbs, and so you may find you rack them up more quickly than you'd thought.

                  Here's a quote from paleobird on her thread EAT MORE FAT. I'd recommend reading that thread for some really good info.
                  "I think where a lot of Primals go wrong is in embracing all those yummy primal meats so much that we overdo the protein portion of the equation and thereby knock ourselves out of ketosis. Then, still trying to hold down the carbs, we get stuck in what Dr. Peter Attia of The Eating Academy calls the "Zone of Misery", not enough carbs to run on glucose but too much protein to allow for efficient metabolism of fat. Stuck in the middle and generally feeling like crap."

                  Good luck to you!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Moll View Post
                    amyb - are you actually tracking your food on a site that calculates your calories and macro nutrient ratios? I agree w/ the two other posters about high carbs/low fat. You're getting carbs from everything you're eating minus the meat and olive oil. For fun, I plugged in your daily food into my livestrong profile to get more of an idea of your calorie intake and ratios. It's obviously not completely accurate because I don't have measurements for everything you ate, but an approximate nutrient breakdown is 26% protein, 35% fat, and 39% carbs. (98 grams protein, 59 grams fat, 148 grams carbs) 98 grams of protein seems a bit high for your bodyweight. According to Mark, you should be getting between .7 and 1 grams of protein per pound of lean bodyweight. Even if you're only at 15% body fat, that'd give you a max requirement of 93 grams per day. I'd shoot for ratios more like what c_bolton mentioned, but you could probably go even higher on the fat end of that. If you're unsure of what is counting towards your carbs etc, I'd plug all your food into a calculator and pay attention to how many grams you get out of different kinds of foods. Almost everything is going to contain some carbs, and so you may find you rack them up more quickly than you'd thought.

                    Here's a quote from paleobird on her thread EAT MORE FAT. I'd recommend reading that thread for some really good info.
                    "I think where a lot of Primals go wrong is in embracing all those yummy primal meats so much that we overdo the protein portion of the equation and thereby knock ourselves out of ketosis. Then, still trying to hold down the carbs, we get stuck in what Dr. Peter Attia of The Eating Academy calls the "Zone of Misery", not enough carbs to run on glucose but too much protein to allow for efficient metabolism of fat. Stuck in the middle and generally feeling like crap."

                    Good luck to you!
                    I think you are counting my vegetable consumption as carbs I would assume? Being as athletic as I am...which I don't intend to cut back on as it is really important to me and my mental health...and its almost ski season... Don't I need those carbs? I'm also not looking to lose weight here...just keep it on. I loosely follow Paleo because I know grains don't work for me. So I occassionally eat dark chocolate and I'm sure that would count as fat/carb. I don't want to be too strict about this. My diet is strict as it is without me making things more complicated. My main concern is my moods...I don't want to feel depressed and anxious all the time...so I'm worried about that zone of misery and think you might be right, maybe too much protein? Is there any other resources where I can read more about that? the consumption of too much protein?

                    Also, if I was going to add more fat to meals...how many more fat servings do I need? I eat one per meal right now. 1/4 an avocado for example or a tbsp of flaxseed. Do I need to measure this stuff? I have a tendency to be OCD about food because of my digestive issues, it sucks. I used to track my food obsessively to figure out what was hurting my stomach so I do well when someone tells me how many servings of each group I need per meal or what makes the most sense for an athletic type.

                    Thanks for your help on this, I really appreciate you guys trying to help me sort through all this.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi amyb. Thinking you need all those carbs is still CW thinking in my opinion. Like I said in my previous post, I am also very active and in addition to the above, walk everywhere. You are lighter than me, by a bit more than 20 pounds, but if you are as active as you are, you could eat more along with changing your macros. Yesterday was a pretty typical day for me if you want some reference, which I think everything I ate you could eat too, besides the sour cream:

                      Breakfast:
                      0.5lb pork shoulder, apple
                      Lunch:
                      Beanless chili with whole fat sour cream and cheese, cup of broccoli, and piece of dark chocolate
                      Exercise: 3.4 mile run with a friend. Little slower than my normal pace, wore a heart rate monitor, burned 510 calories
                      Dinner:
                      Half rotisserie Chicken (didn't quite finish it), greek salad, and 2 cups of mixed berries (strawberries, blueberries, raspberries)

                      In sum I had 1,770 calories, 104g of carb (24%), 103g of fat (52%), 106g of protien (24%). (I restrict calories some because I still want to lose a few pounds. With my BMR and activity level yesterday I could have eaten just north of 2200)

