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  • I hear ya. I was just afraid of what I might be missing since when I was IFing and full most days on less than 1200. Adding in more fat has helped out with those numbers. I do eat all that stuff mentioned, and quite regularly (except for offal - that is once in awhile beef & chicken liver and chicken gizzards) so I am probably getting enough. Thanks!
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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    • Originally posted by Sabine View Post
      Cheffy- you didn't mention what you had eaten. I think that both primal eating and fasting can make your system more sensitive to the things that irritate it. You get a rest, and then if you eat something that disagrees with you (for whatever reason), your body is able to jump right on it.
      When I go off eating primally, I am always dismayed by how yucky I feel, and amazed that I used to feel this way all the time, but it was my 'normal', so I didn't even realize until I had a feeling of good health to compare it to.
      You might want to chart what you are eating and see if it is an ingredient that is bothering you.
      Originally posted by cheffy View Post
      Both times I at salad greens and meat, which is somewhat typical of my daily meal. I'll have to do a little experimenting and see if only certain foods cause it. Sounds pretty obvious but I never even thought of it haha, thanks Sabine!

      Cheffy - If I have salad and raw veggies after a fast, it tears right through me. Try protein and fat and re-introduce the raw veggies a bit more slowly to see if that works.
      Last edited by Piscator; 09-14-2012, 09:47 AM.

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      • Originally posted by Piscator View Post
        Cheffy - If I have salad and raw veggies after a fast, it tears right through me. Try protein and fat and re-introduce the raw veggies a bit more slowly to see if that works.
        Broke a 42 hour fast yesterday with a bacon fritatta and sour cream, no veggies no salad, no stomach troubles! It's crazy how sensitive your body can be after a fast. The fat and protein thing worked

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        • I'm just going on my own experience and sense of logic on this, but during a fast, you're body is living on fat stores. Seems reasonable that it would handle the introduction of external fat and protein better than raw vegetables.

          But then, I'm not a vegan living in denial...

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          • Originally posted by Piscator View Post
            I'm just going on my own experience and sense of logic on this, but during a fast, you're body is living on fat stores. Seems reasonable that it would handle the introduction of external fat and protein better than raw vegetables.

            But then, I'm not a vegan living in denial...
            Fat stores, defective cells & aberrant proteins (cysts & tumors anyone?).

            I did that 97.5 hr fast last week, now I've settled into a 2 day fast every 7 days, as that seems optimal to me as I do love to eat food, tending toward over-indulgement of my own dishes. Trying to eat less (slower & with more consciousness) & just be happy with that satisfied but not stuffed feeling, satiation. It seems to be working. For kicks, I've weighed myself almost every morning since I broke that fast, to see what my weight was gonna do after 4 days of fasting up down &/or back down. My intention is to gain weight, muscle. Ok so, I dunno if the CAFO meats & the small salad I ate Thursday night to break my fast caused it, or what, but I had the runs from Thursday til this morning & I weighed 142 lbs!! Whatever it was, it cleared my colon, hehe... For reference I wrestled @ 118 (age 14), 126 (age 15-16) & 132 (age 17) in high school. So for a brief moment there I weighed a mere 10 lbs more @ age 47 than I did @ 17, ahaha! Now I'm settled @ 147 & this feels like the new normal. For now....
            Last edited by Betorq; 09-14-2012, 02:54 PM.
            "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
            "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
            "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Betorq View Post
              Fat stores, defective cells & aberrant proteins (cysts & tumors anyone?).

              I did that 97.5 hr fast last week, now I've settled into a 2 day fast every 7 days, as that seems optimal to me as I do love to eat food, tending toward over-indulgement of my own dishes. Trying to eat less (slower & with more consciousness) & just be happy with that satisfied but not stuffed feeling, satiation. It seems to be working. For kicks, I've weighed myself almost every morning since I broke that fast, to see what my weight was gonna do after 4 days of fasting up down &/or back down. My intention is to gain weight, muscle. Ok so, I dunno if the CAFO meats & the small salad I ate Thursday night to break my fast caused it, or what, but I had the runs from Thursday til this morning & I weighed 142 lbs!! Whatever it was, it cleared my colon, hehe... For reference I wrestled @ , 118, 126 & 132 in high school, when I was 13-17. So for a brief moment there I weighed 10 lbs more @ age 47 than I did @ 17, ahaha! Now I'm settled @ 147 & this feels like the new normal. For now....
              Paul Jaminet of The Perfect Health Diet claims that 23 hours is the maximum one should fast... primarily because after that the body starts feeding off less 'junk protein' and breaks down useful protein (I'm assuming that is/includes muscle) and once we start eating again the body stops autophagy mode and spends energy to rebuild the valuable proteins. During this 'shut-down' (?) period the viruses and bacteria can proliferate and get hold of us and we might then get sick. He does recommend IFing everyday with an 8 hour window to eat as he states that autophagy occurs after 12 hours fasting.

