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  • Diurnal Insulin Resistance Swings

    My morning fasting (14 hours) numbers are 88-90. If I eat 30 grams of carbs for breakfast from banana and Greek yogurt, my 1 hour postprandial increases to only 100. However, if I eat 30 grams of carbs from banana and Brussels sprouts for dinner (2:30pm), my 1 hour postprandial shoots up to 150 and takes 3 hours to drop below 120. I have read about diurnal cycles in insulin resistance but usually it is the opposite of my experience.

    Does anyone else have this experience? Should I eat all of my daily carbs at breakfast? My goal is to keep my BG below 140. Thanks.

  • #2
    To control your blood glucose, Dr. Richard Bernstein (of Diabetes Solution) recommends carbs at no more than 30g per DAY--and 6/12/12 for the three meals.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by emmie View Post
      To control your blood glucose, Dr. Richard Bernstein (of Diabetes Solution) recommends carbs at no more than 30g per DAY--and 6/12/12 for the three meals.
      The problem with a "one size fits all" recommendation like this is that we are all so different, apparently, in how our BG is regulated. Why would I limit carbs in the morning when it is when my body can best handle them? Everything I read says the biggest risk factor for CVD is how many hours per day your BG is above 140 which is when permanent damage occurs. I am also concerned about the long term effects of a VLC regimen. I want to keep my carbs around the 100 g/d maintenance level.
      Last edited by Artbuc; 09-03-2012, 05:23 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by emmie View Post
        To control your blood glucose, Dr. Richard Bernstein (of Diabetes Solution) recommends carbs at no more than 30g per DAY--and 6/12/12 for the three meals.
        I just watched a couple of Dr RB's lectures. He is truly one amazing dude! i now understand why his carb recommendation is so severe - his goal is normal BG before, during and after a meal. As a chemical engineer myself, I relate to his curiosity and meticulous self-examination. Becoming a doctor in his 40's so he would have cred is amazing. I am especially impressed with the breath-taking reversal in his lipid profile. I am not sure if a doctor would officially diagnose me T2 because my fasting numbers are good; but, my postprandials are horrible. I simply can not eat more than 15 gms carbs without having 1 hour BG exceed 140. Heck, i go above 140 (1 hr) after eating a bowl of broccoli and brussels spouts. Dr Bernstein explains this phenomenon when he says eating pebbles (distending intestine) will spike a diabetics BG. I don't like it, but I am slowly accepting the fact that I can not eat 75+ grams of carbs per day and the 6/12/12 looks like the right answer for me. I plan to follow this approach as well as I can and hope I get a big improvement in my lipid profile.
        Last edited by Artbuc; 09-05-2012, 02:51 AM.

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        • #5
          To know your BG peak, you have to test quite often, like every 15 minutes. And to compare your reaction you'd have to eat the same meal - not only the same amount of carbs, but literally the same meal.

          And to determine if your insulin resistance is physiological (from eating low carb) or pathological (from eating crap), you should know your fasting insulin.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Baba View Post
            To know your BG peak, you have to test quite often, like every 15 minutes. And to compare your reaction you'd have to eat the same meal - not only the same amount of carbs, but literally the same meal.