                      I have found that I dont really need all the carbs I thought I did to maintain my performance in athletics. It was hard for a month or so to transition, I felt sluggish in cardio and lifting was more difficult, but once my body adjusted I've been so much better. My muscle recovery is faster and my endurance is better. Adding fat and cutting carbs was really hard for me at the beginning, you can check PaleoBird's thread EAT MOAR FAT or let me know if you want help on adjusting your meals. You can still be an awesome athlete and eat paleo, but if you want to be a fat burner, you need to give your body some fat to burn!!
                      It is always too early to quit.
                      Went primal- 02/25/12, height: 5'6", starting weight: 143.0, current weight: 133.8

                      "Doubt never stops. Neither do you."- Prove People Wrong.
                      http://www.provepeoplewrong.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm not sure what you mean when you say that we're "counting something as carbs." There's nothing subjective about measuring the carb amounts in foods - they're either there or they're not. Vegetables are predominantly made of carbs, but can have varying amounts of protein as well - mushrooms specifically contain quite a bit of protein for their caloric value. Avocados are vegetables but are predominantly composed of fat - yet they still contain carbs.

                        The fruits you're eating (specifically grapes and melon) are going to drive up your carb intake dramatically as they're almost solely carbs.

                        I'm not necessarily suggesting you cut your carbs if that's what keeps your mood up, but I'd definitely recommend calculating your daily caloric needs, and then figuring out how many grams of protein you should be getting based on your lean body mass. I imagine it will be less than what you're currently eating.

                        As far as fat, I'd absolutely recommend getting more per meal. It's really hard to divide things up into servings because one serving of two different foods is going to give you a vastly different nutritional breakdown. Without knowing your caloric requirements, I'd hesitantly advise you do do things like upping your avocado from 1/4 to a whole, or your olive oil from 1 tsp to 1 Tbsp. And leave the yolks in your eggs? If you can get your hands on coconut oil, I'd incorporate that too.

                        You mention not wanting to make your diet more complicated than it is, but I'd at least take the time to figure out your baselines for nutrient and caloric needs so you at least have something to go on. If you provide your age, height, weight, body fat % (if you know it), and activity level, I can calculate it for you. Otherwise, I'd start by adding fat at the very least. You may be feeling tired because you're simply not getting enough calories.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Are we seriously telling a highly active, very lean person that 148g of carbs is too much? That's within Mark's recommendations (and he actually suggests that some very active people might need a little more). Not everyone needs to be in ketosis 24/7, something that's also been discussed in the "eat moar fat" thread.

                          Yes, we don't need to buy into the CW idea that we are all fuelled on carbs all the time, but there's a range of carbs suggested on primal for a reason, since we all have different needs. For someone who's working out hard daily (and sometimes multiple times a day) and doesn't have a lot of time in between to replenish muscle glycogen via other means, then a moderate carb intake is sensible. You don't want to exceed your daily needs so that you can still burn fat as necessary, but not everyone needs to be sub-50g.

                          Going VLC exacerbated my depression symptoms, and I've found that incorporating a reasonable level carb (100-150g) from clean primal sources has helped that. You might consider including more sweet potatoes (or white potatoes if you tolerate them well), squashes, carrots, and other starchier vegetables as carb options instead of depending solely on fruit. You don't necessarily need to bump up that intake a lot, but some variety would be good and the GI of those foods may be better for you than grapes and melon.

                          What I see in your daily menu is simply not enough food to fuel that kind of day. Have you calculated how much you were eating on a more conventional diet as compared to now? I find it can be easy to undereat on paleo, and if you're that active and losing weight still (which it sounds like you are? 110 pounds at 5'6" is quite low for that height), you may simply not be eating enough food. Up the fats a bit--eat proper eggs instead of egg whites, enjoy more of that avocado, eat some higher fat meats--and see if that doesn't help the issue.
                          “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                          Owly's Journal

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Owly View Post
                            Are we seriously telling a highly active, very lean person that 148g of carbs is too much? That's within Mark's recommendations (and he actually suggests that some very active people might need a little more). Not everyone needs to be in ketosis 24/7, something that's also been discussed in the "eat moar fat" thread.
                            We aren't telling her it is too much - just too much relative to how much she is eating. 148g is great if she was eating more and it wasn't 50% of her caloric intake - that is a big share of her macros for a paleo diet
                            It is always too early to quit.
                            Went primal- 02/25/12, height: 5'6", starting weight: 143.0, current weight: 133.8

                            "Doubt never stops. Neither do you."- Prove People Wrong.
                            http://www.provepeoplewrong.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              so what you're saying...

                              I guess what the general theme is that I need to eat more fat in my meals...I have to say guys..I REALLY love fruit. I eat frozen grapes alot, I love em, totally addicted.

                              I'm wondering if more fat content will help my moods though. I don't know that I've ever been in ketosis...I'm not sure how I would even tell if that were the case. I will up my healthy fats and see if that makes a difference. I don't know that I'm eating all that much protein, a couple eggs at breakfast, 2oz at lunch and 4-6 oz at dinner? is that alot of lean protein?

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