              Two things, have you read anything that contradicts his 23 hours max for optimal fasting that is easily shared here? Second, perhaps (just a thought) that it was not only the CAFO meat but also the bacteria getting a window to proliferate that ... err ... cleaned you out?

              I ask because I'm really interested in testing a weekly 2-day fast test through Oct to see how it affects me. Makes sense, I feel, for me at this moment.
              SW: 243
              CW: 177
              Goal: Health

              Comment


              • Originally posted by KerryK View Post
                Paul Jaminet of The Perfect Health Diet claims that 23 hours is the maximum one should fast... primarily because after that the body starts feeding off less 'junk protein' and breaks down useful protein (I'm assuming that is/includes muscle) and once we start eating again the body stops autophagy mode and spends energy to rebuild the valuable proteins. During this 'shut-down' (?) period the viruses and bacteria can proliferate and get hold of us and we might then get sick. He does recommend IFing everyday with an 8 hour window to eat as he states that autophagy occurs after 12 hours fasting.

                Two things, have you read anything that contradicts his 23 hours max for optimal fasting that is easily shared here? Second, perhaps (just a thought) that it was not only the CAFO meat but also the bacteria getting a window to proliferate that ... err ... cleaned you out?

                I ask because I'm really interested in testing a weekly 2-day fast test through Oct to see how it affects me. Makes sense, I feel, for me at this moment.
                Yeah, I've read some but not all of Paul's stuff & not to sound arrogant but I don't really give it much credence, re his 'opinions' on fasting. Much of his other info is good though. For one, the body DOESN'T feed on its own muscles within 23 or 24 hours, not until outright starvation, after all the stored fat, tumors/cysts(made of protein/fats) & defective cells are eaten.

                There are much more imminent people who've studied & reported their findings on extended fasts & autophagy than Paul. His 'theories' just don't jive with the real fasting experts/scholars.

                Look back through this thread or others on MDA about fasting, it's pretty much all there...

                And yes I agree, the bacteria was most likely the culprit, hehe... It felt like a touch of dysentary, minus the cramps,headaches & nausea. All's well now, but it was a on-again-off-again 18 hour crapfest!
                Last edited by Betorq; 09-14-2012, 03:50 PM.
                "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                  Yeah, I've read some but not all of Paul's stuff & not to sound arrogant but I don't really give it much credence, re his 'opinions' on fasting. Much of his other info is good though. For one, the body DOESN'T feed on its own muscles within 23 or 24 hours, not until outright starvation, after all the stored fat, tumors/cysts(made of protein/fats) & defective cells are eaten.

                  There are much more imminent people who've studied & reported their findings on extended fasts & autophagy than Paul. His 'theories' just don't jive with the real fasting experts/scholars.

                  Look back through this thread or others on MDA about fasting, it's pretty much all there...

                  And yes I agree, the bacteria was most likely the culprit, hehe... It felt like a touch of dysentary, minus the cramps,headaches & nausea. All's well now, but it was a on-again-off-again 18 hour crapfest!
                  So you're saying that the reason I had stomach issues after a couple fasts was because of bacteria proliferating while I fasted?

                  Comment


                  • No, I'm saying I ''think'' it was a likely cause of my 'lil porcelain throne episode. I think it might have been the bacteria in the CAFO meats as much as anything... Who knows, it's all conjecture & it's past so I really don't care that much one way or another, as it was like a extreme unintended colonic that really cleaned me out.

                    But it is something for me to consider with more foresight: the timing of my weekly fasts, & which foods to break those fasts with...
                    Last edited by Betorq; 09-14-2012, 06:30 PM.
                    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                      No, I'm saying I ''think'' it was a likely cause of my 'lil porcelain throne episode. I think it might have been the bacteria in the CAFO meats as much as anything... Who knows, it's all conjecture & it's past so I really don't care that much one way or another, as it was like a extreme unintended colonic that really cleaned me out.

                      But it is something for me to consider with more foresight: the timing of my weekly fasts, & which foods to break those fasts with...
                      Ok just curious, I'm still learning about the science and theory behind IF and reading that was something new to me

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by KerryK View Post
                        Paul Jaminet of The Perfect Health Diet claims that 23 hours is the maximum one should fast... primarily because after that the body starts feeding off less 'junk protein' and breaks down useful protein (I'm assuming that is/includes muscle) and once we start eating again the body stops autophagy mode and spends energy to rebuild the valuable proteins. During this 'shut-down' (?) period the viruses and bacteria can proliferate and get hold of us and we might then get sick. He does recommend IFing everyday with an 8 hour window to eat as he states that autophagy occurs after 12 hours fasting.

                        Two things, have you read anything that contradicts his 23 hours max for optimal fasting that is easily shared here? Second, perhaps (just a thought) that it was not only the CAFO meat but also the bacteria getting a window to proliferate that ... err ... cleaned you out?

