Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fasting Challenge Next Week

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I've been waiting around all day and wondering if I would get hungry but I didn't. I finally ate a few oz of cheese and a handful of pine nuts just now more because it sounded tasty than actual hunger. It was only about 600 calories but I really don't feel like eating anything else. Weird. Off to bed.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Piscator View Post
      Betorq - MAS talks about autophagy and ketosis, but seems to then focus only on ketosis to the point of making it seem as if they are the same. As I mentioned earlier, I had read somewhere that even coffee interrupts autophagy. Being in ketosis and working on weight loss is one thing. Autophagy is a separate condition from ketosis and seems to be a major benefit of fasting - especially relating to life extension benefits, reducing seizures, etc. Just because he is still in ketosis, doesn't mean his body is still in the autophagy stage, so I'm not sold on the "no hunger IF method". If fat loss is the only goal, sure. But to realize the other benefits of fasting, we may need to be more strict.
      Caffeine from coffee I'll give you that one. I think this issue of halting autophagy whilst staying in ketosis ala consumption of small quantities of fermented-already-low-carb-veggies deserves further deconstruction absent of our theorizing. Will get back to you on the subject once I've dug deeper...Do we at least agree that pickle juice would NOT kick one out of autophagy as it contains no fat, protein & negligible calories? Do you believe autophagy is protein & carb dependent, not fat dependent? That might be a starting point of discussion going forward...
      "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
      "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
      "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

      Comment


      • I'm finding your lack of hunger after the end of the fast very interesting. Mostly because it seems to be lasting for so long. I wonder if it is a side-effect of you already being in such solid ketosis/being fat-adapted before you started.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
          But, I think I need to cut the calcium supplements. Not really necessary, right? And could be causing some plumbing issues?
          I didnt take my calcium last night, so I don't know if it is too soon or if this is why, but I don't have to call a plumber.
          65lbs gone and counting!!

          Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sabine View Post
            I'm finding your lack of hunger after the end of the fast very interesting. Mostly because it seems to be lasting for so long. I wonder if it is a side-effect of you already being in such solid ketosis/being fat-adapted before you started.
            Yep. It's really strange and again this morning I'm just not hungry. I've never ended a fast before where I didn't feel like chomping down the whole fridge for a few days afterwards.

            Comment


            • Yes very interesting.

              I am going another 48. Might go for 72, will just see how it goes. But I am not sure when I want to start though.
              65lbs gone and counting!!

              Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

              Comment


              • Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                I didnt take my calcium last night, so I don't know if it is too soon or if this is why, but I don't have to call a plumber.
                Funny you mention that, coz I was just going to comment on the state of my plumbing about 36 hours after I ended my 100 hour fast/cleanse. I've been visiting the throne room quite a bit this morning, twice in fact with results on par to my former CW high fiber diet days...

                I suspect fasting on the pickle juice, & a few intermittent bites of fully fermented soft sauerkraut has really revved up my gut flora. What little bit of gas I had pre-fasting has evaporated the past couple of days. Even on high fat PB, pre-fasting, I was still mildly gassy some days, though nothing like on my CW WOE days. I ate pretty clean except for indiscriminate consumption of meat, dairy, veggies like now but of course with all the grains, beans, nuts & on again off again ventures with "organic sweets". Now I'm rarely eating nuts at all, no grains, & living here in the deep south I'm eating beans maybe 2-3x a month (they are tasty: well cooked w/ bacon). Beans have never caused me gas, but other foods have & still do. Ok, maybe its TMI, but I'm done sharing that intestinal stuff...

                And btw fwiw, Piscator, I lost a total of 1 lb given that I'm now eating/drinking & exercising normally again & even just after the fast itself I had only lost just over 3 lbs in total. So I'm not retaining much water. Weight loss has not been a PB goal for me for a long time: quality of life/health, body sculpting, strength, endurance & longevity are my goals.

                I'm still looking into what does & doesn't kick one out of autophagy during a fast. I suspect it depends on the individual's condition & possibly even their constitution to a degree. As PaleoBird's fat-adapted lean body's autophagy is going to be different on a fast than a newbies with metabolic/endocrine issues. That's my theory only, nothing concrete to back it up (yet). I don't mind being wrong, its all good...
                Will report my findings & my interpretations of them sometime tonight or Monday at the latest...
                Last edited by Betorq; 09-09-2012, 11:10 AM.
                "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                  'm eating beans maybe 2-3x a month (they are tasty: well cooked w/ bacon). Beans have never caused me gas, but other foods have & still do.
                  We only had them once in a blue moon also, until I started to "diet CW way" and then I would have some most daily. Couple times a day even. And then when I found primal and they were off limits, then I found I wanted them.
                  65lbs gone and counting!!