            And to determine if your insulin resistance is physiological (from eating low carb) or pathological (from eating crap), you should know your fasting insulin.
            By eating "crap", I assume you are referring to my pre-PB high carb days? I have binged on ice cream a couple times in the last few months, but my current spikes come almost entirely from brussel sprouts, broccoli, spinach, frozen strawberries, sweet potato and 90% dark chocolate.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Artbuc View Post
              I just watched a couple of Dr RB's lectures. He is truly one amazing dude! i now understand why his carb recommendation is so severe - his goal is normal BG before, during and after a meal. As a chemical engineer myself, I relate to his curiosity and meticulous self-examination. Becoming a doctor in his 40's so he would have cred is amazing. I am especially impressed with the breath-taking reversal in his lipid profile. I am not sure if a doctor would officially diagnose me T2 because my fasting numbers are good; but, my postprandials are horrible. I simply can not eat more than 15 gms carbs without having 1 hour BG exceed 140. Heck, i go above 140 (1 hr) after eating a bowl of broccoli and brussels spouts. Dr Bernstein explains this phenomenon when he says eating pebbles (distending intestine) will spike a diabetics BG. I don't like it, but I am slowly accepting the fact that I can not eat 75+ grams of carbs per day and the 6/12/12 looks like the right answer for me. I plan to follow this approach as well as I can and hope I get a big improvement in my lipid profile.
              Have you had an HbA1c test done? If not you might consider it. It gives you an average blood sugar level over 3 months.

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              • #8
                Artbuc-

                I'm glad you looked up Dr. Bernstein because he's the 'gold standard' when it comes to BG control, IMO. To allay your fears about eating 'too' low carb, I want you to know that I've been eating at approximate 20g carbs daily for almost 10 years--with nothing but positive results in my overall health.

                One reason I eat so few carbs is that I am extraordinarily sensitive to carbs, and my insulin shoots up dramatically at anything above 30g. However, I also try to follow Dr. Bernstein's advice about spreading out carbs throughout the day (6/12/12). I am not diabetic, but all my siblings are Type2, so I eat like a diabetic to avoid becoming one. My endo credits my low carb eating for the fact that I have not developed diabetes.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by emmie View Post
                  Artbuc-

                  I'm glad you looked up Dr. Bernstein because he's the 'gold standard' when it comes to BG control, IMO. To allay your fears about eating 'too' low carb, I want you to know that I've been eating at approximate 20g carbs daily for almost 10 years--with nothing but positive results in my overall health.

                  One reason I eat so few carbs is that I am extraordinarily sensitive to carbs, and my insulin shoots up dramatically at anything above 30g. However, I also try to follow Dr. Bernstein's advice about spreading out carbs throughout the day (6/12/12). I am not diabetic, but all my siblings are Type2, so I eat like a diabetic to avoid becoming one. My endo credits my low carb eating for the fact that I have not developed diabetes.
                  Thanks emmie. I shudder to think what I have done to myself over the last 5 decades of high carb eating, especially ice cream, cookies and other sweet stuff. I wonder how we can be so sensitive to carbs and not be T2? I do agree with the suggestion of getting my fasting insulin checked. I guess it is all moot if I just manage my carbs. I can tolerate them better in the morning so I will likely do 12/12/6. It would be impossible for me to maintain normal sugars postprandial without supplemental insulin so I do not have that goal. If I can keep my spikes below 140 and get back to baseline in 2-3 hours I will be happy.

                  PS when you say your insulin "shoots up" do you mean BG or are you actually getting your insulin levels checked?
                  Last edited by Artbuc; 09-05-2012, 03:20 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Artbuc View Post
                    By eating "crap", I assume you are referring to my pre-PB high carb days? I have binged on ice cream a couple times in the last few months, but my current spikes come almost entirely from brussel sprouts, broccoli, spinach, frozen strawberries, sweet potato and 90% dark chocolate.
                    In that case it's probably really a good idea to measure fasting insulin and HBA1C to find out where you stand.

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                    • #11
                      Artbuc-

                      I wasn't clear about 'my insulin shoots up.' I don't have it checked, but I go by how I feel. Let me offer some background--I was morbidly obese from about age 5, and it wasn't until my early 30s when Dr. Atkins first published (1972) that I understood where my insatiable hunger came from. I would eat a full dinner and be 'starving' within 30 min. Yes, I overate to maintain my morbidly obese body, but I never thought I had a choice--I was hungry.

                      Once I went low carb, that appetite diminished. I realized that it was the carbs that pushed up my insulin (my body overresponded?), and by staying low carb, I could manage to eat 'normally.'

