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  • Originally posted by Betorq View Post
    2 points favoring my argument: #1. I ferment my kimchis & sauerkrauts to the max, ie the fibres are softened from the conversion to fatty acids. Is that conversion total? I don't know. Are the simple sugars inherent in the veggies completely transformed? I can say without a doubt, YES! They are not tough membranes like the fibre, & they're the main food for the fermentation itself to happen. So sugar is gone, some, most or possibly all of the fibre is gone.(Will have to dig deeper on that question) #2. I only ate a spoonful, not a 1/4 cup. Mostly I drank the juices. Those pickle juices aren't at issue, agreed?
    We're both on the same page on that one. I'll do a tsp on a fast knowing I stay in ketosis & autophagy. I guess I was doing a heaping tsp of kraut last week...For now, any future fasts I do, I'll confine myself to pickle juice as my 1st go-t0-hunger-helper. Coconut oil would be if I need to feel full or I wanted some energy.
    Yes, that's an interesting question.
    No, I don't think the juice is a problem. It's mostly saltwater with perhaps a few stray probiotic organisms that might actually be helpful. Perhaps this is why your digestive system kept working on the fast while mine went offline.
    1.5 teaspoon of c-oil is 50 calories. I think that would be a good daily supplement limit I might use.

    Comment


    • Am @ 24 hours into my weekly 48 hour fast. Only water since last night's shrimp dinner. Only water today but read that my cod liver pills only have 10 calories each, but since they are gelatin, I abstained. Did mix in 2 probiotic capsules into a glass of filtered water this morning, my 'breakfast'. Been drinking only water today, had 1/2 cup of orange pekoe tea ie 'lunch'... Breaking the fast @ about the 49.5 hour mark tomorrow night. Am bringing my own BBQ sauce, coconut oil & olive oil/apple cider vin salad dressing to the dinner I help/volunteer @ every Wednesday night, for 12 step recovering people @ local church. We prepare a major feast & clean up afterwards for them every week. Last week I was still on that 4 day fast & I didn't partake of the baked chicken meal. This week ought to be pulled pork, a yummy way to end my fast, w/ extra coco fat & my own home-made LC BBQ sauce ! Since I'm a kitchen preparer & server, I'll double my portion of pork & make myself a small salad. Dats da plan stan!
      Last edited by Betorq; 09-11-2012, 02:51 PM.
      "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
      "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
      "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

      Comment


      • This article came up on the antioxidant thread but could be very relevant to us fasters as well.

        Antioxidants block cell repair

        The gist of it is that antioxidants block autophagy. Everyone takes them to block cell damage they also seem to block the removal and disposal of dead cells, autophagy. Those of us who take supplements might want to consider suspending them during a fast.

        Interesting article with some more links about autophagy to explore.

        Comment


        • Interesting read. Links too. Thanks for that.

          I suspended Vit C & all other antioxidants a year ago this month, after a trusted friend/supplement formulator told me that there were reliable studies showing they weren't good for you in certain/many ways. I dabbled on & off w/ vit C, E & Alpha Lipoic Acid for some years. I do eat chlorella, whey & other super foods, high in certain antioxidants & vitamins. Foods vs pills & powders.
          "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
          "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
          "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
            Those of us who take supplements might want to consider suspending them during a fast.
            Originally posted by Betorq View Post
            I suspended Vit C & all other antioxidants a year ago this month, after a trusted friend/supplement formulator told me that there were reliable studies showing they weren't good for you in certain/many ways.
            I could save alot of money each month.
            65lbs gone and counting!!

            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              So I went Link Hopping from that link, and landed on this

              Trehalose, autophagy, and brain repair: Sweet

              65lbs gone and counting!!

              Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

              Comment


              • Yes there were some interesting hops from that one article.

                But anytime the subject of fasting comes up, well meaning people always caution you to be sure to take your vitamins. Well, maybe not. Then there is the question of if ANY antioxidants including things like green tea could be a problem on a fast or if it is just supplements.

                Comment


                • WARNING
                  The below statement is kinda gross



                  Anyway,
                  This was my first major fast, and when I ate, (just gonna be blunt), I had diarrhea. It wasn't the bad kind of diarrhea where my stomach hurt, my stomach was very active.

                  So anyway, is this normal for a fast? I do daily 16-24 hour fasts, and lately I've noticed this has been happening as well. Just wondering if anybody else experiences this. If this isn't normal, any ideas what it could be? Thank for any info and please excuse the nastiness haha

                  Comment


                  • I finished my latest fast earlier today. 82 hours in total, so i am pleased. This longer one was much easier than last week's 60 h fast. Dropped 5 lbs in that time. I will probably aim for a 3.5 day fast once a month, along with a limited daily feeding window. Overall , it has been a great experience, and it saves a lot of money

                    Comment


                    • Cheffy- you didn't mention what you had eaten. I think that both primal eating and fasting can make your system more sensitive to the things that irritate it. You get a rest, and then if you eat something that disagrees with you (for whatever reason), your body is able to jump right on it.
                      When I go off eating primally, I am always dismayed by how yucky I feel, and amazed that I used to feel this way all the time, but it was my 'normal', so I didn't even realize until I had a feeling of good health to compare it to.
                      You might want to chart what you are eating and see if it is an ingredient that is bothering you.