                  Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                    Caffeine from coffee I'll give you that one. I think this issue of halting autophagy whilst staying in ketosis ala consumption of small quantities of fermented-already-low-carb-veggies deserves further deconstruction absent of our theorizing. Will get back to you on the subject once I've dug deeper...Do we at least agree that pickle juice would NOT kick one out of autophagy as it contains no fat, protein & negligible calories? Do you believe autophagy is protein & carb dependent, not fat dependent? That might be a starting point of discussion going forward...

                    I'm not able to agree about the pickle juice, or anything for that matter as I really don't know enough about autophagy. My first extended fast was to kick in some additional weight loss, so although I'd read about autophagy, it wasn't much of a concern. Additional fasting is to keep my weight in-check, but I'd also like to realize any additional benefits. I'll try to look into it some more as well, but I'm at a trade-show this week, so may not have time for a while. The hunger has not been overwhelming for me, so I don't feel the need to use kraut or juice, but would still like to know more - yes, it would be nice to have the option of a little kraut juice boost during a fast. Anxious to hear what you learn Betorq.

                    Comment


                    • Anyone doing a longer fast this week?

                      Last week a did a 60 hour one which was double my previous longest. I felt OK, but didn't really enjoy the feeling.

                      However, I started another one this week and I am at 48 hours already and I feel great. It seems SO much easier this week. From time to time the stomach grumbles but usually this feeling passes in a minute.

                      Last week, I drank some bone broth once (50 kcal). But this time I've had zero caloric intake so far. I'm really pleasantly surprised.

                      Comment


                      • Morning!
                        After things settled, I have a 3# net loss~ feels good. I'm going to continue with Fast-5 and probably alternate that with 24hr. fasts~ it's not that difficult to take it 4 or so more hours~ keeping it below 50 carbs. Give my body a week or two to stabilize and then do a few weeks of 2 or so 48hr. fasts a week. Basically, that's fasting Mon, Wed and sometimes Friday. Eating normally (for me, Fast-5) on Tues, Thurs, and the weekend. Gets the pounds off fast and doesn't really interfere with life.

                        Yes, I know, fasting for weight loss but like I said, I want by body back for my birthday and this is the easiest way I know to do it.

                        Comment


                        • I am hoping to do a 20 hr fast today, with broth, and another fast from Tuesday night till Thursday morning. I did not decide yet if I would drink broth on Wednesday.
                          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by gmatt View Post
                            Anyone doing a longer fast this week? Last week a did a 60 hour one which was double my previous longest. I felt OK, but didn't really enjoy the feeling. However, I started another one this week and I am at 48 hours already and I feel great. It seems SO much easier this week. From time to time the stomach grumbles but usually this feeling passes in a minute. Last week, I drank some bone broth once (50 kcal). But this time I've had zero caloric intake so far. I'm really pleasantly surprised.
                            My intention is to do a 48 hr fast every 7 day week. I had a low cal/fat/protein smoothie @ 10am this morning, & have been IFing since on water, & will eat a fatty meal, low protein VLC dinner this evening & then not break the fast til 48-50 hrs later, Wed evening. Right now I'm in a donation center about to give plasma for the 1st time!
                            "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                            "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                            "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Betorq View Post
                              Right now I'm in a donation center about to give plasma for the 1st time!
                              Good for you!

                              I will go, let's see, how about I start tonight after dinner. Go for a 48.
                              65lbs gone and counting!!

                              Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Piscator View Post
                                I'm not able to agree about the pickle juice, or anything for that matter as I really don't know enough about autophagy. My first extended fast was to kick in some additional weight loss, so although I'd read about autophagy, it wasn't much of a concern. Additional fasting is to keep my weight in-check, but I'd also like to realize any additional benefits. I'll try to look into it some more as well, but I'm at a trade-show this week, so may not have time for a while. The hunger has not been overwhelming for me, so I don't feel the need to use kraut or juice, but would still like to know more - yes, it would be nice to have the option of a little kraut juice boost during a fast. Anxious to hear what you learn Betorq.
                                The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D. Ketosis cleans our cells

                                Ketosis cleans our cells
                                27 February 2006

                                In going through and catching up on all the online issues of Science, I finally reached the most current issue, which contains an article of interest. Originally published in 1970 in the journal Nature, this article was featured in the current issue of Sage KE, an anti-aging supplement to Science, as a blast from the past in their Classic Papers section. The paper was the first to show that the accumulation of non-functional, or junk, proteins play a role in the aging process. This article caught my eye because of another I had read recently and had touched upon in a previous post.