                        I ask because I'm really interested in testing a weekly 2-day fast test through Oct to see how it affects me. Makes sense, I feel, for me at this moment.
                        Jaminet also says you should be eating a lot of "safe starches". If you are doing that and still a sugar burner, fasting becomes more problematic.

                        Comment


                        • Ok, my fast last week, didnt go as planned. Last week was very frustrating. Calories were still in check, carbs were higher than normal, protein was where it should be, and fats were lower than normal. I did have some not primal things, and maybe that is what I am paying for even though calories were still okay. I have gained 4 lbs since Sept. 6

                          I was thinking of how I lost the majority of my weight, when I was CW dieting, so I thought I would see what higher carbs would do, but not nearly as high as when I was losing weight CW style. And I was still under calories. But I gained. Makes me almost feel like I am not losing it Primal way but also I can't go back to losing it CW style the way I was... uggghhh. Just so frustrating trying to figure myself out.

                          (Higher than normal carbs were still mostly under 100 net but one day was 116 and yesterday was 130. So that should still be losing or at least maintaining according to the curve)

                          I think okay, let's fast. And then I think, if I end up eating the same calories as in a whole day anyways, why torture myself. But it isnt always torture either, not for a fast 5 or a 24 hour one.

                          I am hoping my not so primal things this week have just caused a temporary gain. I dont see how it could be fat, but it is frustrating none the less, especially when I look back over the last few months. I did a parade for 4th of July, and thinking I would be much less for the next parade, which is today, and I am only 2 pounds lighter. uggghhh

                          Sorry to babble. Sometimes I really wish there was a One size Fits All in this game.
                          65lbs gone and counting!!

                          Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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                          • Wow! What a great thread!!

                            It took me a few hours, but I finally made it to the end. (followed a few links along the way.) I feel like a huge paradigm shift just happened for me, and I'm really looking forward to in incorporating more fasting into the mix.

                            I thought it was really interesting in the fasting documentary how it showed that the mice grew new brain cells when fasting. I wonder how this plays in with the autophagy/ketosis discussion that you all were having earlier. If humans can grow new brain cells like mice, do you think that you'd have to be on a strict water (perhaps pickle juice fast) or do you think that the body probably doesn't care if you add in the CO?

                            Thanks everyone for all the research you dug up while following along this path. It's been extremely helpful to read. A special thanks to Betorq, and a question. How do you end up with so much juice on your fements? I usually buy a kraut salad at the store, it's a moderately fermented cabbage salad with caraway seeds but there doesn't seem to be much liquid. . . . Guess I'd better make my own and start it off watery?

                            For those of you who are working, did you fast on work days? I did a 24 hour fast last week, no problem in the middle of the week. (I'm in ketosis already and the transition was seamless.) But I'm worried that if I go for multiple days, it might affect my work performance. Any thoughts anyone?

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                            • Originally posted by lissee View Post
                              Wow! What a great thread!!

                              It took me a few hours, but I finally made it to the end. (followed a few links along the way.) I feel like a huge paradigm shift just happened for me, and I'm really looking forward to in incorporating more fasting into the mix.

                              I thought it was really interesting in the fasting documentary how it showed that the mice grew new brain cells when fasting. I wonder how this plays in with the autophagy/ketosis discussion that you all were having earlier. If humans can grow new brain cells like mice, do you think that you'd have to be on a strict water (perhaps pickle juice fast) or do you think that the body probably doesn't care if you add in the CO?

                              Thanks everyone for all the research you dug up while following along this path. It's been extremely helpful to read. A special thanks to Betorq, and a question. How do you end up with so much juice on your fements? I usually buy a kraut salad at the store, it's a moderately fermented cabbage salad with caraway seeds but there doesn't seem to be much liquid. . . . Guess I'd better make my own and start it off watery?

                              For those of you who are working, did you fast on work days? I did a 24 hour fast last week, no problem in the middle of the week. (I'm in ketosis already and the transition was seamless.) But I'm worried that if I go for multiple days, it might affect my work performance. Any thoughts anyone?
                              That, as Hamlet would say, is the question. I don't think we really know the answer. I was just having some sauerkraut for lunch and noticing how little calories it has. In the BBC film, the narrator was kept to 50 calories a day of miso soup. I wonder if there is some magic to that number. You could eat a goodly bowl of kraut and not break 50.

                              As far as working goes, you do need to mind your electrolytes so as not to get lightheaded. I found that being in ketosis already when the fast began gave me much less of a first day "OMG if I don't get some food right now I'm going to die" feeling. I was hungry but it was very manageable.

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                              • Yal water with a little sea salt fixes alot of things, at least for me

                                As far as work performance, I was just reading last night, two brothers I think, athletes. One was, hmmm can't remember and the other was NFL maybe? And both do their sports (job) while in a fasted state. Somewhere, not sure if this thread, but some fella that won like an Iron Man race? or something? while VLCing, I guess he wasnt fasted, just low carb.
                                65lbs gone and counting!!

                                Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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