                      Comment


                      • OK, I *have* to chime in here to thank everyone for this fascinating, fascinating thread! I've been interested in autophagy & fasting for a while now, and this thread is fabulous. I've never been able to fast before and am in day 2.5 of a 3.5 fast.
                        I wish I could post some questions, but to be honest I keep writing them and erasing them. Ah well, maybe another time. So suffice it to say that I'm getting a lot of good 'food for thought' here (HA!)

                        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        This article came up on the antioxidant thread but could be very relevant to us fasters as well.

                        Antioxidants block cell repair

                        The gist of it is that antioxidants block autophagy. Everyone takes them to block cell damage they also seem to block the removal and disposal of dead cells, autophagy. Those of us who take supplements might want to consider suspending them during a fast.

                        Interesting article with some more links about autophagy to explore.
                        Very interesting, indeed! Ties in with what I've been hearing. For those that take supplements, I've often read that one should take a break every so often anyway... either a day or two a week or a week every month or two. And many supplements are really only supposed to be taken for a few months, but many folk don't realize that.

                        Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                        Interesting read. Links too. Thanks for that.

                        I suspended Vit C & all other antioxidants a year ago this month, after a trusted friend/supplement formulator told me that there were reliable studies showing they weren't good for you in certain/many ways. I dabbled on & off w/ vit C, E & Alpha Lipoic Acid for some years. I do eat chlorella, whey & other super foods, high in certain antioxidants & vitamins. Foods vs pills & powders.
                        For those of us who do not eat a lot of calories, even when what we do eat is as high a quality as possible, I wonder though if certain supplements aren't beneficial if taken, say, 4-5 days a week. Especially if one has not yet reached an optimal level of health. You might not be able to share the studies if they're private, but I'm really interested in reading about the findings that convinced you, if you're able to point me in the right direction...
                        SW: 243
                        CW: 177
                        Goal: Health

                        Comment


                        • I don't take supplements at all. I do eat and drink some things meant to help supply extra concentrations of nutrients such as liver, bone marrow and broth, wheatgrass juice, acai berry puree (not the dried stuff in a capsule, the real berries), mineral water, etc. But i consider these to be a part of my diet , not supplements.

                          I really think a lot of people screw themselves up when they supplement, trying to correct a deficit (real or read about on the internet) in one vitamin or mineral, they take a megadose of which can be toxic or also can disturb the balance between several areas. We really don't know enough yet about the interactions between all these things to go messing around like this.

                          When the nutrition comes packaged for the body to use in foods and drinks, it is just about impossible to mess things up. The absorption occurs along with digestion, gradually, instead of all in one encapsulated plop.

                          The only time I feel supplementation has any benefit is when a real deficit has actually been diagnosed in a particular thing. Not just the latest supplement craze of the month on the blogs.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            I don't take supplements at all.
                            I know I over do it. If I hear something might be good, I order it. CoQ10, Garlic, Apple Cider Vinegar, Apple Pectin....

                            I was watching carbs so not eating fruit - or much, so I thought things like apple pectin, blueberries, etc would be beneficial.

                            I also take the main ones I hear about, like fish oil, magnesium, probiatics, sea kelp, daily multi-vit., etc. Mostly because I don't know how much I am getting in my food, so I didnt want to take any chances. I dont take as many on fast days, because they need to be taken with food.

                            I spend about 50 - $100 a month. It would be nice to stop or cut back but I don't know which ones.
                            65lbs gone and counting!!

                            Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sabine View Post
                              Cheffy- you didn't mention what you had eaten. I think that both primal eating and fasting can make your system more sensitive to the things that irritate it. You get a rest, and then if you eat something that disagrees with you (for whatever reason), your body is able to jump right on it.
                              When I go off eating primally, I am always dismayed by how yucky I feel, and amazed that I used to feel this way all the time, but it was my 'normal', so I didn't even realize until I had a feeling of good health to compare it to.
                              You might want to chart what you are eating and see if it is an ingredient that is bothering you.
                              Both times I at salad greens and meat, which is somewhat typical of my daily meal. I'll have to do a little experimenting and see if only certain foods cause it. Sounds pretty obvious but I never even thought of it haha, thanks Sabine!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                                I know I over do it. If I hear something might be good, I order it. CoQ10, Garlic, Apple Cider Vinegar, Apple Pectin....

                                I was watching carbs so not eating fruit - or much, so I thought things like apple pectin, blueberries, etc would be beneficial.

                                I also take the main ones I hear about, like fish oil, magnesium, probiatics, sea kelp, daily multi-vit., etc. Mostly because I don't know how much I am getting in my food, so I didnt want to take any chances. I dont take as many on fast days, because they need to be taken with food.

                                I spend about 50 - $100 a month. It would be nice to stop or cut back but I don't know which ones.
                                Spend that money on some good quality foods. Like buy the grass fed instead of the CAFO and buy the free range eggs. If you make bone broth, eat offal and regular meat, eat some good leafy veggies like kale and spinach, eat some fish (tastier than a fish oil capsule) and some good fats, you are going to have more vitamins and minerals in your system than you need. All those pills are just making expensive pee.
                                Last edited by Paleobird; 09-12-2012, 07:17 PM.

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