                                Anti-aging scientists are now pretty sure that one of the forces behind the aging and senescence process is the junk protein matter that accumulates in the cells, hampering cellular function. If the junk builds up enough, it basically crowds out the working part of the cell, killing the cell off in the process. As this inexorable process proceeds, more and more cells function less and less well until we, as a being, cease to function. There are other processes driving the aging function besides this accumulation of cellular debris, but if we can make some headway with cleaning out the junk, then we should be able to make the cells, and by extension us, function better for longer.


                                We have little chemically-operated waste disposal systems in our cells called lysosomes. Cellular debris that gets hauled to the lysosomes and dumped in gets degraded into individual amino acids, which are released into the circulation and used to re-synthesize other, functional, proteins. The process of transporting the junk proteins to the lysosomes is handled by enzymes designed for that purpose found within the cells. As long as the enzymes are working up to snuff, the junk doesn’t accumulate. But as the Nature paper shows, the aging process takes its toll. Random errors in protein synthesis of these enzymes due to the aging process means that some end up being functional while others aren’t. The non-functional enzymes then not only don’t help haul the junk to the lysosomes, they themselves become junk. It’s easy to see what’s going to happen as time marches on.


                                But how can we slow this process and de-junk our cells?

                                Stay in ketoses a lot of the time. How do we stay in ketosis? By following a low-carbohydrate diet.

                                How does ketosis help us de-junk our cells?


                                A paper was published in the Journal of Biological Chemistry last year that tells the story. Ketones stimulate the process of chaperone-mediated autophagy (CMA). What is CMA? It is
                                a cellular process that allows cells to remove proteins, organelles, and foreign bodies from the cytosol [the watery interior of the cell] and deliver them to the lysosomes for degradation.

                                Why would the body be designed for ketones to stimulate CMA? Simple. Ketosis is one of the signs of long term starvation. Ketones are produced throughout the day and are perfectly normal, but sustained ketosis takes place during starvation and sends a message that the body needs to conserve both glucose and protein. The body begins to conserve glucose by signaling to many of the organs and tissues to start using ketones for energy instead of glucose. The body conserves protein by decreasing its use of glucose because in the absence of dietary carbohydrate (as in starvation) the body makes glucose out of protein. Conserving glucose by switching to ketones allows the body can preserve its protein stores. The other thing the body can do is to make sure that the protein it does break down to use for glucose formation comes from non-essential sources. What more non-essential source can we have than useless junk proteins floating around in the cells?


                                The ketones themselves stimulate the process of CMA to salvage all the junk protein to be used for glucose conversion. Ain’t nature great?


                                Now, all we have to do to slow the aging process is to stay in some degree of ketosis most of the time and let nature take her course and clean all the junk out of our cellular attics. How do we do that? Easy. Keep our carbohydrate intake at (or preferably below) 100 grams or so per day. Why that particular number? Let’s figure.


                                It takes about 200 grams of carbohydrate per day to provide glucose for all the structures in the body that require it. After a period of low-carbohydrate intake or starvation that amount required drops to about 130 grams per day because about 70 grams are replaced by ketones. We never really get below that because certain cells can’t convert totally to ketone use and continue to require some glucose. For instance, the red blood cells must use glucose for energy as do some cells in the kidneys and the brain and central nervous system. But not to worry, the liver can easily make 200 plus grams of sugar per day to ensure that these tissues get all they need. But the liver makes most of this glucose via a process called gluconeogenesis (the generation of ‘new’ glucose) out of protein.


                                So, if we decrease our carbohydrate intake to below, say, 50 grams per day, the amount advised in Protein Power and other enlightened books on carb restriction, we’re in a deficit to the tune of about 150 grams per day. No problema. The liver makes up the deficit out of protein. As we start making ketones to replace the glucose, the deficit drops to about 80 grams per day, which the liver can easily provide. But here is the neat part. Most of the glucose the liver makes won’t really come from protein from our tissues; it will come from the protein we eat. We’re not starving; we’re eating a high-protein diet. So we have plenty of protein to make glucose as we need it without robbing our muscles and other protein tissues that would get pillaged were we really starving.


                                But, deep in the bowels of our cells this fact is unknown. All the cells know is that ketones are all over the place, which is the signal to start the CMA process to break up junk protein.


                                We end up losing body fat, which is both burned for energy and converted to ketones to replace glucose, while at the same time we maintain our needed protein structures because we’re eating protein, and we de-gunk our cells. All while eating steak and eggs and lambchops and ham and…


                                It just one more reason the low-carb diet rules.
                                "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                                "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                                "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X