                      So if I now go over 30g of carbs, that insatiable appetite will return almost instantly, and I will also become incredibly tired--and that's what I meant when I said that my 'insulin shoots up.' I feel the reaction. Sadly, those carbs can be from any source. I can even get the effect just eating green vegetables.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by emmie View Post
                        Artbuc-

                        I wasn't clear about 'my insulin shoots up.' I don't have it checked, but I go by how I feel. Let me offer some background--I was morbidly obese from about age 5, and it wasn't until my early 30s when Dr. Atkins first published (1972) that I understood where my insatiable hunger came from. I would eat a full dinner and be 'starving' within 30 min. Yes, I overate to maintain my morbidly obese body, but I never thought I had a choice--I was hungry.

                        Once I went low carb, that appetite diminished. I realized that it was the carbs that pushed up my insulin (my body overresponded?), and by staying low carb, I could manage to eat 'normally.'

                        So if I now go over 30g of carbs, that insatiable appetite will return almost instantly, and I will also become incredibly tired--and that's what I meant when I said that my 'insulin shoots up.' I feel the reaction. Sadly, those carbs can be from any source. I can even get the effect just eating green vegetables.

                        Emmie, do you regularly check your BG? Sounds like you are dealing with a satiety issue associated more with leptin than insulin. Have you considered leptin therapy? From what I read, leptin therapy will work on only about 100 people in the whole world. The best way to reduce leptin resistance is to reduce insulin resistance by doing exactly what you have been doing for 10 years. On my last lipid panel (a year ago, well before PB) my trigs had tripled but my PCP had a singular focus on my high TC and LDL-C. I bet there is a connection between my insulin resistance and high trigs. I am going to do my best to stay on a low carb diet for 6 months and get a lipid panel to check progress.

                        http://www.livestrong.com/article/45...in-resistance/
                        Last edited by Artbuc; 09-06-2012, 03:34 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Baba View Post
                          To know your BG peak, you have to test quite often, like every 15 minutes. And to compare your reaction you'd have to eat the same meal - not only the same amount of carbs, but literally the same meal.
                          To expand upon this a little more - it's not just the meal or the amount of carbs, but what you've eaten in the previous few meals, and recent exercise too:

                          1. Your glucose sensitivity/response is not just tied to the time of day/what you eat in your current meal, but also the state of your body's glycogen stores, which is dependent on what you've eaten the past couple meals, as well as any recent activity. If you've recently done glycogen-depleting activity, your body will be more prepared to handle the blood sugar than if you've been working at a desk all day. Likewise, if you haven't consumed much in the way of carbohydrate in previous meals, your glycogen stores will be lower, and your body will more readily store it instead of having a persistent higher level in the blood.

                          2. Ideally, test more than once - principally because of the above. Once you know that something happens consistently, that's a lot more useful and meaningful than seeing it happens once, and you'll have more confidence about what's really going on.

                          3. How ripe the banana is actually can have a significant impact on its blood sugar response - the ripening affects its glycemic index(i.e. its net impact on blood sugar for a "typical" person). Just another variable to be aware of when testing.
                          Last edited by jsa23; 09-06-2012, 03:34 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by emmie View Post
                            So if I now go over 30g of carbs, that insatiable appetite will return almost instantly, and I will also become incredibly tired--and that's what I meant when I said that my 'insulin shoots up.' I feel the reaction. Sadly, those carbs can be from any source. I can even get the effect just eating green vegetables.
                            That insatiable appetite is what clued me in to something being seriously wrong with me. It's like a miracle when I get my carbs really super low like 30g or so. I suddenly feel like a normal person. And like you, it doesn't matter if those carbs are sweet potatoes. I spent a half a year eating too many primal-approved healthy carbs and didn't get the same level of extraordinary health I feel on low carb. I don't use any kind of blood glucose meter, either. I just know from my experience, from trial and error, that I'm very sensitive to carbs.
                            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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